Advice sought - polarizing filter.

[DickyOZ]

We live by the sea and always get extreme UV and a lot of haze. I often find it difficult to get detail in clouds and beach photos; what I what to photograph is what I see through my Polaroid sunnies. The lens I'm most likely to use is the 12-40mm which has a 62mm thread (which doesn't rotate when zooming). My other favourite lens is the 40-150mm, it has a 72mm thread. But I won't be buying two filters!

Advice and/or recommendations would be most welcome. I have always believed you get what you pay for and I always buy tools that give me no excuses. If I can't afford them I go without...

Dicky.

[russellsnr]

Hi, buy a Hoya pol filter as good quality and not so expensive 62mm will do you but remember two rules (1)you must have the sun at 90deg to either side for the filter to give good results and(2) with such a wide lens don't shoot at 12mm just because you can as that will most certainly give you that dark blue shaddow on the side of your images that spoil a good photograph.
You have two other options look into NDG filters the 0.6 or 0.9 option as they darken the sky by 2 and 3 stops
or take two images one for sky and one for forground them merge in software.
Russ

[dem]

You can buy a 72 mm filter and a 62 mm to 72 mm step up ring to fit this filter to your 12-40 mm lens.

Incidentally, I just bought a Hoya PL 62 mm filter off ebay UK for a pound. Well... it is missing some paint and would normally go for about 10 pounds when the seller lists it properly. But still we are not talking big money here.

A step up ring would normally cost about 3 pounds.

[Tronhard]

. The lens I'm most likely to use is the 12-40mm which has a 62mm thread (which doesn't rotate when zooming). My other favourite lens is the 40-150mm, it has a 72mm thread. But I won't be buying two filters!
I have always believed you get what you pay for and I always buy tools that give me no excuses. If I can't afford them I go without...

Dicky.

So... if I may ask why won't you buy a separate filter for each lens? As you say you are close to the coast I would assume that you would get a fair bit of airborne salt and maybe sand. Every time you have to change the filter you expose your front element to that unless you stack another filter beneath it, but that can lead to complications in quality. I find that the more one handles a filter the more risk of damage or need to clean the surface.

Personally I have polarizing filters for every size lens I carry and in some cases several in case I am using several lenses with the same filter size. I get high end filters - after forking out a considerable amount of money for a really good lens it makes little sense to bung a poor quality piece of glass on the front - a point that you seem to appreciate with your last two sentences.

[Mike Buckley]

Do some research and get a high-quality filter, as some of the low- to mid-quality filters introduce a color cast if you're discriminating enough to notice it. Sorry that I can't be more helpful than that about the color cast.

As for dealing with haze, be sure to check out the Dehaze capabilities that have been introduced recently in post-processing software. I've used it with Adobe's software and it works remarkably well, so much so that it's a game-changer for me. I've read about at least one or two other software applications that have it but I can't remember the products.

[IzzieK]

I use screw-in nowadays for polarizing filters. And I have one for each lens size that I own...and also variable ND filters, also screw-in. I think it is more convenience for me because I go to Oz every year with my house located in front of Port Philip Bay.

[dje]

Hi Dicky

I think Hoya would be a good brand to look at, I believe they have a standard range and a PRO range, the latter being more expensive of course. Have a look at Digital Camera Warehouse or DigiDirect online for pricing. I'd go for the 72mm version with a 62/72 step up ring. You can get the step up rings on ebay from China very cheaply.

I have a Marumi polariser which is OK and a Hoya ND which I am happy with. I don't use the polarisor that much, others swear by them and like to have them on their lenses all the time - not me though! You can do a fair bit in pp these days.

Dave

[billtils]

A good rule of thumb for when to use polarising filters is "if you are wearing sunnies, your camera should too". And don't forget that no amount of PP can recover what's not there (as in blown highlights).

As far as PP for haze removal goes, if you have a Mac, try Affinity Photo, which has an excellent haze removal filter (at a price that will leave you enough to upgrade the polarising filter purchase from "basic" to "pro").

[Dave Humphries]

I bought a Hoya Pro-1 Digital as a compromise and am happy with it.

I went the step up rings route to avoid the cost implications of buying filters for each lens barrel size - given how little I use them (for what and where I shoot).

However, as Russell has said, they work best for sky polarisation at 90 degrees to the sun, so as your lens angle of view approaches 90 degrees (as 12mm will, on a MFT sensor), any shot is likely to include sky with both maximum and almost minimum effects visible, resulting in one side having a distinctly darker tone. It may be helpful at longer focal lengths, but again, only when shooting in either of the correct directions relative to the sun.

However, a CPL will have other useful benefits for reflection and glare elimination, even at 12mm.

[Sam W]

I only have a basic CPL that came "free" with my camera. So I have been looking for a better quality replacement. Months ago I read a thread that had Manfred's advice which lead me to giving the B+W XS-Pro Kaesemann High Transmission Circular Polarizer MRC-Nano Filter my highest consideration for my budget. The 77mm is around $140 which on the high side for my budget but Trev has a good point above "it makes little sense to bung a poor quality piece of glass on the front...of an expensive lens"

The B+W features include brass ring construction which reportedly reduce the possibility needing a filter wrench and has a low profile if you will be shooting wide. Here is a link to one source http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...kaesemann.html

Again, I do not own it yet but just wanted to pass along one option to consider.

[DanK]

I have three brands of CPLs: Hoya, Marumi, and Breakthrough Photography. Hoya was my go-to brand for filters for years, but I purchased a few Marumis, including on CPL, after reading superb reviews on Lenstip.com. Both brands use aluminum frames. The Marumis tend to be cheaper at a given level of quality, but they are harder to find. I buy them from 2filter.com in NH. With either brand, the quality of the coatings is important. In the case of Hoya, I buy only HMC multicoated or another version with similar multicoating.

The Breakthrough CPL is new, and I don't yet have experience with it. I actually bought it via Kickstarter. They are a relatively new company that got its start making very well reviewed neutral density filters and recently moved into CPLs. The physical construction is superb: brass frames, Schott glass, and a knurled outer ring to make rotation easier. The polarizing film is their own. I can't vouch for its performance yet, but in a simple test, it seemed similar to the Marumi.

I think the bottom line is that as long as you buy a multicoated filter from a good brand, you should be OK. You might want to look at the lenstip reviews at http://www.lenstip.com/115.1-article...ters_test.html. The reviews are 6 years old, so they don't have any newcomers like Breakthrough, but I found them informative.

[William W]

We live by the sea and always get extreme UV and a lot of haze. I often find it difficult to get detail in clouds and beach photos; what I what to photograph is what I see through my Polaroid sunnies. The lens I'm most likely to use is the 12-40mm which has a 62mm thread (which doesn't rotate when zooming). My other favourite lens is the 40-150mm, it has a 72mm thread. But I won't be buying two filters! Advice and/or recommendations would be most welcome. I have always believed you get what you pay for and I always buy tools that give me no excuses. If I can't afford them I go without...

Olympus Micro Four Thirds System?

Be careful that you might not get what you expect to get – points to consider:

> With Circular Polarizing Filters Blue Banding is fairly common in most sky images which compass a FoV equivalent to 35mm lens on 135 Format Camera (aka “Full Frame”). I have had Blue Banding in the sky when using a 70mm Lens on a 135 Format Camera – that means you’ll have to be very careful if you are wider than 18mm on your WA zoom and still be aware of large expanses of sky in the frame when using that lens at any Focal Length. This point warrants attention considering that your purpose is “details in the clouds”

> If you buy a 72ϕ Filter – and – 62mm to 72mm Step Up Ring, that will place the filter several mm proud of the front of your Wide Angle zoom – and possibly cause an optical vignette.

> Many Filters have aluminium frames – Al oxidizes – big time oxidation is apparent near the ocean and humidity: careful that it does not get stuck (on the lens). Brass frames are more expensive.

*

I use Slim Profile Hoya Pro Series Circular Polarizing Filters, I have two sizes. I use them (very) sparingly and usually only Standard and Short Telephoto lenses (equiv 135 format: 50mm – 135mm Lenses) and very occasionally on my 35mm Lens.

At the beach, for any Wide Angle Shot requiring cloud detail when there a lot of haze, I would first use a UV Series or Skylight Series Filter, rather than using a CPF for that task.

At the beach for a shot of the water where reflected water GLARE requires elimination and especially if there was a lot of sky in the shot I would firstly try to frame the shot so as NOT to use a wide angle lens and then use a CPF to eliminate the reflected glare.

*

QUESTION:

Is Olympus one of those digital cameras which does NOT have a UV filter in-built?

WW

[rpcrowe]

IMO, the problem with purchasing a single (largest size) filter and fitting it to the various lenses with step-rings is one of convenience.

If you are shooting with a polarizer and want to change lenses, you must also switch the filter if you are using the single filter + step-ring system. I use a polarizer for virtually all of my outdoor shooting. However, I may or may not dial in the full impact of the polarizer for every shot. This depends on the image and the angle of the sun...

One facet of a polarizer that is not always mentioned is that when the sun is in the correct position and you darken the sky by use of the CPL, the total dynamic range of the image shifts, often to within a range that your camera can capture.

[rpcrowe]

Do some research and get a high-quality filter, as some of the low- to mid-quality filters introduce a color cast if you're discriminating enough to notice it. Sorry that I can't be more helpful than that about the color cast.

As for dealing with haze, be sure to check out the Dehaze capabilities that have been introduced recently in post-processing software. I've used it with Adobe's software and it works remarkably well, so much so that it's a game-changer for me. I've read about at least one or two other software applications that have it but I can't remember the products.

I believe that the latest incarnation of OnOne Perfect Photo Suite (or whatever it is now named) has a dehaze filter.

However, I prefer to get my images best as I can when I shoot. The polarizing filter (given correct sun angle) will cut the reflections from water droplets and smog particulates therefore revealing portions of the image which might have been somewhat obscured without the CPL. Yes, the dehaze filters will sharpen and otherwise improve a hazy image but, they cannot add the detail that is not in the image in the first place.

The same is true for the CPL filter removing reflections from windows, water and other surfaces. You cannot bring up portions of an image which were not there in the first place. Like seeing fish beneath the water that are obscured by reflections. If there are no fish visible in the original image, all the post-processing (short of blending in fish from another image) will not produce fish in your image...

[Mike Buckley]

Good points, Richard. Just to be clear, I was not advocating using a Dehaze software capability instead of a polarizer; I was advocating using it in addition to using a polarizer.

[DickyOZ]

Many thanks to all who replied. After careful consideration I will try my luck with a Hoya 62mm HD Circular Polarizing PL CIR-PL Filter. If it works well I will consider the 72mm filter as well.

I always try to support my local camera stores, after all they usually look after me. But, my preferred store has it priced at $199 the store next to it has it for $135 or I can get it from a reliable supplier on FleaBay for $70 delivered. I will usually wear a 10-20% markup but not 100-200%.....

[billtils]

Good decisions Richard!

[Dave Humphries]

I will usually wear a 10-20% markup but not 100-200%.....

Absolutely, that's why mine come from on line sources (my bold)

After careful consideration I will try my luck with a Hoya 62mm HD Circular Polarizing PL CIR-PL Filter. If it works well I will consider the 72mm filter as well.

I think that's the right way to go (rather than step up rings), given that (unusually in my experience) your wider angle lens has the smaller diameter filter.

[DickyOZ]

Filter ordered, delivery about two weeks which is about average from Hong Kong to here.

[William W]

Originally Posted by DickyOZ View Post
I will usually wear a 10-20% markup but not 100-200%...

Absolutely, that's why mine come from on line sources (my bold)

(aside)

I was going to make an aside comment earlier on this point but I chose not to unless the conversation developed:

I am not commenting/debating whether one should or should not buy on line or locally; nor am I commenting about buying at the cheapest/cheaper price.

I am commenting about quoting and comparing the differences in price as simply a "mark-up" - as doing so potentially avoids addressing the more probable reasons for the price differences.

Unless one knows the two re-seller's buying prices then one cannot compare their individual "mark-ups" or assume that the local re-seller is making a larger percentage Gross Profit than the Hong Kong on-line store.

In Australia, many bricks and mortar re-sellers are contracted to buy from the local agent/importer/distributor (i.e. they cannot import directly and then resell - well they can, but if found out they risk breaking their contract and might not be supplied ALL the items distributed by that particular Australian Agent.)

So, it is entirely possible that for this item of a Filter the local camera shop in Qld. who is selling it for $135.00 is working on about the same or maybe less "mark-up" than the Hong Kong on line re-seller who is selling it at $70.00. And it is also possible that the Qld. re-seller who quoted you $199.00 buys the item at an higher price than the Qld. bloke selling it at $135.00

There are other costs in running a B&M store in Qld., and many are unavoidable, such as essential/legislative business overheads and GST. These costs probably contribute to why the local store-owner might feel s/he has to charge more for this item and indeed their "mark up" might be more than the Hong Kong store - but we don't know and can't quantify how much more that "mark up" might be, unless we know each re-sellers buying price: and my gut feel is the Hong Kong On-line Store has an advantage on that point.

Whatever the case, it seems an exponential trend that there will be fewer and fewer local stores in Aus., so any comparisons of prices and 'mark up', will be irrelevant in the not too distant future even if the recently proposed GST reform legislation is passed and even if all the Australian mandatory/legislative business overheads were to be repealed.

***

The "HD" Series has very good press and was not invented when I last bought a Filter - I think you have made a good choice and hope that you enjoy using the filter.

WW