PAD - Your Thoughts Please

[Colin Southern]

I thought it is great for those that can do it, but swamped everything else in Cic. I think it should have a completely different thread to Nature & Architecture.

Thanks Steve,

I put it in the N&A forum because that's also the "and all other images" forum -- seemed like a good a place as any at the time.

[Dave Humphries]

Hi Colin,

It has been hard to be original and interesting, and I, more than most seem to have 'scraped the bottom of the barrel' rather than miss a day altogether (although I did that once too). Reviewing my PAD slideshow makes me cringe with embarrassment in a couple of places and I wish there were more consistency to the size an quality of the shots. Both would be more achievable with Ashwin's 'one a week' idea.

A full time job, family committments, along with changing PC, has meant that rather than get in from work and drive straight back out into rush hour traffic to go somewhere interesting, I have been heavily reliant upon bugs in the garden for subjects, leading to some repetition.

However, I have undoubtedly published far, far more images than my norm and got out more often with camera. Some have required different PP techniques, so I have learnt along the way.

I'd definitely try PAD again, (after a rest) although my thoughts on one in winter months is; 'oh no, even less daylight', but then many southern hemispherites have had that now! I never got into using the light tent for still life/macro this time round, so I guess I can 'go there' next time.

Thanks,

[PopsPhotos]

My big regret is missing almost a week of shooting/posting. It WAS hard, some days to get someting I thought was worth posting, and some of mine were just-not-quite throw aways.

I did get more experimental in some of my shooting and I actually did some experimenting with manual lenses on the D40, which I had been putting off for so long. I would be interested in another such go, later.

I, also, do like the idea of the weekly photo challenge. Best Of The Week... hmmm... Fits rather nicely with some of our other challenges.

Pops

[Dave Humphries]

I, also, do like the idea of the weekly photo challenge. Best Of The Week... hmmm... Fits rather nicely with some of our other challenges.

That would mean it could go in the Photo challenges forum, which possibly addresses one of Steve's concerns - about location.

However, I do wonder whether we would need Mini Comps AND PAW (Photo A Week).

Of course, the major attraction of Mini Comps are;
1) They are very easy to vote in (for us all), and
2) once the poll is set up, are automatic.

Whereas the PAW challenge would have to be run like the monthlies and that is quite moderator labour intensive to get into to a state where people can easily and unambiguously vote (on image posts and not comments), then we usually have to keep chasing to get enough votes to make the result meaningful. With that happening more often, I can see the returns being even less.

I used to run a Hall of Fame thread for the Mini Comps (and monthlies), but TBH it became just another (fairly labour intensive) task that seemed to attract very little response, so I quietly stopped doing it. If that were properly administered again, I wonder if that might address some of Ashwin's desire for a more competitive showcase for winners?

Any thoughts?

[PopsPhotos]

Those concerns are the very reason I expressed my idea the way I did. The extra work of administering a vote is one thing which we must watch closely. I'm going to PM you an idea.

ETA: I did a little research and my idea won't work on this forum. AH, well.

Pops

[Loose Canon]

Like a lot of others, there was pretty much no way I could have contributed a PAD for an entire month, even if I had wanted to. I also find myself in the unfortunate position of having to work for a living. And as a Merchant Seaman, I am gone for much of the time. I have yet to figure a comfortable way to haul a bunch of shooting gear around with me through airports and such. Then at home, I have my lovely and charming SWMBO, who as we all know, MBO’d! The Honey-Do’s get to flying after being gone a spell! Plus this particular month I was out of sorts on a much needed vacation as well.

But I can say this. It seemed that the volume of photos posted this month increased exponentially. I can’t say I saw a bad one in the lot. The comments were fun and informative, which to me, as a beginning hack in the field, was invaluable. I had an increased opportunity to see what others are doing and seeing, and what is possible. If Colin has succeeded in leading by example, and has kept the standards high as he has said he has tried to do, then certainly everyone else who participated kept up their end of the deal in spades.

Personally, as an observer and beginner, I am presently caught up in learning the “mechanics” and concepts of everything. I’ve only had a dslr for a short time. Never an slr before that. Plus I am going to have to be self-taught. I will not have the luxury of a formal edumacation on the subject. It’s pretty much all news to me and I’ll have to depend on internet, tutorials, other photographers, and mostly trial and error. Certainly a lot of error! Once comfortable, I can then let my eye take over more and more. But I can safely say that this site has been the kind of resource that I had hoped to find before I even got started. And the PAD made it even better, because there was more of it.

I have to admit I got a little tickled as time ground on and it seemed that some might have been struggling somewhat to make a post a day. I noticed that the jocularity factor went up during these times as well. A very good thing, if you ask me (which no one did!). It never pays to take one’s self too seriously, I don’t care who you are. I am a huge Pixar fan and I loved Colin’s “father/son” light shot just as an example. If I am not having fun pursuing an endeavor, then I am just not going to pursue it. Life is way too short. Here, there is a good mix of serious and not-so-too-serious that was magnified in the PAD.

Again, struggle or not, I never saw a shot from anyone that I didn’t like and didn’t get something from.

But I’ll have to go with Steve on this one, though. Now that it has been done successfully, I think the PAD would be better served as a topic of its own.

Just a Theory!

Thanks to all that participated. It was pure joy seeing your contributions!

[wilgk]

However, I do wonder whether we would need Mini Comps AND PAW (Photo A Week).

Of course, the major attraction of Mini Comps are;
1) They are very easy to vote in (for us all), and
2) once the poll is set up, are automatic.

Any thoughts?

I think you have got a great system going with Mini comp, Monochrome mini comp, Monthly challenge and themed challenge now.

This was a great idea for an 'extra' and everyone both participants and observers have got a great deal out of it.
But if the challenges currently in action aren't too difficult to administer for those doing the work - can they stay?
- they are all great fun and good learning tools.

[Dave Humphries]

But if the challenges currently in action aren't too difficult to administer for those doing the work - can they stay?
- they are all great fun and good learning tools.

Oh yes, as we currently split it, it is only done once a month for both Colin and I, no great hassle.

[Colin Southern]

How's this for a thought ... a weekly challenge in which to be considered for voting, participants must enter 7 shots, but they don't need to be on different days. At the end of the 7 days we'll attach a poll and get votes as to who did the best overall job? How does that sound?

[PopsPhotos]

You still will have the 10 contestant limit for voting.

Enter 7 shots in one post; When 10 shooters have posted or a week has gone by, close and vote?

Enter 7 shots in one post; When 7 days have gone by, close and vote via PM?

hmmmmm (I'm thinking. Smell the burning cellulose? )

Pops

[Crovean]

As a new comer for photography this was a challenge to me. It was easy for the first 2 weeks but after that real life caught up with me and miss few days closer to the end of the PAD challenge. One think good from this was I'm in a habit now of bringing my cam everyday to work with me, but there are still times that I don't get to press that shutter button oh well. But over all experience was fun and educational for me. I'm ready for the next one (i think) lol

[Ashwin]

How's this for a thought ... a weekly challenge in which to be considered for voting, participants must enter 7 shots, but they don't need to be on different days. At the end of the 7 days we'll attach a poll and get votes as to who did the best overall job? How does that sound?

Hi Colin,

To me this sounds difficult proposition.

Suppose there are only ten participants multiply by 7 and there are 70 Photographs
It will be tiresome job to view each photographs for voting, to my mind this will add confusion......

You are conducting so much shows, what is your judgement . . .!

[Colin Southern]

Hi Colin,

To me this sounds difficult proposition.

Suppose there are only ten participants multiply by 7 and there are 70 Photographs
It will be tiresome job to view each photographs for voting, to my mind this will add confusion......

You are conducting so much shows, what is your judgement . . .!

The problem I have Ashwin though is that if folks only need to enter 1 image in the 7 days then (a) it doesn't push them very hard, and (b) it really nothing more than a wartered-down monthly competition that we already run (with "so so" amount of interest).

I think I need to think about this some more (I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure anymore).

[Ashwin]

I think I need to think about this some more (I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure anymore).

Hi Colin,

Last whole month kept all of us very very active, on participants view who were always trying to post something differently., and for those of us like me, who do not post any photographs but we were also part of the game,and ofcourse those who were analising and giving their view points we were also enjoying.

Let us have some rest or say some break. Think something differently

[PopsPhotos]

There is a distinct difference in the reason for the two different kinds of challenges.

PAD - The challenge is to get the camera into action EVERY day. Take a picture (or more) and post it, EVERY day. The challenge is to get the camera into use EVERY day. Have it with you and use it.

Monthly and Mini contests - Post a picture which pops WOW and will compete with the professionals and very advanced amateurs on this site which is WORTHY of standing alongside their work. We are competing with people who spend most of their time taking and working over pictures every day.

The driving concept behind the two types of challenge is very different, one to the other.

I spent my years from 1948 to 1955, comparing my work to that of a man who was White House photographer during WWII and shot regularly for National Geographic. I don't mind getting ignored for posting a shot which is my best effort, but far below the quality of the top people on this site. Many of our posters don't have that experience and might be reluctant to stand up and be ignored. Putting a picture up asking for advice and comments is much different from putting a picture up and saying "This is good enough to make _____ pay attention."

I think we need both types of challenges. A month of PAD is extremely wearing and might be best restricted to a couple of times a year. However, a monthly or quarterly week-long PAD, without competitive comparison, would be easier and might draw more entrants. "Post your best and compete against ____ and ____" is needed. "Take pictures and show us what you saw every day" is needed.

A couple of things I noticed in this PAD: The entrants showed that they were reaching out into areas which were previoulsy unexplored by them. I also saw definite improvement in skills and confidence in our shooters as the month progressed. Job well done!

Pops

[carregwen]

Is it possible to have an open album that we can all post to? It might be a good idea for us each to choose our favourite three shots from the 31 days of our own collection and post them to a group album (not a competition, just a group album). Just a thought.

[rick55]

First, my personal reaction to what we did. I found this to be tremendously valuable. I wanted to do something with quality each day, and I didn't want to do "yet another XYZ," so it was great incentive to stretch out, and to get off my rear and try things I've thought of trying. It's like the difference between self-study and doing a class, albeit a class where you choose your own projects. But I certainly felt pressure of deadlines, which is a good thing.

I spent far more time this month with my camera, got some really valuable practice time, and really enjoyed the entire process.

I had an advantage this time, as I was laid off a few months ago, and I'm coasting on a severance package. A job interview and associated prep made a pretty busy week (that's ongoing), so I wasn't completely free. When I'm back at a full-time job, I'm sure things will be much tougher, but I still look forward to doing this again. I might have to skip it sometimes, and I'd probably use yesterday's pictures sometimes if pressed, but I'd be very keen.

So, going forward. As far as I'm concerned, what we did this month was a pretty much ideal. I'd certainly recommend it to any of the people here who teach photography (e.g., Pops, Will). Some of the ideas of competitions and photos-of-the-week are certainly interesting. I wonder if competing would be a distraction, but I think the only way to know is to try it. I don't know if anyone could have completely predicted the outcome/feeling of this month before it started. So why not try some of the other ideas, see what works well?

Cheers,
Rick

[Dave Humphries]

Hi all,

Here are some further thoughts, based on ideas and feedback above.

This PAD did occur during a busy month for me, lots of other stuff going on at home, some only cropped up after I'd started and unlike some previous months where I had been 'using up leave', I had to work most of July. A month is a long time for a PAD and therefore Pops' idea for a weekly one is good and taking that forward, how about:

The individual members "volunteer" to 'cover' a certain week, in advance, this enables them to avoid busy weeks when they won't have as much opportunity. As a whole, we try to cover every week of the year.

I know we're not big on rules around here (thank heavens), but here's a few options to consider:
Do we want to encourage shooting and PP of one photo a day in real time?
Or will we accept a series of seven submitted a short time later? This would be handy for people going away for a holiday when they know they can shoot every day, but will not be able to PP and post every day in 'real time'.
How do we feel about more than one photo a day from a member?
How do we feel about more than one member covering a given week?

These will all have an effect on how we might administer and/or present the PAD going forward.

For example; IF we limit ourselves to only one member per week and one shot per day*, that's seven pictures in a thread, so having a quick vote like a Mini Comp becomes easy to do, this produces a "Best shot of the week", by that member. That should help them and allow their name to be 'put up in lights' somewhere on CiC - perhaps put that shot into a central album.
* or one per day, plus a 'bonus shot' for the week?

Although being 'more inclusive', having more than one member per week considerably complicates things; having too many threads with votes per week will probably result in less voting and choosing between members for a given week becomes a problem too. Or we'd have to have a PM vote like the monthlies. Just imagine trying to pick a best of the day from all the posts in the 31 July PAD threads and then coming up with an overall 'winner' - it doesn't bear thinking about and would actually be of little help to anyone.

We could still have a 'free for all' PAD like July's every so often as well of course.

Discuss ...

[Dave Humphries]

Hi Rick,

I had an advantage this time, as I was laid off a few months ago, and I'm coasting on a severance package. A job interview and associated prep made a pretty busy week (that's ongoing), so I wasn't completely free. When I'm back at a full-time job, I'm sure things will be much tougher, but I still look forward to doing this again. I might have to skip it sometimes, and I'd probably use yesterday's pictures sometimes if pressed, but I'd be very keen.

I am very grateful to you for finding the time to give good personal feedback each day to so many people in July, although it is a concern to be in that situation, for sure. Good luck with 'the hunt'.

Many thanks, from me both as a feedback recipient and as a moderator who has not had the time to feedback as often as I should and, of course, your contributions.

Cheers,

[Peter Ryan]

I really enjoyed PAD and most of the thoughts above cover my position. I did not participate in the July PAD as I came to it late – missed the boat so to speak, but I did enjoy watching the postings and comments.

Watching it progress and thinking about my position – I too work full time, I wondered if I could keep up with the regime for 1 full month and I know I would struggle. This sentiment seems to be coming through also from those you did participate.

I like the idea of PAW but once you start making it 7 images I am not sure how we can appreciate all the likely postings.

I also like the idea of a short (or low-fat PAD) run over say the first week each month. That way everyone can get themselves set for it.

Personally I am not keen on competitions, but that is just me. I know others feel it drives them on so I am happy to oblige but if it was by choice I feel many more people would participate if it was just contribute your best effort and we all learn from there.

In finishing I would just like to say 'well done Colin'.