PP Workflow query

[PhilT]

Dear all,
I'd like to open a thread where our many CinC's expert members can share their experience for the less expert amateurs (like me ).
1-The main subject I'd like to ask is about your "routine" workflow in PPI of RAW pictures, after you organize and/or select the ones you keep (if you select).
2-Are you beginning first in the proprietary RAW software (Nikon, Canon, etc) for basic adjustments, or directly begin in LR, PS or whatever?
Any suggestions to add to this thread are welcomed.
Thanks a lot in advance to everyone who takes time to share of his experience
Philippe

[Black Pearl]

Mine:

* Card goes into the side of the iMac.
* In Lightroom's Import pane I create/name a folder where the images are going to go, key word them, apply any pre-sets I feel may speed up processing and deselect any files I feel aren't worth keeping before hitting go.
* Most if not all of the heavy lifting is done directly in LR. I have a few of my own pre-sets that can be applied and tweaked and I do have a couple of plug-ins that I use depending on what I've shot. If the images form a particular sequence these pre-sets help enormously but otherwise I'll work on each image as its individual needs require.
* I have two general output routes.
1. Direct export from LR - I'll name, place, resize, sharpen and output a number of images in a batch. This is great for FB, sending examples to people or knocking out files to print for the family.
2. Export individually to PS for further editing - this is generally when I want to heavily work an image and/or finely control the output size and output sharpening for a specific final file. I use this when posting to forums, supplying to the person the images are for or for printing.

[pnodrog]

Hi Philippe, I import RAW (NEF) directly from the camera (USB3) using Lightroom. Usually the photographs have one or more key words in common so that is set for the import. Before I start any processing I add the more specific keywords by selecting groups of images that share a common word (e.g. all images with a bird have bird as a keyword) and set the keyword. My memory is not what it used to be so I try and be reasonably thorough and even add them to images that are unlikely to ever be used.

It will depend a bit on what I am using the photographs for and why I took them but generally I assign a green colour label (habit - could select "flagged" ) to the images I am intending to "develop". A few years ago I would not set a flag or colour label but add these images to "quick collection". However I tend to use the "quick collection" for other things now. Utter failures I will delete or flag as a reject.

I tend to "develop" the green labeled images methodically in import order (time) if I have taken them for a specific reason and will be sending them on to someone (e.g. event or prize giving photographs etc). If I have taken them just for personal reasons I tend to do them in any order, often with the ones I like or feel have the most potential being "developed" first. If a group of photographs have a common requirement for their adjustment they may all be selected and the preliminary development done applied to them all. Usually however I "develop" them individually starting with one of my stored "presets".

Editing in Photoshop is only used when I need to do very controlled cloning, selections best done using layers and masks or adding text. It is probably less than 10% that need Photoshop editing and usually because I have a specific problem or I want the absolute best result that only the control in Photoshop is going to achieve.

[Dave Humphries]

Hi Philippe,

I certainly wouldn't call myself an expert, but I'll share my routine workflow. I shoot almost 100% RAW only.

I know this first bit isn't what you asked for, but I'll provide it as context ...
I import, review and cull using Nikon's ViewNX2, direct from memory card using card reader built-in to my PC, which tells you I am a Nikon shooter, although I actually also use the same method for my Canon P&S camera too.

From ViewNX; I can directly open my highest star rated images in to Photoshop CC (Right click, Open With), which actually opens the RAW file in ACR (Adobe Camera Raw).

ACR

White Balance
Basic exposure adjustments
Any gradient filters (if necessary)
Lens corrections (Chromatic Aberration), Geometry by lens profile, these are always left on by default
Rotate to correct any level issues in capture
I may or may not do 'converging verticals' type corrections in ACR, if not ACR, then later in PS after cropping
Zero sharpening
Zero Noise reduction

Open in PS CC (in 16-bit)

If necessary; Noise Reduction with Neat Image (as a Plug-in)
Cloning (if necessary)
Crop
Save full size PSD
Image size reduced (better for on-line display)
Final Sharpening using USM
Save As jpg, quality 9 (or 75%)

Most of those things are done in that specific order for very good reasons, but (for brevity) I won't go in to them in this post, but anyone is free to ask if puzzled.

Bear in mind that this is a workflow that works for me (for what I shoot), others may disagree for their own reasons. If I shoot subjects or in situations that present 'different to normal' issues, I will revise the workflow accordingly, also of course, if I'm producing a B&W (I don't do this often); sometimes I'll convert in ACR, other times in PS CC (especially if I also want a colour version).

My 'throughput' doesn't currently warrant batch processing, so every image is treated individually (although I'll set them numerically to same WB in ACR if part of a series shot under same lighting conditions). I don't use 'image effect' plug-ins.
I reserve the right to change this in future if I see benefit


I started using ACR in Elements many years ago, so I'm used to that interface. I did try LR once, but since I didn't want the Database side of things, I couldn't see any benefit for me learning a whole new interface which provided exactly the same functionality that ACR gives me.


I have one question for you though; what does PPI stand for?
"PP" I think I can guess, but the "I" has me stumped.

Cheers, Dave

[dje]

My turn...

Browse in Bridge and select images to process
In some cases, I'll apply an ACR preset in Bridge

ACR
Apply preset for the particular camera which activates Auto Lens Correction, sets capture sharpening settings to my defaults for the particular camera, and adds a small amount of Clarity and Vibrance.

Work down the settings starting with WB, then Exposure, Contrast, Highlights and Shadows etc
Maybe apply a tone curve
Maybe adjust colours
Crop and straighten as required
Apply noise reduction where required
Create a Snapshot of the edit as it stands
(all done in 16 bit Adobe RGB)

Open image(s) in Photoshop
Further editing as required, including use of Nik plug-ins
Save as PSD
Use an Action to downsize image and sharpen for screen viewing, saving as jpeg.

That's about it.

Dave

[James G]

Hi Phillipe,
I put together a PDF aide-memoire a while back for some friends trying to get to grips with Photoshop image processing.

you can download it fro this link http://1drv.ms/1SY4XHk

I capture in raw and use Adobe Camera Raw for the majority of processing. I tend to use Photoshop for final preparation of the image. i.e. for print or digital presentation.

Like Dave, I'd point out that this is a workflow I'm comfortable with and although it is presented as an 'end to end' process I rarely carry out all the steps presented. The source image predicates how much or how little I apply.

[Mike Buckley]

1. Use cataloging software to download from memory card. The process also automatically renames the files, creates backups and adds limited metadata.
2. Cull and delete images that don't make the cut.
3. Convert raw files using discontinued Nikon converter but only because I like it and am used to using it.
4. Eliminate all in-camera sharpening and make global adjustments such as the tone curve and sharpening.
5. Optional: Make full-size JPEG and use Lightroom's Dehaze tool. Export the JPEG, remove the corresponding file from the Lightroom catalog and delete it from the computer system. Return to Nikon software for working with the exported JPEG.
6. Make selective adjustments. (The order rarely matters because of how the Nikon software works.)
7. Optional: Convert to monochrome.
8. Optional: Make a full-size JPEG (if not already made) for using Photoshop or Lightroom to make adjustments that can't be done using the Nikon software, such as correcting perspective distortion or using sophisticated cloning capabilities.
9. Use cataloging software to add keywords and other metadata.
10. Use cataloging software's batch process to automatically make JPEGs sized and sharpened for display on the Internet and to connect ("version") the raw files and JPEGs.
11. Now that I have lived with each image a bit, use cataloging software to rate each one using a star rating.
12. Move raw files and small JPEGs to their final resting place.
13. Delete backups that were created during the download from memory card.
14. Backup all image files and corresponding XMP files to external drive.
15. Backup all image files and corresponding XMP files the next Friday morning to a second external drive that is stored offsite each Friday morning through Thursday afternoon.

[DanK]

I shoot only raw.

--I copy the files (without importing them) to my primary hard drive. If there is reason to, I move some to a different folder.

--I then do my first backup, syncing to an external drive. Only after this is complete, I reformat the card in the camera.

--I import into Lightroom. I don't use Canon's proprietary software because it has more limited editing capabilities and doesn't integrate with other software I use. I have LR set to store edits as "sidecar" (xmp) files, which makes it possible to retrieve edited versions even if the catalog crashes and can't be restored. (I've never needed this, but it is nice to know it is there.)

--at this point, my second backup, a cloud backup with CrashPlan, starts automatically and happily but slowly works away in the background.

--I do all of the editing I can do easily and well in Lightroom. Given what I shoot, that is all I need in the way of conventional editing for many of my shots, although I do have to export many from Lightroom into Zerene for stacking, after which I bring the composite back into Lightroom.

--Occasionally, I use Nik plug-ins in Lightroom.

--If I need something more--for example, if I need masks, or if I want to do luminance-only tonality adjustments--I export to Photoshop using the 'edit in' menu in LR.

--I sometimes use Nik Plugins in Photoshop.

--Given that I moved into PS using the 'edit in' menu, saving the edited file places it back into LR, which is where I want it. I save as TIFs, generally with layers intact in case I want to redo edits later.

--If I need a jpeg, e.g., to post to the web or to send to a lab, I export the jpeg from LR. I virtually never save these jpegs, as they just waste space and I can recreate them with a mouse click. I post mostly on Smugmug (I link from there to here), and I use a LR plugin that creates the jpeg, uploads it to the relevant gallery, and discards the jpeg on my machine.

--I print from LR.

LR's native color space is a version of ProPhoto RGB called Melissa, so I am working in ProPhoto most of the time, although LR of course renders it as sRGB on my monitors. I set PS to ProPhoto also to preserve as much detail as I can. Zerene doesn't translate to sRGB in displaying on a monitor, so my photos have odd colors in that software, but the appearance returns to normal when I bring them back into LR. I export jpegs as sRGB. For printing, I leave the color space alone and let the software map from Melissa to the ICC for the printer and paper.

Re the actual sequence of edits: that is a whole additional set of questions. However, as long as you are in Lightroom, it doesn't matter in terms of the properties of the final image. (There have been several threads posted about this, and in one of them, I posted a series of edited images to demonstrate it.) The software is designed so that most often, most people will want to work from top to bottom in the develop panel, and I often do, starting with white balance and tonality (exposure, curves, etc.) and then moving down, but there is no need to do this. If you have a slow computer, this also helps because the lens correction options at the bottom are mathematically intensive and can slow things down, but on my middling computer, I have never noticed any effect. So I feel perfectly free to hop around as the image suggests changes to me. For example, I was recently editing a set of candids of a baby. I always started with white balance, but I then often went to the other side and clicked on LR's 'sharpen--faces' preset (one of the few presets I use). It's effects are subtle, and this way, I don't forget to do it. Then I went back to the right side and worked on tonality, did some dodging and burning, etc.

In a pixel editor, there are additional constraints. For example, many people would suggest doing noise reduction before sharpening so that you don't sharpen the noise. (I agree with this advice, but I rarely use noise reduction.)

[PhilT]

Hi Philippe,
I have one question for you though; what does PPI stand for?
"PP" I think I can guess, but the "I" has me stumped.

Cheers, Dave

Oops, Dave your right, professional deformation from me (I'm a health professional), then PPI is in fact Proton Pump Inhibitor, a drug used for heartburn, gastritis and so on. Should I change the name of the thread? It seems that quite a lot of people (you too) understood that I mean Post-Processing. Funny you're the only one who pay attention to this, chapeau!

[DanK]

Oops, Dave your right, professional deformation from me (I'm a health professional), then PPI is in fact Proton Pump Inhibitor, a drug used for heartburn, gastritis and so on. Should I change the name of the thread? It seems that quite a lot of people (you too) understood that I mean Post-Processing. Funny you're the only one who pay attention to this, chapeau!

My first reading was "pixels per inch" (this is a photo forum, after all), but I couldn't figure out the relevance.

[Dave Humphries]

Should I change the name of the thread?

Done

Funny how we can lapse in to a different set of abbreviations or acronyms at the drop of a lens cap.

[rpcrowe]

I do not use, nor do I like Lightroom. I am sure that this is operator problems but, it just doesn’t suit me…

I usually shoot using UDMA Capable CF Cards in my 7D or 5D2 cameras. I download the RAW files using a UDMA compatible USB 3.0 card reader which I plug into my computer via the USB cable. I have noticed a significant difference in the speed of both writing to and reading from UDMA capable cards.

I don't do any in-camera sharpening or noise reduction.

I open the RAW files with Adobe Bridge using the “Get Images from Camera” command.

I rename the group of files as I open them in Bridge using the following sequence: yyyymmdd + specific name from my camera. As an example a group that I shot today of the dog Maddie would be listed as 20160220_Maddie and each image would be identified as 20160220_Maddie_image number and would be a CR2 file.

I save copies of these files in an alternate folder within an external hard drive.

I open selected files in Adobe Camera Raw and do some corrections. I especially like ACR for rotating images. I also try to shoot a color balance reference (Whibal Card) and use the color dropper of ACR to adjust the white balance. I don't do any noise reduction in ACR...

I then open the CR2 image in Photoshop CS6. If I need to do noise reduction, I will use NIK Dfine. I then use the NIK RAW Presharpener on my image.

After that I work on color balance, density, brightness, contrast both globally and selectively as well as using a combination of NIK and CS6 tools including the stamp tool and the dodge and burn tools. I make gret use of NIK Viveza and its control point and brush tools. I especially like the Viveza Structure Slider.

After I have the image pretty well as I want it, I save the uncropped and unsharpened image as a MASTER FILE using PSD format. I save this PSD format MASTER FILE in the same folder in which I saved my RAW files. My RAW files are untouched and my Master File remains untouched.

The advantage of having an unsharpened (except for input sharpening) and an uncropped image is that I can crop and size the image any way I want and the use specific output sharpening for the finished product.

Of course, I need to crop most images, after cropping and sizing (I use Perfect Resize which is a later version of Genuine Fractals) to resize my image and to provide output sharpening for my purposed.

I will then save my cropped and sharpened version as a JPEG or TIFF in a folder with an identifying name such as “Venice” or “Rescue Maltese”

Finally, I will put the image to use as a print or as any other way I desire.

[PhilT]

I don't do any in-camera sharpening or noise reduction.

Accessory question: I read from several answers that they don't use this in-camera features. Can you explain why?

[dje]

Accessory question: I read from several answers that they don't use this in-camera features. Can you explain why?

Hi Philippe

If you are working with raw files, the data you are processing is straight out of the sensor without any adjustments. RAW files however also contain info on camera "Picture control" settings which can be applied in the camera manufacturer's raw processing software. Eg ViewNX. This option is not usually available in third party raw processors eg Adobe.

Most people prefer to start from scratch anyway with raw processing.

Dave

[lukaswerth]

Bridge and Photoshop (including ACR).

Lukas

[Mike Buckley]

I read from several answers that they don't use this in-camera features.

I always use raw files and in-camera sharpening. That's because I like to magnify the image display in my camera's LCD to check for sharpness. If it's not sharp enough, I retake the photo. My first edit step during post-processing is to eliminate the in-camera sharpening so I can customize sharpening. As an example, if the image has a plain blue sky, I won't apply any sharpening to that part of the image.

[xpatUSA]

Oops, Dave your right, professional deformation from me (I'm a health professional), then PPI is in fact Proton Pump Inhibitor, a drug used for heartburn, gastritis and so on. Should I change the name of the thread? It seems that quite a lot of people (you too) understood that I mean Post-Processing. Funny you're the only one who pay attention to this, chapeau!

Nope. I saw it too and wondered what Pixels Per Inch had to do with it

You only got one comment because photographic forum members are quite accustomed to people inventing new terms - often to replace well-established ones like "PP" which, in it's turn, does not mean "pages" . . .

[rpcrowe]

Accessory question: I read from several answers that they don't use this in-camera features. Can you explain why?

I do all my sharpening and noise reduction in the with my CS6 NIK Software Plug-Ins. The instructions for this software recommend that if you are using it for noise reduction/sharpening, that you do not additionally use noise reduction/sharpening in-camera or with Adobe Camera Raw.

I have not done any experiments to ascertain what the results would be if I used other than the NIK for noise reduction and sharpening.

BTW: my UDMA USB-3.0 card reader allows me to download my CF Card image files faster than my computer's built-in card reader and far-far faster than connecting my camera to the computer with a cable for download or using the Canon proprietary software for downloading.

BTW-2: I don't like saving my downloaded RAW images as DNG (Adobe Digital Negative). I have not experienced as much success with DNG as I have with CR2 files. This is probably a factor of operator error but, my motto is, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it!" and I do just fine with CR2 files...

[xpatUSA]

Accessory question: I read from several answers that they don't use this in-camera features. Can you explain why?

For me, my final editors can do things like sharpening, saturation, contrast, NR, ten times better than the in-camera firmware which is constrained by simplicity and speed considerations.

By the same token, the Sigma proprietary converter (SPP) is only used to correct a poor shot within reason, e.g. using EC for so-called highlight "recovery". Anything else is far better done in RawTherapee.

My serious workflow is to export a viable 16-bit ProPhoto TIFF from SPP to RawTherapee - there to do as I please.

Much of the time, for family stuff or illustrative stuff, I'll export instead an 8-bit sRGB TIFF to FastStone Viewer because it's quick and easier that way.

[DanK]

The instructions for this software recommend that if you are using it for noise reduction/sharpening, that you do not additionally use noise reduction/sharpening in-camera or with Adobe Camera Raw.

Assuming you are shooting raw, in-camera sharpening and noise reduction will only matter if ACR reads that information and does the sharpening and noise reduction itself. So, I think it either doesn't matter or is the same as whatever sharpening and noise reduction you have set in ACR.

I have never tested this because I have never used camera settings for either.