A different source of potential income - but how to price oneself?

[dubaiphil]

I have had the opportunity to sell prints from time to time - it's not something that I actively pursue but is welcome all the same. I noticed a lot of traffic recently to my site from a couple of visitors from Spain, and then received an interesting e-mail this morning.

The company is working with the Government of Dubai to produce videos for an upcoming museum and would like to some of my images as part of the audiovisual material associated with the launch.

Now the bit that I have no experience of - they are asking for information on the prices of my images and conditions of use.

So I'm fine with my pricing strategy for physical prints, but does anyone have any advice or experience to share for use of digital files in this way?

[Manfred M]

When you sell a print, you add the cost of the physical print into the mix, plus the work you do to produce it (plus of course any markup). Deduct that from the selling price. That should leave the rest of your cost structure and markup in place.

This is also easy to present in an invoice to the buyer. If multiple prints are sold, there might be a discount based on the size of the order. Again, I would invoice the individual images, but then apply a discount to the total (likely as a percentage off the base total price).

[ionian]

Being flippant for a second - remember that your client has lots of money (their police cars are Lamborghinis and Bugatti veyrons, for goodness sake)!

Being more sensible, you also need to establish if they want exclusive use of the images or if you retain copyright. This could also affect pricing, as eclusive rights is a one time sale and this should be factored in to your mark-up.

[chauncey]

Being flippant for a second - remember that your client has lots of money

I don't think it's flippant at all...they're the folks that imported the entire KelbyOne team to their shores.

[Donald]

There has been discussion on here in the past re photographic contracts. Issues to deal with:-

• Copyright - Never give it up. It remains with you
• Exclusivity of usage rights (if they want exclusive use, double the price)
• Usage rights. Do they get to use your images for whatever they want, or it it for one specific project/event, in one particular medium? Or are they going to put them online AND print them in publications? Contract should say how and where they will be used.
• Price = Cost + 223%. Don't ask my where that figure came from . Someone explained it once, but it does seem to be a rate that's used.

A search online should provide some templates for contracts.

[Mike Buckley]

Price = Cost + 223%.

What are the components of cost?

[Donald]

What are the components of cost?

For me, you'd be thinking:-

• Time (and even thought we might be amateurs, we should price our time at a realistic rate)
• Materials (if we're just selling an electronic file then we don't have paper and ink costs)

[Shadowman]

What are the components of cost?

The hardest to include would be the cost of your time, that would include hours spent doing the job (easier to calculate for a specific job rather than images captured over time), time editing. I used to have a template for establishing an hourly rate for your time, I'll see if I can find it. This link has good examples.

http://www.salary.com/advice/layouth...67_Par150.html

[rpcrowe]

I am a terrible business person, but I have one suggestion.

Your images of the markets in Dubai and the people therein are really top-notch. IMO they belong in a book that could be sold in airports, the museum and various other tourist oriented areas.

Even though I am a photographer and don't desire to buy other photographer's prints, except for those of famous photographers which I cannot afford to purchase; if I were a visitor to Dubai, I am sure that I would want to carry home a book of your images. In fact, even though I have never been to Dubai (and will probably never visit there) I would be one of the first to purchase a copy of your book.

However, since , "The company is working with the Government of Dubai to produce videos for an upcoming museum and would like to some of my images as part of the audiovisual material associated with the launch." Would the exposure and publicity be important to your future plans? If the publicity generated would be financially profitable, could not taking a lesser sum for the use of your photos be worthwhile.

See, I told you I am a lousy business person

[Mike Buckley]

If the publicity generated would be financially profitable, could not taking a lesser sum for the use of your photos be worthwhile.

Rarely. He already mentioned that he has not been actively promoting his photography, so the so-called increased exposure wouldn't be of any help. I actually doubt that there would be any effective exposure.

See, I told you I am a lousy business person

We agree.

[dubaiphil]

Thanks for your comments, guys.

This is not as simple as a print sale, and so I have asked a few questions to get the ball rolling which can affect my pricing accordingly

Are the videos for on-line distribution or purely for display in the museum?
Are the videos running for the launch of the museum, or as an ongoing display?
Do they wish to purchase exclusive rights for a fixed time period, or indefinitely (I would be willing to sell indefinitely if they're not images which I have a particular affinity to, but otherwise would price for a fixed time period)?
Will the images be used purely for the video, or through any other marketing media?
How many and which images they would be interested in?
What is their media budget for the contract?

These should let me gauge how to price myself. Fingers crossed!

[Donald]

Keep us updated, Phil. Would love to know how this gets concluded.

[dubaiphil]

Well they've got back to me with 6 images that they are initially interested in. 3 of characters in markets (which aren't any of my favourites, funnily enough) and 3 of places in Dubai.

A couple of points so far:

1. They're looking for 10 years exclusivity or full rights ownership.
2. 1 of the places images is taken in a museum courtyard - I've contacted the Dubai Culture office to see about image rights and selling images - whether permission is necessary etc
3. The last has the cynic in me wincing a bit - they'd like to obtain the 6 images to add into their video and arrange licensing and payment once signed off by the client. If not used, the images will be eliminated and never used.

[Mike Buckley]

That last point would certainly motivate me to check out the reputation and credibility of the company. I would also want to know if that's a standard practice in the industry.

As an example of a different way of doing business, I was contacted by a company that was putting a media project together for their client. They had selected one of my images seen here at CiC and wanted to know if I would be willing to provide it to them for their use. They explained up front that the client had not seen the image, much less approved the final media project and would get back to me to negotiate a price if the client was interested. They never asked for temporary use of my image. I never heard from the company again and have no idea if their project was ever completed, all of which was in keeping with one of the possibilities explained to me.

[Saorsa]

Well they've got back to me with 6 images that they are initially interested in. 3 of characters in markets (which aren't any of my favourites, funnily enough) and 3 of places in Dubai.

A couple of points so far:

1. They're looking for 10 years exclusivity or full rights ownership.
2. 1 of the places images is taken in a museum courtyard - I've contacted the Dubai Culture office to see about image rights and selling images - whether permission is necessary etc
3. The last has the cynic in me wincing a bit - they'd like to obtain the 6 images to add into their video and arrange licensing and payment once signed off by the client. If not used, the images will be eliminated and never used.

Perhaps you need a two tiered license in this case. The first solely for the use in the developmental video at some nominal price. Perhaps equal to a good sized print sale. The second would be for subsequent use and should be priced at a much higher rate. That way, you get rewarded for your work and they don't need to pay if the images are not used in the final product.

I wouldn't worry about credits although it's nice to have. Nobody watchs them at the end of a video and if it's used in marketing presentations the projector will be moved to other subjects before they even get shown.

[William W]

. . . The company is working with the Government of Dubai to produce videos for an upcoming museum and would like to some of my images as part of the audiovisual material associated with the launch. . .

and

. . . They're looking for 10 years exclusivity or full rights ownership. . .

Either you’ve made an error representing what exactly what they initially described as the purpose for the purchase – or they are playing ducks and drakes. I find it hard to believe that any advertising /marketing consultant would really require 10 years exclusivity for stills media material, solely used for a part of a museum launch.

I don’t think you make many mistakes transcribing the gist of what was written.

*

. . . they'd like to obtain the 6 images to add into their video and arrange licensing and payment once signed off by the client. If not used, the images will be eliminated and never used.

Assume this means that they want the six final Hi-Quality Res files for inclusion to the video?

*

Did they answer your question regarding the budget?

*

On what has been disclosed, I might make a quick glancing investigation about the company, but probably not: I think I would be pricing this potential purchase with, what I term a “no follow up policy”.

Something like: they can purchase the images with rights (insert however many years you want) for inclusion in this particular video and then it is their job to sell their creation to THEIR client.

The purchase price of the six images and publication rights is: $X. Terms: 50% up front and 50% on delivery of the files.

I would price 50% of the total price so that I would be happy if I didn’t get the second 50% and if the images were used in perpetuity and in any manner. Therefore I would be happy and I would never would have to “follow up”. (i.e. begin legal proceedings).

WW

[dubaiphil]

Perhaps you need a two tiered license in this case. The first solely for the use in the developmental video at some nominal price. Perhaps equal to a good sized print sale. The second would be for subsequent use and should be priced at a much higher rate. That way, you get rewarded for your work and they don't need to pay if the images are not used in the final product.

I wouldn't worry about credits although it's nice to have. Nobody watchs them at the end of a video and if it's used in marketing presentations the projector will be moved to other subjects before they even get shown.

Thanks for the input, Brian - two tiered sounds perfect...

[dubaiphil]

and



Either you’ve made an error representing what exactly what they initially described as the purpose for the purchase – or they are playing ducks and drakes. I find it hard to believe that any advertising /marketing consultant would really require 10 years exclusivity for stills media material, solely used for a part of a museum launch.

I don’t think you make many mistakes transcribing the gist of what was written.

*



Assume this means that they want the six final Hi-Quality Res files for inclusion to the video?

*

Did they answer your question regarding the budget?

*

On what has been disclosed, I might make a quick glancing investigation about the company, but probably not: I think I would be pricing this potential purchase with, what I term a “no follow up policy”.

Something like: they can purchase the images with rights (insert however many years you want) for inclusion in this particular video and then it is their job to sell their creation to THEIR client.

The purchase price of the six images and publication rights is: $X. Terms: 50% up front and 50% on delivery of the files.

I would price 50% of the total price so that I would be happy if I didn’t get the second 50% and if the images were used in perpetuity and in any manner. Therefore I would be happy and I would never would have to “follow up”. (i.e. begin legal proceedings).

WW

Thanks Bill

I've received some clarity on the usage of images. The video is not for the launch of the museum, but an ongoing presentation within one area of the museum itself. Hence the 10 years or indefinite ownership rights preference.

[dubaiphil]

Well I've been on holiday for a few weeks and we've now got to the point of agreeing terms, conditions and pricing, and I'm writing up invoices and licenses over the weekend.

[Donald]

Thanks for the update, Phil. Keep us informed.