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Thread: Some help needed

  1. #1
    jordand's Avatar
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    Some help needed

    Some help needed

    Straight from the camera Jpeg file.

    Some help needed

    Jpeg processed from RAW file in ACR and CS6.

    The bird stood on the wire about 3-4 meters away and doesn’t seem to care much about my presence.
    I had the time to check my settings and took about forty shots. I used Nikon D7000 with Tamron 70-300 USD VC
    My settings were: f/5.6, 1/60. 100 ISO, spot metering, VC(VR) on.
    The problem is that all the shots look a bit fizzy.
    I know 1/60 is relatively low speed at 300mm (actually 450mm on APS-C camera), but for some of the shots the bird was completely still and I had the chance to lean my elbows on a concrete wall.
    So, what might be the reason for the fuzziness?
    Is it bad shooting technique, inappropriate settings, the need of focus fine tune or something else?

  2. #2
    AlwaysOnAuto's Avatar
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    Re: Some help needed

    I shoot a D7000 too, so will try to help.
    Does your lens auto focus?
    What is the minimum focus distance?

  3. #3

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    Re: Some help needed

    You didn't mention whether you used autofocus or manual focus. If you used autofocus and if your D7000 is configured to capture the image whether or not focus is achieved, that might be the explanation. If you used auto focus and then repositioned your camera even only slightly, that could have caused the bird to go out of focus because of the very small depth of field.

    Indeed, both the image and EXIF data indicate to me that you used a very small depth of field. Notice, as an example, that the wire the bird is standing on has only a very tiny area that is the sharpest area. Also notice that that area is not very sharp even though it is the sharpest area of the wire.

    So, my best guess is that you didn't focus properly. Check out a depth of field chart to fully appreciate the small depth of field you used shooting at only 3 - 4 meters away while using a 300mm focal length.

    As for other settings to consider, I would use Aperture Priority and Auto ISO to take this shot. As for the Auto ISO, I would configure the camera at its base ISO value of 100, the maximum ISO of 6400, and the minimum shutter speed of whatever you feel comfortable with when using a 300mm focal length and VR.
    Last edited by Mike Buckley; 11th April 2016 at 03:19 PM.

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    Moderator Manfred M's Avatar
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    Re: Some help needed

    You are likely seeing a combination of motion blur and a shallow depth of field. You are shooting at 1/60th sec at a 300mm focal length (450mm FF equivalent). Even with VR this is too slow for a high level of sharpness.

    The other and more important issue is that at that focal length your depth of field is razor thin at f/5.6 (1cm at 3m). Look at what the wire looks like on either side of the bird - out of focus, so I would expect parts of the bird to be a bit soft too.

    Play around with a DoF calculator to see how little room you have to work with.

    https://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tu...calculator.htm

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    Re: Some help needed

    By the way, I noticed that your color space is Adobe RGB. Your best bet is to always use sRGB when posting to the Internet. Otherwise, people using a browser that is not color-managed or does not manage color well will see different colors than you intend.

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    Re: Some help needed

    Manfred mentioned the most basic thing which is your shutter speed. Lens manufacturers claim three or four stops effectiveness for vibration reduction but you can't count on that. You mentioned that you were leaning on something which helps. And maybe you have really steady hands. If both of those are true then maybe you can count on the full effectiveness of the VC lens. In which case you were still pretty borderline at 1/60. With that relatively high resolution digital body you're shooting you can forget about the conventional starting point for ss of 1/focal length. With that body best cut that in half. So with 450mm effective focal length that starts you at least at 1/800. If the VR is good for three stops that puts you at 1/125s. And that's in a perfect world assuming the VC/VR is actually as good as claimed.

    Overall shooting with that lens, wide open, and handheld, you're asking a lot to get any better than what you have here.

  7. #7
    Moderator Manfred M's Avatar
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    Re: Some help needed

    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernFocus View Post
    With that relatively high resolution digital body you're shooting you can forget about the conventional starting point for ss of 1/focal length.
    What most people who don't come from the film days forget about that "rule" is that it was based on looking at an A4 / 8" x 10" print from a distance of around 30cm / 12" from a 35mm (i.e. Full Frame sized) negative.

    Change those parameters and that old rule goes out the window too. With a crop frame camera, you have to add the crop factor into the calculation and to be frank, I rarely look at any image that is A4 / 8" x 10" size. My computer screen (even on my laptop) is a lot larger than that.
    Last edited by Manfred M; 11th April 2016 at 04:25 PM.

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    Re: Some help needed

    For this kind of shot I would not use aperture larger than f/11. So that's two stops less light than you had but double the DoF: from 1" to 2". Going f/16 might be an overkill due to the IQ loss because of diffraction and a higher ISO required. So f/11... f/13 at a push.

    Then I would try shooting at 1/120s ISO800 rather than 1/240s ISO1600 and keep my fingers crossed that the VR is doing its job. Except if it is windy and the wire is going back and forth, then it might be a good idea to crank the shutter speed up a bit and either loose some DoF or push the ISO up again.

    And keep shooting till the bird flies away. That is often less than one shot
    Last edited by dem; 12th April 2016 at 09:05 AM.

  9. #9
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    Re: Some help needed

    I don't know about your Tamron but, 1/60 second @ 300mm is well withing the range of possibility for my new Canon 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II lens. However, I would rather shoot at a bit faster shutter speed, even if I needed to boost the ISO.

    I always shoot in RAW and open the image in Adobe Camera RAW but, don't do any sharpening in ACR... I do my entry sharpening using the NIK RAW Presharpener. I then frequently use NIK Viveza Structure slider for much of my sharpening.

    Some help needed

    It looks like the focus point may have been on the tail feathers.

    I copied your image and applied NIK Viveza Structure at 30% on the bird.

  10. #10
    William W's Avatar
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    Re: Some help needed

    I agree that it is likely a combination of issues and yes if you want an heading to place those issues under it is 'bad technique', in so far as you did not leverage your advantages.

    The major considerations have been mentioned, but below is a check list:

    1a. Shutter Speed - VR is irrelevant for Subject Motion Blur, best practice assumes no subject is "still" unless dead and under three tonnes of concrete - as only one example at 1/60sec the bird's feathers could easily be compromised with a gentle breeze. The same issue is often seen in Landscape Photography when using a solid tripod - "the scene looks fuzzy but I used a tripod, remote release and had mirror up" - but the very gentle wind was blowing the leaves . . . suggestions 1/500s would be safe, 1/250s would be OK for many shots, 1/125s if absolutely necessary.

    1b. Shutter Speed - as it is relevant to Camera Shake. As already alluded with VR on and at 1/60s we might assume an "equivalence of shooting at 1/250 or 1/500s" apropos Camera Shake - BUT the kicker is that is all a Rule of Thumb and considering that your Subject Distance is quite short and therefore any small camera movement which is not alleviated by the VR mechanism will be more likely to show up as blur, than if the Subject were a greater distance away from the camera.

    2. Aperture: impacts upon DoF. I am working on site and with a small laptop and do not have access to my interrogative tools but at F/5.6 and at that framing the DoF will be shallow. Even without full forensic interrogation the Shallow DoF seems evident by the OoF aspects of the wire on which the bird sits (already mentioned). Suggest for that shot around F/11 to F/16 would be much safer.

    3. Sweet spot of lens's sharpness: Certainly not F/5.6 for that lens - suggest it is probably around F/8 to F/11

    4. Use of Filters: if used then possibility of Veiling Flare, especially so when shooting into a bright background. Suggest remove any filters.

    5. Possibility of Focus Error (lens): prima facie the lens could be back focussing, the tail feathers appear sharper than the chest, again I reiterate that I do not have my full cache of interrogative tools, but on first glance I think this is so. Suggest you make controlled test of lens (on TRIPOD) for Focus Accuracy AT those SHORT FOCUS DISTANCES.

    6. Possibility of focus error (camera): as already mentioned the AF point and type of AF used is an important consideration. No specific suggestion on this matter due to lack of detailed expertise with Nikon AF systems and functionalities.

    7. Summary: better leverage of that shooting scenario would certainly have been attained by pulling the shot at something like: F/11 @ 1/125 @ ISO800 or F/8 @ 1/250 @ ISO800 or if at all windy and you compute a really shallow DoF - then F/11 @ 1/250 @ ISO1600

    WW
    Last edited by William W; 12th April 2016 at 12:08 AM.

  11. #11

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    Re: Some help needed

    I have the Tamron and shoot birds at times. The key here is shutter speed. Birds are living things and so are you. So, I would use the vc to stabilize the image in my viewfinder but shoot at a more optimal shutter speed starting at 1/250. I use af-c and back button focus to assure that any final movement of the bird or just me slightly rocking in place is accounted for. Yes, it is possible to get sharp shots even slower than 1/60 at 300mm with that lens and even a 24mp body (my D7100) but that takes practice and a subject you don't mind blurring if you err. Wildlife is not so forgiving so boost your shutter speed.

    After you try that out, I would also examine the difference you get stopping down to f8. That is a sweeter f stop for this lens and you may notice a difference.

    Keep posting as you try different things but try the shutter speed change first.

    Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

  12. #12
    Didereaux's Avatar
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    Re: Some help needed

    Quote Originally Posted by jordand View Post
    Some help needed

    Straight from the camera Jpeg file.

    Some help needed

    Jpeg processed from RAW file in ACR and CS6.

    The bird stood on the wire about 3-4 meters away and doesn’t seem to care much about my presence.
    I had the time to check my settings and took about forty shots. I used Nikon D7000 with Tamron 70-300 USD VC
    My settings were: f/5.6, 1/60. 100 ISO, spot metering, VC(VR) on.
    The problem is that all the shots look a bit fizzy.
    I know 1/60 is relatively low speed at 300mm (actually 450mm on APS-C camera), but for some of the shots the bird was completely still and I had the chance to lean my elbows on a concrete wall.
    So, what might be the reason for the fuzziness?
    Is it bad shooting technique, inappropriate settings, the need of focus fine tune or something else?
    Considering your Dof was about 1-1.5" and your shutter speed would blur a sick snail...I think you should be quite satisfied with what you got!

  13. #13
    jordand's Avatar
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    Re: Some help needed

    Thank you all for the advices.Thifs is what the DoF calculator shows for the settings in question.
    Some help needed
    3.5 cm is about 1/4 of the size of the bird.
    In summary, too shallow and too slow.

  14. #14

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    Re: Some help needed

    I won't repeat the good advice in the previous replies but I will add two points.
    1. Even in a light breeze that cable will sway and add to your woes.
    2. If you have no other option than to shoot with those less than ideal settings then shoot in burst mode; out of half a dozen shots you might get one that's sharp. (Digital film is cheap. )

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