I can do many things with the P mode using my xxD and xD Canon DSLR cameras that I couldn't do with the full auto mode.
Note: I have never concerned myself with the morphodite "Creative Auto" mode available in some Canon cameras.
This is what I can do in P mode and cannot do in full auto mode. This is true of all the xxD and xD cameras I have owned: D60, 10D, 30D, 40D, 7D and 5DII. My one fling into the Rebel Canon line, the 350D, was a very short and unhappy relationship - mainly due to the lack of the two dial system...
1. I can shoot in RAW (which I ALWAYS do)
2. I can select my ISO
3. I can run the gamut of shutter speed/Aperture combinations using the main dial
4. I can adjust the exposure + or - EV with the quick control dial
NOTE: The availability of these two dials with which I can make major exposure adjustments or focus selections using my shooting finger or thumb of my shooting hand is one of the greatest advantages of the xD and xxD Canon cameras over the Canon Rebel line as well as many other brands of cameras.
5. By pressing the ISO button (next to the shutter release) I can adjust the ISO (through the entire range of ISO capabilty - including Auto ISO) using the main dial, also without taking the eye from the viewfinder.
6. I can choose my drive mode by pressing the AF/Drive button (second from the right atop the camera) and rotating the Quick Control Dial.
This might be the time to explain the use of the Canon dual purpose buttons on the applicable cameras. When a button is marked with two functions, like "AF-Drive"; the main control dial (atop the camera) controls the first listed function (in this case AF) and the rear quick control dial controls the second listed function (in this case Drive). I can easily rotate the main dial with the index finger of my right hand and rotate the Quick Control Dial (which I prefer to call the "Secondary Dial") with my right thumb.
7. I can choose my focus point by pressing the AF button with my shooting thumb and using the quick select button.
8. I can select my Auto focus mode (one shot - AI Focus - AI Servo) by pressing the AF button
9. By pressing the ISO/Flash compensation button, I can select flash compensation using my right thumb
10. I can use AEB (Auto Exposure Bracketing)
The above selections are all visible in the viewfinder...
In light of the above, IMO, anyone who states that "P" mode is basically the same as "full auto" mode, has never used the P mode to its fullest capacity.
I can do virtually all my camera controlling with a combination of right index finger and right thumb with the camera up to my eye. It is a fast and convenient way of shooting.
BY the way... The two dial system works in other shooting modes. As an example, in Manual exposure mode, the main dial controls the shutter speed while the secondary dial controls the f/stop...
This is handy when using fill flash outdoors in Manual - Aperture Priority - Shutter speed priority and Programmed modes. The shutter speed will determine the ambient light exposure while the f/stop controls the flash exposure. You can control these two functions individually using the two dial system.
There is also a joystick with which to adjust controls but, I seldom use that while the camera is up to my eye...
Note: I need to look at the mode dial when shifting modes. This is not a function I wish to do with the camera up to my eye...
P Mode
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20th April 2016, 04:22 PMrpcroweDifference between P Mode and ful auto mode
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20th April 2016, 05:46 PMgeorge013Re: Difference between P Mode and ful auto modeYou do that with your camera.:)Quote:
Originally Posted by rpcrowe
George -
20th April 2016, 05:51 PMBlack PearlRe: Difference between P Mode and ful auto mode
I use whichever mode will make the process of getting the result I want the easiest - that might be PASM depending on the situation. I don't think one is better than the other and I never judge others by the modes they use.
I find the common "I only ever shoot manual" statement very odd and rather baffling and equally I think if you have read your manual and actually understand what you are doing and your equipment is doing then you are more likely to use the cameras automation and not less as some would have it. -
20th April 2016, 06:29 PMrpcroweRe: Difference between P Mode and ful auto mode
Robin, I like the term PASM and will probably steal it for future use...
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20th April 2016, 07:03 PMdjeRe: Difference between P Mode and ful auto mode
I've never been interested in P mode but after reading this thread I had a look at it on my Nikon (D610). It has a feature called Flexible P mode which is probably similar to Canon's Program Shift mode that Bill mentioned. If you are in P mode (and not in auto ISO), and move the rear control wheel, the P changes to P* and you can change SS and F stop in sync (maintaining the same exposure). The same thing happens in P mode in my Sony a6000. Frankly I can't see much different between this and A or S mode but to each his own.
Dave -
20th April 2016, 07:19 PMDanKRe: Difference between P Mode and ful auto modemy thoughts (plural) exactly.Quote:
Frankly I can't see much different between this and A or S mode but to each his own.
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20th April 2016, 07:25 PMgeorge013Re: Difference between P Mode and ful auto modeI always could change the settings in P-mode, maintaining the same exposure. One wheel is used for that, the other wheel I can give a EV correction. D700.Quote:
Originally Posted by dje
The difference between A and S is , that in A and S you start with a selected value. As I said many times before, as long you follow the lightmeter there is no difference in exposure value between M,A,S or P.
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20th April 2016, 07:35 PMrpcroweRe: Difference between P Mode and ful auto mode
As a fellow Navy photographer who was using the first automatic film SLR camera I ever saw (Pentax ME - which was actually aperture priority) said, "I don't really know what the difference between matching a needle to a certain spot in the viewfinder and letting the camera do it for you is. If you know what you and your camera are doing, the results will be pretty much the same and the auto guy isn't any less professional than the needle matcher:eek:"
BTW: I considered him to be an excellent photographer and his images proved he was every bit as skilled as those he labeled "needle matcher:D"
I will definitely select either Aperture Priority or Shutter Priority when I need to keep one of the values of (shutter speed or aperture) constant and I will switch to manual when I want both values constant as in images for HDR or when I am shooting with studio strobes. Manual also has a place in BIF photography when the bird not the sky is the most important value. In BIF photography, you don't want the background to influence the exposure on the bird as you pan along following it in flight... -
20th April 2016, 09:14 PMManfred MRe: P Mode
Unfortunately we have an article from another photographer who seems to understand less about photography than he should. In photography the tools and the image that is produced are intimately linked. One has to understand the advantages and shortcomings of the choices one makes and the decision to use "P" mode versus fully manual or one of the semi-automated modes (aperture priority and shutter priority) can and does have an impact on the final image.
When a "traditional" artist who sees a scene and decides to do it with traditional oil paints, acrylic paints, water colour, pastels or charcoal, he or she will end up with a completely different image. The same can go for creative choices made by the photographer as shutter speed, aperture settings and ISO all affect the final image. The article's author does seem to understand that with regards to the use of slow shutter speeds as a compositional choice, but does not extend this to the point that fast shutter speeds, ISO settings or choice of aperture also impact the image one produces. In fact, I choose these parameters consciously and have found that P mode makes different exposure choices than I so. In fact, it takes longer to override the choices in P mode than shooting in one of the other modes.
I did not understand why anyone would use P mode until I started doing street photography. I have found that I use it when I shoot with my Panasonic GX7, but virtually never use it when I shot the Nikon D800. In fact i, I don't think I have ever used it other than to test it. At a high level, I can't shoot as quickly and accurately with the GX7 as the D800, so going to P mode is a work that lets me get a shot, in spite of the camera's limitations.
The whole manual versus automatic transmission versus an electric in a car is not at all relevant and is not a good analogy for what he is trying to explain. It shows that he understands car powertrains as little as he understands cameras. -
20th April 2016, 09:27 PMManfred MRe: Difference between P Mode and ful auto modeAgree 100% when it comes to exposure.Quote:
Originally Posted by george013
However, from a shooting perspective (assuming I need to get a shot off).
1. Manual is the slowest to set up as I have to set both the shutter speed and aperture and get a meter reading to take the shot.
2. The semi-automatic modes of aperture priority and shutter priority are faster to set up, but I still have to dial in the shutter speed when shooting shutter priority or the aperture setting when I shoot aperture priority. This tends to be a bit faster than shooting 100% manual.
3. Program mode is the fastest of all three modes. All I have to do is compose, focus and shoot. This is really fast, BUT I have to live with the choices the camera software made and these are frequently not the choices I would have made were I shooting in manual or semi-automatic mode. This usually means I get a decent image, but not necessarily the best image. -
20th April 2016, 09:32 PMDanKRe: P ModeMy thinking exactly.Quote:
In fact, it takes longer to override the choices in P mode than shooting in one of the other modes.
I don't do much street photography, but I can see your point. This is off-topic, but this is one reason why I chose a Lumix LX100 for my tiny carry-it-anywhere camera. It has physical controls for aperture and shutter speed (a ring on the lens for the former and a knob on the top for the latter, like the film cameras I learned on). To use aperture or shutter priority, you just set the control for whichever you want to let the camera control to an "A" setting. It also has a physical knob for EC. I do have to go into a menu for ISO, but ISO is a top-level menu with its own button, so it is very fast, and I almost always leave the camera at its base ISO anyway. I can control the camera almost as quickly as I can control my regular SLRs.Quote:
I did not understand why anyone would use P mode until I started doing street photography. I have found that I use it when I shoot with my Panasonic GX7, but virtually use it when I shot the Nikon D800. At a high level, I can't shoot as quickly and accurately with the GX7 as the D800, so going to P mode is a work that lets me get a shot, in spite of the camera's limitations.
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20th April 2016, 09:38 PMMike BuckleyRe: Difference between P Mode and ful auto mode
My thinking is that being aware of my surroundings and the type of photo I hope to capture, using either Aperture Priority or Shutter Priority to accommodate the situation will be just as fast as using Program mode and probably more reliable when it comes to the choices I would make if I had the time to make them. The worst-case situation is that using my camera settings made with effective judgement in advance using Aperture Priority or Shutter Priority will come at least as close to settings the camera would make on its own. Using Program mode would be no faster in that situation. There is then the potential for the advance settings to be better than the settings the camera would make on its own in Program mode.
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20th April 2016, 10:04 PMAlwaysOnAutoRe: Difference between P Mode and ful auto mode
Uh, gee, I don't think I've ever used P-mode on my D7000.
Maybe I should try it? -
20th April 2016, 10:06 PMManfred MRe: Difference between P Mode and ful auto modeIn most of the non-street photography / "opportunistic" photography situations I work in, this is 100% correct and also the way I work. My standard work flow is:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Buckley
1. Assess the scene and choose the appropriate ISO setting;
2. Look at the scene and determine whether aperture setting or shutter speed setting is going to be the determining criterion for the shot and select either A or S mode;
3. Dial in the appropriate aperture or shutter speed selection for the shot;
4. Apply exposure compensation, if required;
5. Frame the shot (preliminary framing);
6. Focus and lock focus / exposure (most of my shooting is with a single centre focus point and back-button focus);
7. Reframe the shot; and
8. Press the shutter release.
Although I can run through these eight steps quite quickly, the whole setup does take a second or two. ISO has generally been dialed in and I'm probably shooting aperture priority so the camera will be set for that anyway, but the other steps will still occur.
The problem with street / opportunistic type shots is that the subject can be in a lighting situation that is totally different than I am ready for. I could be waiting to take a shot that is out in the open, when I spot something happening inside a building or in a brightly illuminated area. If the subject is at all mobile, I will try to fire off a few shots to get the bet image, and I won't have time to set up everything in the camera.
With the D800, I can make all the changes without ever taking my eye off the viewfinder, so I will be changing shooting parameters while I am composing.
The limitations of the GX7 don't let me do that. A special menu button is needed to change ISO, a display pops up in the viewfinder to show me the shutter speed or aperture changes I am dialing in (it takes a fraction of a second for this to pop up and the display is a bit too complex, so it takes another fraction of a second to digest the information and set it to where I want it). The contrast detect autofocus is slower than phase detect and another fraction of a second is lost. With P mode, all I have to do is point and shoot (and hope that the shooting parameters are good enough). -
21st April 2016, 12:30 AMrpcroweRe: Difference between P Mode and ful auto mode
By the way... I looked at the Petapixel images and they are to me pretty awful... That's what I meant in another post when I said. "IMO, much street photography is simply pure out-of-focus, fuzzy, and badly exposed crap that is given legitimacy by labeling it as "street photography".
Lot's of Cartier Bresson's images were technically pretty sad also but he was able to catch the decisive moment in most cases... -
21st April 2016, 01:22 AMManfred MRe: Difference between P Mode and ful auto modeI wish this were true for the GX7. The camera has quite of few of the same adjustments as on the DSLR, including a dual dial system. The problem is really more related to the small size of the camera, which limits the real estate the camera designer can work with. This means that functions assigned to buttons on the D800 and other pro / semi-pro cameras are menu selection items on the GX7. Smaller is not always better.Quote:
Originally Posted by DanK
Another issue is that the GX7 is more of a consumer level camera, so with its retro look, the designers also seem to be more concerned with looks than functionality at time. The buttons are small and not as easy to find by feel along. The pro and semi-pro cameras are much better designed this way as it is far easier to use tactile landmarks to identify and use the camera controls without ever having to take ones eye of the viewfinder.
There is a "Quick Menu" button that in theory provides fast and easy access to some of the key menu functions that can be accessed and (in theory) changed without taking ones eye off the viewfinder. I might like it better if the button were in a location where I wasn't at risk of poking my eye out, and frankly it is easier to actually use the functionality while holding the camera away and viewing things on the LCD screen.
I noticed all of these issues when I first bought the camera, but thought that things would improve with experience. Some two years later and 20,000+ images taken with it, I've concluded my original assessments were correct all along.
While it may sound that I'm running down the camera, I'm not. It's a good camera and I can get excellent images out of it (otherwise I would have sold it by now). It's simply that I've learned what I can and cannot do with this camera and have developed work-arounds for some of the issues. For other issues, I know there are certain types of shots I'm not going to be able to get, so I don't even bother trying. -
21st April 2016, 01:35 AMManfred MRe: Difference between P Mode and ful auto modeOne of the first things I do when I read comments on any website, is to look at the author's work. If it is something I find good from both a technical and compositional standpoint, this gives the writer credibility, to my mind. If on the other hand, the work is not particularly good or if the article contains technical errors, I will take that into account in accessing the credibility of the author and his or her opinions.Quote:
Originally Posted by rpcrowe
I remember looking at some of Robert Cappa's work and thinking the same thing. What you write is correct, but then if we look back at typical images of the day taken with similar equipment and film I'd have to say some of the issues are definitely related to the limits of the technology at the time. We have definitely been spoiled by the capabilities of modern digital cameras.Quote:
Originally Posted by rpcrowe
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21st April 2016, 01:38 AMMike BuckleyRe: Difference between P Mode and ful auto modeI gotta disagree. They weren't technically sad for the time and available technology.Quote:
Originally Posted by rpcrowe
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21st April 2016, 03:03 AMrpcroweRe: Difference between P Mode and ful auto modeYou are right on that matter but, Bresson's images are still alive and viable today because he was the master of the decisive moment!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Buckley
However, images did not have to be technically excellent in those days. As an example Robert Capa's images of the D-Day landings which were damaged because of the processing (no fault of Capa) but are still shown and published today.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Robe...iw=960&bih=473 -
21st April 2016, 03:29 AMMike BuckleyRe: Difference between P Mode and ful auto modeI gotta disagree again. To say that photography in the four decades spanning 1930s through the 1960s didn't have to be technically excellent doesn't make any sense to me. To say that is to say that a period lasting one-third of the entire history of photography at the time didn't have to be technically excellent. Similarly, that is to say that some of the most famous photographers using Leica cameras, photographers along with HCB who co-founded Magnum and others who became members of Magnum, and the photographers hired by the magazines such as Life with the largest circulations in the world didn't have to produce photographs that were technically excellent. The list of similar statements about photography of the time all over the world goes on and on. In my mind, your assessment is a misleading generalization that doesn't pass the test of viewing vast collections now held in the most famous museums of photography in the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by rpcrowe