Graduated ND Filters

[joebranko]

I am thinking of purchasing a graduated ND filter for my camera. Since I take mostly landscapes and love to do sunsets, should I be looking at hard or soft edge?
Appreciate your comments/advice.

[William W]

Typically using what lens on what camera and what orientation?

The key question being, what will be the typical VERTICAL Field of View?

That's important, because the NARROWER the VERTICAL FoV (i.e. when using WA and UWA Lenses in LANDSCAPE ORIENTATION) then there will be a steeper and more aggressive transition of highlight to shadow across a smaller (vertical) area of the scene.

That stated and as a general rule: a softer transition is usually better for most Sunsets for most Moderately Wide (but not Ultra Wide) to Normal to Telephoto Focal Lengths used in LANDSCAPE Orientation.

WW

[Manfred M]

In addition to what Bill has written, hard grads tend to be better when the horizon is fairly distinct and soft tend to be better when it is not. If you are shooting across water or flat areas (shooting the wheat fields in the Prairies) hard grads work well. If you are shooting just about anything else, soft grads tend to work best, in my experience.

The next question would be - rectangular or round. Here I would strongly urge you to look at the rectangular ones as these let you adjust to where the horizon is in your frame and can be angled a bit, if desired. Round ones that tend to define the composition for you.

[William W]

. . . I'd vote 100% for rectangular and the Filter Holder / Matt-Box Style.

This is an area where one usually ends up designating a filter (or two, three) specifically for a particular Lens: so it is really important to receive tailored advice, that you outline the gear that you have / expect to use.

As implicit in Manfred's response, there are more questions than just hard or soft transition - and note that the descriptions apropos "Transitions" may be vague and are not uniform between manufacturers.

WW

[rpcrowe]

I agree that a square GND filter is generally better than a round filter because the round filter has the line down the middle of the filter which pretty well forces you to place your horizon at the middle of the frame or to crop fairly drastically to place the horizon at the top or bottom third of the frame.

You can move the square GND up or down (whether you are using a filter holder or hand holding the filter in front of the lens) to place the horizon just about where you desire it to be.

I have often thought that some enterprising Chinese company could market a pair of filters in a set with one filter having 1/3 of the area in ND and the other filter having 2/3 of the filter ND. That way you could place the horizon in an appropriate (Rule of Thirds) location. If you needed to crop, the cropping would not need to be as drastic as it would with a center-line filter...

[Manfred M]

Just to clarify, this is the setup I often use (I also have this with a matte box).

Lee Filter holder with Lee GND inserted. There is an optional polarizer mounted at the front. I went with Lee because I know them from my video work, Lee seems to own the virtually own the video market. I know some people that are very happy with the Formatt Hitech system that is a bit less expensive than the Lee system.

I can't comment on the cheap Chinese knockoffs, but have heard a lot about quality issues (colour casts) and in general, I've also heard a lot of negative comments on the Cokin line (again quality issues).

[dje]

Hi Joe

I only have hard grads so i can't compare them with soft grads. All I can say is that they have served me well for sunrises and sunsets, most of which have been over water. Bear in mind too that hard grads still have a transition area, it's just over a shorter distance than soft grads.

The other thing you need to consider is the strength of the GND's. I have a 2 stop and a 3 stop and I use them both, with the 3 stop probably getting 60-70% of the use.

I use a Format Hitech square filter holder with 100mm resin filters.

Dave

[Tringa]

Definitely agree about using square filters.

Apart from a round filter determining the position of the transition for you, you'll need a number of filters for different size lenses. Stepping rings can be used to avoid buying multiple filters but I think their useful range is limited.

With a square system the filter holder attaches to an adaptor ring. To use the filters with different size lenses the only additional thing needed is the appropriately sized adaptor ring.

I have a 3 stop hard grad but have found the transition is sometimes too severe so have recently bought a soft grad.


Dave

[russellsnr]

Hi, Some will disagree with me I no but I got rid of all my GND filters. Why? because I find it a lot easier to take two images, one for the sky and one for the forground then merge with either the gradient tool or with luminosity masks. How many times in landscapes do you find objects that bleed into the sky? trees,mountain tops and then you have to go into software to take a bit out there and another bit there. I have found with the gradient tool in photoshop or luminosity masking takes less overall time. As I said at the start some will disagee but each to there own.
Have a look at http://www.shutterevolve.com/raya-pr...for-photoshop/ to see what I mean. Russ

[Dave Humphries]

Hi Joe,

One type not mentioned is a Reverse ND Grad. for sunsets/rises, since this preserves the less bright sky above you - I'm sure we had someone here that found them useful.

An example with illustrations

When I have shot sunsets myself, I have usually done it the way Russell suggests (as I don't have any GND or RGND filters).
Possibly even from one RAW exposure, processed to two layers in PS if the horizon warranted it due to irregular contours, or just using the graduated filter in ACR if the horizon was flat enough.

Cheers, Dave

[joebranko]

Typically using what lens on what camera and what orientation?
WW

Thanks Bill:
I would be using my Canon T2i with the Sigma 17-70mm lens most often and my Tokina 11mm occasionally. Most often in landscape orientation.

[William W]

Using Post Production - or - using GradND Filters are different processes: and PP is not a result of the digital medium. Post Production (Dodging and Burning and/or Sandwiching Negatives from different exposures when in the Darkroom Printing) are options when working from Film Negative(s) or Transparency(ies).

Mentioned for two reasons:
1. to underscore that this type of Post Production is not new or because digital was invented
2. to separate the process from the outcome – for some the process of getting it in one shot, with little or no processing is where the pleasure and/or the challenge resides.

If we’re taking a vote: I haven’t used my Grad ND’s for many years, but I wouldn’t chuck them out or sell them because, for me, my Grad ND’s are good quality but not often used tools . . . similar to the 7/8th BSA Ring Spanner I used yesterday morning to assist a friend – not many folk have a set of BSA Spanners and I haven’t used mine for years, but I won’t ditch them because they are very good quality; take up very little room; they are not deteriorating; and one day I just might want or need one . . .

WW

[joebranko]

In addition to what Bill has written, hard grads tend to be better when the horizon is fairly distinct and soft tend to be better when it is not. If you are shooting across water or flat areas (shooting the wheat fields in the Prairies) hard grads work well. If you are shooting just about anything else, soft grads tend to work best, in my experience.
.

Thanks Manfred. I shoot across water frequently, however I am not talking about water all the way to the horizon: Often I shoot across the Bay or across Cootes Paradise where the horizon is tree lined, but I get the reflections off the water. I would imagine if the water stretched all the way to the horizon the selection might be different.
With regards rectangular or round: I plan on getting rectangular.

[joebranko]

Hi Joe

I only have hard grads so i can't compare them with soft grads. All I can say is that they have served me well for sunrises and sunsets, most of which have been over water. Bear in mind too that hard grads still have a transition area, it's just over a shorter distance than soft grads.




The other thing you need to consider is the strength of the GND's. I have a 2 stop and a 3 stop and I use them both, with the 3 stop probably getting 60-70% of the use.

I use a Format Hitech square filter holder with 100mm resin filters.

Dave

Thanks Dave. I would probably opt for a 3 stop GND, unless of course they come in sets. I need to research this.

[joebranko]

Thanks Dave.

[joebranko]

Thanks Russell.

[William W]

Thanks Bill:
I would be using my Canon T2i with the Sigma 17-70mm lens most often and my Tokina 11mm occasionally. Most often in landscape orientation.

I'll assume that's the Tokina 11-16mm f/2.8 AT-X Pro DX II.

The Sigma is 72mm Filter dia. and the Tokina is 77mm Filter dia. and neither front element rotate. If my analysis is correct, then you could consider a 72mm to 77mm STEP UP RING and buy one (circular screw mount) 77mm Grad ND and experiment. This would be the least expensive option and whilst you will come to limitations those limitations will neither be earth shattering nor reduce a grown man to tears.

Taking a small step with little capital outlay is often a good move if one is testing the water: the main limitation would be in the section (placement) of the horizon - but the point is if you want a framing to set the horizon in any position other than near the centre, you just shoot a bit wider and the crop to taste later.

***

If you want to spend more money first up, then I suggest you should investigate the sets which comprise Filter Holders - (i.e. such as Manfred illustrated above and NOT "Matt-boxes"). Note that the Tokina Lens is reasonably wide (at 11mm) so you have to pay attention to get an adequately large sized Filter Holder (and subsequent correct sized Square Filters fit) to avoid OPTICAL VIGNETTING.

*

Lee are excellent Filters. I have a set (actually two) of Cokin Filter Holders, but I use other Filters (including 'modified' Lee) in those Cokin Holders, although I have some Cokin Filters (old ones) and I don't have issue with the Cokin Filters that I own. When using this type of tool I mainly use a Matt-Box, simply because I have a large range of Filters to fit that particular apparatus - Matt-Boxes are old school typically used for View and Medium Format Cameras - the "Filter Holder" style presents more "off the shelf" purchase options for the APS-C and 135 Format DSLR and other Miniature Format Digital Cameras.

*

In either case as a first purchase, whether you buy either a Screw-in Filer or one to fit into an Holder, I suggest that a SOFT TRANSITION and about 3 STOPS ND would be the most versatile tool as the first purchase and as a standalone Grad ND, to have in one's Camera Kit.

WW

[Manfred M]

Bill - I would not bother with a step up ring, but would rather go with both a 72mm and 77mm adapter for the filter holder. The price is in the same general ballpark as a step-up ring. Having an adaptor for each camera results in a lot less fiddling in the field. The Lee system has two 77mm adapter rings; one for normal lenses and one for wide angles (it sits a bit further back in order to minimize vignetting). I'm not sure what the other systems have, but I would definitely use the wide angle one on the Tokina. I suspect that there will be some vignetting at focal lengths below 16mm. I have the Tokina f/2.8 11 - 16mm , but have never used the filter holder with it, so I'll have to test when I get home.

I use a matte box in some of my shooting (although to be fair, I got it for video work). The rectangular filters are uncoated and a bit more prone to flare and reflections, so I find it easier just to use one as extra insurance. The only downside is that if I'm not careful, I can introduce an unwanted vignette due to my carelessness in setting things up.

[dje]

Yes the Format Hitech system also has a special version of the adaptor ring for wide angle lens (it places the filter holder closer to the lens to minimise vignetting). I'm not sure why they don't just use this one for everything ! Hitech used to make a single filter holder but I'm not sure whether they do anymore, possibly just a triple. Putting a circular filter in front of the square filter holder (as in Manfred's photo) may also affect vignetting.

Dave

[William W]

Bill - I would not bother with a step up ring, but would rather go with both a 72mm and 77mm adapter for the filter holder. The price is in the same general ballpark as a step-up ring. . .

OK. Thanks.

I'll defer to your comment and agree to it as I didn't do any comparative costings, but, additionally, the key fact is I think if Joe is "serious" he'll get a filter holder, anyway.

WW