The Prisoner (?)

[Manfred M]

While at Hospet Junction Station, waiting for the sleeper train to Bangalore, I caught this young girl staring at me from an earlier Indian Railways sleeper train, in one of the lower class sleeper compartments. Instead of air conditioning and windows, these cars have open windows with bars in front of them.

Shot at ISO 6400, f/5.6 (wide open) at 140mm (280mm FF equivalent) at 1/13th sec at 20:30 (2 hours after sunset). It is a touch soft, but given the conditions, I really like the way the shot turned out.

[rpcrowe]

Great capture. I love her blank expression. Have you thought about converting this to monochrome. I think that it would be equally as nice...

[Manfred M]

Great capture. I love her blank expression. Have you thought about converting this to monochrome. I think that it would be equally as nice...

I hadn't gotten that far, but B&W works nicely as it simplifies the shot even more. The downside is that it neutralizes the darker skin tone seen in the original and she looks less Indian.

[Shadowman]

Nice concept.

[flashback]

The downside is that it neutralizes the darker skin tone seen in the original and she looks less Indian.

So the little girl 'looking Indian' is important because you don't want her mistaken for a white girl?

[Saorsa]

So the little girl 'looking Indian' is important because you don't want her mistaken for a white girl?

What a silly thing to say.

[Manfred M]

So the little girl 'looking Indian' is important because you don't want her mistaken for a white girl?

Not quite Jack. I find that one loses a lot when one throws away colour data in an image and one has to consider the impact that makes in determining whether one should do so or not do so. This is something I mention every time someone suggests that an image might work better as a B&W image. Throwing away over 99% of the data my camera is capable of capturing is not something I tend to do lightly.

In this case, the skin tone is lost and that changes the impact of the image. This shot was taken in India and both the design of the train car and the skin tone help with the context of the image. I do lose that with the conversion,

I virtually always make the decision as to how I am going to treat the shot at the time I press the shutter release and rarely change my mind later. In this case I posted a B&W version because I wanted to demonstrate why I went the colour rather the B&W route. Looking at both versions helps explain my original intent.

I spent the first couple of years when I first got into serious photography shooting exclusively B&W, so I am quite comfortable in that genre. I find that I need a good reason to chose B&W and I do have a mental list of why I would do so. I suspect that if one went back to look at my body of work, they would find about 5% of my work is still B&W. I will go that way to simplify the image when the colours make it too busy, when I want a "period" look, when the lighting isn't going to work (often a mix of fluorescent and daylight will get me to go B&W), etc.

Here is an image that I shot in India that I did go B&W with:

Bangalore Barber Shop

This was a case of where the poor quality of light was the determining factor (cool white fluorescent + daylight mixed lighting). The shot still looks like it might be India, in spite of the conversion.

The B&W image works, but I find that I lose to much by going that way, so I think my original view of sticking with colour was the right one for me.

[FootLoose]

Nice catch, Manfred, it's a good composition. I prefer the first version because the colours work well together. There a couple of light spots on the right side, 2nd quarter that might be better toned down a little - woman's earring and the blue arc in the space beneath her chin

[mugge]

The B&W version for me. More powerful, it is her expression not her colour that makes this a good shot.
Cheers Ole

[RBSinTo]

Manfred,
I like this very much.
Wonderful composition and subject and the grain (I understand you Digivolk call it noise) adds a nice touch to the picture.
Of the two versions, I prefer the colour shot because the colour harmony of the various elements works well and adds a certain dimension, but even more so, because the black and white image seems to lack the contrast of the other and so in my opinion is not as strong.
Robert

[flashback]

In this case, the skin tone is lost and that changes the impact of the image. This shot was taken in India and both the design of the train car and the skin tone help with the context of the image. I do lose that with the conversion,

Manfred, I do understand your logic as to whether or not you'll convert an image to B&W. And I can agree with you that B&W may not always do an image justice. My point was that your thinking that the girl looked less Indian seemed to me irrelevant and perhaps an unnecessary comment. In fact Ole (below) really said it better than I did,
"More powerful, it is her expression not her colour that makes this a good shot. Cheers Ole " I really think Ole hit it on the mark.

[flashback]

What a silly thing to say.

Brian, very sorry. Moving forward I can copy you first with my comments/questions and you can let me know beforehand if you think they're silly.

[Saorsa]

Brian, very sorry. Moving forward I can copy you first with my comments/questions and you can let me know beforehand if you think they're silly.

If you are using a leading question to imply racism in another contributor, don't bother.

[flashback]

If you are using a leading question to imply racism in another contributor, don't bother.

Let me get this straight, you are accusing me of accusing Manfred of being racist? Perhaps the issue is with neither Manfred nor myself but rather is an issue you perhaps need to deal with. Feel free to private message me if you have further issues but let's not take up Manfred's post on y̶o̶u̶r̶ this nonsense.

[Manfred M]

Manfred, I do understand your logic as to whether or not you'll convert an image to B&W. And I can agree with you that B&W may not always do an image justice. My point was that your thinking that the girl looked less Indian seemed to me irrelevant and perhaps an unnecessary comment. In fact Ole (below) really said it better than I did,
"More powerful, it is her expression not her colour that makes this a good shot. Cheers Ole " I really think Ole hit it on the mark.

Jack - I guess I don't quite understand where you are coming from.

The image was shot in India and to me that means that the context that I am trying to present in the shot is that this a shot taken in India (or at least not in a Western country). Something that makes the image more difficult for the viewer to place it is not a good thing, in my mind, so the more clues that the viewer picks up, the better. I do feel I lose this in the B&W version; the girl goes from looking like a young Indian girl to a more generic young girl. Had she been wearing traditional clothing, then I think I might have been able to pull it off.

If you are using a leading question to imply racism in another contributor, don't bother.

Brian - I certainly did not view Jack's as a racist comment any more than my original statement was. I feel that we just have a difference of opinion on the impact of the conversion. As mentioned previously, it is important to me that people see the girl as being Indian as opposed to be a generic girl.

[flashback]

Manfred, in a shot as the one we're discussing, to me it's the image itself that's important, the location is secondary. While I don't
'get it' (that the image needs to be identified as having been taken in India), it's your shot and certainly your prerogative to present it in a context of your choosing. And maybe the image speaks differently, to different people if it's known where it was taken. Regardless it's still a great shot. (And I still prefer the B&W)
Cheers

[pnodrog]

So the little girl 'looking Indian' is important because you don't want her mistaken for a white girl?

What a silly thing to say.

My first reaction was that it was a silly comment. However having been to India I did find that the colour version helped in conveying to me the location and environment. The child's expression comes across equally well in either version.

I prefer the colour version and I don't think the current fashion for B&W should override the photographers logical preference.

[thegman]

Manfred,very nice shot, I prefer your original colour version. Helps tell more of the story location.

[KimC]

What a beautifully powerful image Manfred. For me, it's the color version... color makes my eyes want to search the scene to learn about this beautiful little girl and where she is.

[Dave A]

Her expression really makes the shot, nicely done Manfred.

Dave