Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: Good news! There are no talented photographers - Robert Poole

  1. #1
    robertmpoole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Bolton, UK
    Posts
    53
    Real Name
    Robert Poole

    Good news! There are no talented photographers - Robert Poole

    I've been doing some research on talent and mindset. Here are my musings!

    Good news! There are no talented photographers - Robert Poole

    http://robertpoolephotography.com/20...hers/#more-231

  2. #2
    Round Tuit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,341
    Real Name
    André

    re: Good news! There are no talented photographers - Robert Poole

    Robert,

    To those people who claim that you can accomplish anything if you try hard enough...

    I say: find me a 5 foot tall basketball player in the NBA.

    Andre

  3. #3
    robertmpoole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Bolton, UK
    Posts
    53
    Real Name
    Robert Poole

    re: Good news! There are no talented photographers - Robert Poole

    Quote Originally Posted by Round Tuit View Post
    Robert,

    To those people who claim that you can accomplish anything if you try hard enough...

    I say: find me a 5 foot tall basketball player in the NBA.

    Andre
    Not quite but...

    Muggsy Bogues

    At 5 feet, 3 inches, Tyrone*Bogues, better known as*Muggsy Bogues, holds the record as the shortest player in NBA history. He was drafted by the Washington Bullets in 1987.

  4. #4

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    SE Michigan
    Posts
    4,511
    Real Name
    wm c boyer

    re: Good news! There are no talented photographers - Robert Poole

    There are no rules without exceptions.

  5. #5
    robertmpoole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Bolton, UK
    Posts
    53
    Real Name
    Robert Poole

    re: Good news! There are no talented photographers - Robert Poole

    I think the problem is an over simplification, probably on my part. Of course in sport there are going to be biological/genetic advantages. A 7" tall baskeball player will have an advantage over our plucky 5'3" Muggsy Bogues the shortest ever NBA player. The point MG is making is that "natural ability requires a huge investment of time in order to be made manifest." so, no, not just hard work, grit and determination but we can all build on our natural talents/intelligence and abilities by having the right mindset.

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Australia (East Coast)
    Posts
    4,524
    Real Name
    Greg

    re: Good news! There are no talented photographers - Robert Poole

    Quote Originally Posted by robertmpoole View Post
    A 7" tall basketball player will have an advantage ....
    I think at 5'3", Muggsy would be towering over him.

  7. #7
    robertmpoole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Bolton, UK
    Posts
    53
    Real Name
    Robert Poole

    re: Good news! There are no talented photographers - Robert Poole

    Quote Originally Posted by FootLoose View Post
    I think at 5'3", Muggsy would be towering over him.
    Ha! You're quite right there!

  8. #8
    MrB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Hertfordshire, England
    Posts
    1,437
    Real Name
    Philip

    re: Good news! There are no talented photographers - Robert Poole

    Quote Originally Posted by chauncey View Post
    There are no rules without exceptions.
    If that is a rule, does it declare itself to be untrue?

    Cheers.
    Philip

  9. #9
    Moderator Manfred M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    22,226
    Real Name
    Manfred Mueller

    re: Good news! There are no talented photographers - Robert Poole

    I haven't read any of Gweck's work, but her premise is not particularly surprising. Some people are risk averse and others are enjoy challenges and understand that there will be failures along the way. On the other hand, Malcolm Gladwell's book (which I have read) has been thoroughly discredited; there is nothing magic about 10000 hours - some skills take more time and other less time to master.

    The bottom line is that it takes time to become proficient at something and you will make mistakes along the way (or at least you might think they are mistakes at the time). I firmly believe you can teach anyone who has the interest, to become a very competent photographer, but that will by no means mean that they will be the next Annie Leibowitz.

    In conclusion, I'll have to disagree with your headline; there are indeed talented photographers; but they also had to work hard to get there. There are also talented photographers that are their own worst enemy, and through either a lack of drive or some other skill, will never reach the heights that they are capable of.

  10. #10
    robertmpoole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Bolton, UK
    Posts
    53
    Real Name
    Robert Poole

    re: Good news! There are no talented photographers - Robert Poole

    Quote Originally Posted by GrumpyDiver View Post
    I haven't read any of Gweck's work, but her premise is not particularly surprising. Some people are risk averse and others are enjoy challenges and understand that there will be failures along the way. On the other hand, Malcolm Gladwell's book (which I have read) has been thoroughly discredited; there is nothing magic about 10000 hours - some skills take more time and other less time to master.

    The bottom line is that it takes time to become proficient at something and you will make mistakes along the way (or at least you might think they are mistakes at the time). I firmly believe you can teach anyone who has the interest, to become a very competent photographer, but that will by no means mean that they will be the next Annie Leibowitz.

    In conclusion, I'll have to disagree with your headline; there are indeed talented photographers; but they also had to work hard to get there. There are also talented photographers that are their own worst enemy, and through either a lack of drive or some other skill, will never reach the heights that they are capable of.
    My headline was perhaps a bit provocative

  11. #11
    Moderator Manfred M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    22,226
    Real Name
    Manfred Mueller

    re: Good news! There are no talented photographers - Robert Poole

    Quote Originally Posted by chauncey View Post
    There are no rules without exceptions.
    While this may be true for photography, I'd suggest it's not correct for fields like math, chemistry and physics.

  12. #12
    Moderator Manfred M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    22,226
    Real Name
    Manfred Mueller

    re: Good news! There are no talented photographers - Robert Poole

    Quote Originally Posted by robertmpoole View Post
    My headline was perhaps a bit provocative
    But no doubt, you did that on purpose.

  13. #13
    robertmpoole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Bolton, UK
    Posts
    53
    Real Name
    Robert Poole

    re: Good news! There are no talented photographers - Robert Poole

    Quote Originally Posted by GrumpyDiver View Post
    But no doubt, you did that on purpose.
    As our American cousins say, "I'll plead the fifth"

  14. #14
    rpcrowe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Southern California, USA
    Posts
    17,404
    Real Name
    Richard

    Re: Good news! There are no talented photographers - Robert Poole

    I disagree with the premise that "There are no talented photographers"...

    I have known people who, from the first time they picked up a camera shot very good to excellent imagery and needed only a bit of training to help them bring their technical skills up to the level of their artistic talent.

    On the other hand, I have known many photographers who were the beneficiaries of extensive training (Such as graduation from the U.S. Naval School of Photography at Naval Air Station Pensacola, Florida), and who had virtually unlimited resources in the days of film (the Navy was generally very generous with us using their film for training purposes) with many of these trained and experienced photographers never evolving to anything greater than technical proficiency.

    People of today have had a far greater exposure to imagery than I had in my formative years. Video, cinema, the proliferation of print magazines publishing imagery all have exposed today's aspiring photographer to literally millions of images. However, it is my opinion that many people just look at these images and never "see" them. Additionally, IMO, many people could care less about the quality of imagery. Content is all that they are concerned with.

    Finally, studies have indicated that people view images in different ways. As an example, there was a study done with eye scans on how engineering students view images vs. how art students view those same images. The trace of the eyes over the images are totally different with (if I remember correctly) the engineering students gazing all over the image equally and not honing in on any one center of interest while art students tend to concentrate on certain important points of any image...

  15. #15
    Moderator Manfred M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    22,226
    Real Name
    Manfred Mueller

    Re: Good news! There are no talented photographers - Robert Poole

    Quote Originally Posted by rpcrowe View Post
    Finally, studies have indicated that people view images in different ways. As an example, there was a study done with eye scans on how engineering students view images vs. how art students view those same images. The trace of the eyes over the images are totally different with (if I remember correctly) the engineering students gazing all over the image equally and not honing in on any one center of interest while art students tend to concentrate on certain important points of any image...
    I would be very interested in seeing the studies you mention; being both an engineer and photographer.

    That being said, one of the first things that engineering students were taught on the first day of classes was to understand the big-picture view before diving into the minutia of solving a technical problem. There was a great deal of emphasis on "problem identification", i.e. making sure that we were actually solving the right problem.

    Of course, I would have liked to see a follow up study to see whether the engineers or the arts students produced better photographs. The fact that we analyze things differently likely has little or no bearing on the quality of work that we end up producing.

  16. #16
    rpcrowe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Southern California, USA
    Posts
    17,404
    Real Name
    Richard

    Re: Good news! There are no talented photographers - Robert Poole

    I am not at all claiming that one way to look at an image is any better than another way, or even that the engineering student's eye tracking was inferior to the art student. Or even that the art student might be the better photographer. I am just saying that there are different ways that people look at images.

    What I do think would be significant is a person's dedication to or desire to produce good images. I know that there are people who could care less about the quality of an image. An example is my sister-in-law who will oooh! and aaah! over an image of one of her grand kids, as long as the kid is barely somewhat recognizable in the image. However, she looks at the best images that don't include a grand kiddie and simply has no interest in it whatsoever!

    Do you think that a person with that mindset would ever produce good images. My answer is that so far she hasn't and she's well over 60 years old...

  17. #17

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Nelson New Zealand
    Posts
    69
    Real Name
    Barry Doig

    Re: Good news! There are no talented photographers - Robert Poole

    There are no five foot tall rugby players in the All Blacks
    Barry from New Zealand

  18. #18
    pnodrog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Nomadic but not homeless, ex N.Z. now Aust.
    Posts
    4,154
    Real Name
    Paul

    Re: Good news! There are no talented photographers - Robert Poole

    Quote Originally Posted by barrydoig View Post
    There are no five foot tall rugby players in the All Blacks
    Barry from New Zealand
    I bumped into Michael Jones in a super market a few years ago and he seemed to be about five foot across, does that count?...

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •