Skateboarding - Public Festival - Getting better!

[DebraM63]

I had a chance to go up to a public festival close to me and discovered a skateboard demo going on. Have been working on action shots and understanding the settings to keep the shadows minimized on faces on bright sunny days. I think it is getting better than my first photos shot at the gymkhana in my albums with regard to shadows on the faces.

Pretty happy with what I got - always welcome feedback. While it was a public venue I still didn't have access on the other side of the chain link fence but tried to get good stuff anyway. I got about 25 good shots total. These are some of the best. I was using my 18mm-135mm kit lens.

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.

[Shadowman]

Nice series.

[DebraM63]

Thanks!!

[ionian]

These are great - especially 3,4 and 6. I really like the processing as well. The shadows in 3 and 6 are just perfect.

[RogerCook]

Nice I like your use of the shadows on the ground also.

[DebraM63]

Thanks for the feedback! I was pretty happy to get the ones with the mirrored shadows


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[Rebel]

Nice Debra, some of the shots seem slightly soft in parts? What camera settings were you using?

I love the how you've utilised the shadows btw!

Expect some flack for your watermark on here, but ignore it... petty nonsense!

[DebraM63]

Nice Debra, some of the shots seem slightly soft in parts? What camera settings were you using?

I love the how you've utilised the shadows btw!

Expect some flack for your watermark on here, but ignore it... petty nonsense!

Thanks for letting me know. I wasn't thinking about that - my website auto watermarks everything but if its Facebook or anything I have to put it in there myself and just picked from that folder. Just fixed it.

Okay, as far as my settings, I don't have any flashes except for on camera flash (which I wasn't using) and I was trying to adjust everything to compensate for the shadows I was getting from the sun on the faces. What I ended up with as the settings on each of these was ISO 100, Shutter 1/400 and F 5.6 and AI Servo and the focus point set to auto selection. I had it on auto focus. They were moving too fast to keep up with manual focusing. I was in manual mode. I had done a number of test shots prior to stopping here because that is where it seemed I was getting the best detail in the faces though the sun was starting to change. Someone else had showed me how to do this if I don't have fill flash or anything. It ends up being kind of overexposed and then I adjust in editing.

I was using a Canon 50D with the kit lens 18-135mm F3.5-5.6 - this time I didn't use any filters other than the UV filter. On the barrel racing shots in another post, I had used a polarized lens and there had been some speculation that maybe the filter had contributed to the softness in those photos. But again, with no fill flash of any kind, I was trying to compensate for the shadows with the settings and edit some things back in afterward. I did the same thing here, some editing adding more vibrance and clarity, etc.

The zoom on these photos varied, #1 was at 135mm, #2 was at 55mm, #3 was at 67mm, #4 was at 29mm, #5 was at 31mm and #6 was a little different at ISO 160, F 7.1 and 1/500 shutter at 55mm. I had taken that one a little earlier and was still adjusting.

So the ones that were at the least amount of zoom were cropped pretty good. I know that takes some from the quality of the photo.

I was shooting through the chain link fence because that is all the access I had. In auto focus, that, as expected, did create a bit of a problem because the camera would try to focus on the fence if I wasn't careful. So maybe that was contributing.

I would like to solve the problem of softness in my photos though because this has happened before.

D.

[rpcrowe]

Nice captures of a difficult venue...

[Manfred M]

Debra - these are great images, and whether some are not 100% technically perfect or not, who cares? Take a look at some of the famous photographers in the past and there are plenty of images that would be criticized if they were posted here. I sometimes find that a lot of modern photographers are so busy picking apart the technical deficiencies rather than looking at the overall impact of the shot.

What I really do like is your use of the hard shadows as part of the images. It's an interesting compositional element that really adds to the shots. The hard light, that is often undesireable, adds a lot of drama and grittiness to the images, and I find that this works really well given the subject matter. I think your sense of timing is bang on as well as the point in time where the image was captured works very well indeed.

I find images 3 and 4 are the best of the bunch.

[ionian]

The softness is likely to be largely a combination of your lens and the camera's autofocus, neither of which will be faultless. They were moving fast and im not certain what the focus point set-up is on your camera but it's likely that only the middle focus point is a cross sensor, which will compensate for movement in all directions. Do you use back button focus? I find it essential for fast moving objects.

Lastly, how are you sharpening them? If I have slightly soft edges I find a high pass filter, usually set somewhere between 2.5-5px will mitigate a lit of the problem. In PS, create a duplicate of the image and then apply the filter (under others) and set the blend mode to overlay. You may still have slightly soft details but the edges, which are the first thing you look for, will be well defined.

[DebraM63]

The softness is likely to be largely a combination of your lens and the camera's autofocus, neither of which will be faultless. They were moving fast and im not certain what the focus point set-up is on your camera but it's likely that only the middle focus point is a cross sensor, which will compensate for movement in all directions. Do you use back button focus? I find it essential for fast moving objects.

Lastly, how are you sharpening them? If I have slightly soft edges I find a high pass filter, usually set somewhere between 2.5-5px will mitigate a lit of the problem. In PS, create a duplicate of the image and then apply the filter (under others) and set the blend mode to overlay. You may still have slightly soft details but the edges, which are the first thing you look for, will be well defined.

Thanks for the info! I am actually only using Photoshop Elements at the moment. Can I do any of that in PS Elements? PS, the full program, my computer can't handle it. I need to get a new computer with more capability. I think I may have to do that before I invest in any more camera stuff because it is becoming a problem, even downloading off the memory card is super slow. I will make a note of this though and try it.

[DebraM63]

I just found where to do the high pass filter on PS Elements. Will experiment with / learn how to do that.

[IzzieK]

Excellent action shots!

[DebraM63]

Thanks so much for the feedback and compliments!


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[William W]

. . . Pretty happy with what I got - always welcome feedback . . .

The main strength displayed here is your eye for good composition. Maybe that stems from your profession as a metal artist – if so then transfer more of that skill, experience and knowledge to your photography – these edeavours are linked.

As already mentioned the “Shadows Images” are very nicely composed and add juxtaposition and drama to the image. Using the Fence to frame of the skater is also good composition technique. You should be happy with what you have attained, well done.

*

You might consider these points below for next time, especially it seems that “softness in my images” is a bug for you at the moment – I haven’t seen the other mages to which you refer (the ones where a CPL was used), but as a preceding general comment for Skate Boarding at that FRAMING – 1/400s is too SLOW a Shutter Speed. (As a comparison, I shoot Field Hockey and for the FRAMING of one Player running at maximum speed in transverse motion I need to be pulling 1/1000s~ 1/1250s Shutter Speed). Skate boards can get faster than a State/National Grade Athlete running at full speed.

Specifically:

I was trying to adjust everything to compensate for the shadows I was getting from the sun on the faces. . . I had done a number of test shots prior to stopping here because that is where it seemed I was getting the best detail in the faces though the sun was starting to change.

The sun doesn’t “change” very quickly other than at Dawn and Dusk. However in the Skate Park what you have is a situation where the Subject can change his aspect to the sun, very quickly. There are a few ways of managing this issue: basically this is Sports Shooting – and (in simple terms) you can either:
> follow the action and adjust exposure settings
> wait for the action to come to you knowing that you have the correct exposure (or close to it)

For the beginner and for initial practice I advise the latter. To do this you need to analyse two aspects:
>the flow/intent of the sport
> the best camera vantage point for the best LIGHT on the FACE/EXPRESSION/DRAMA.

Typically I’d like a camera positon where the sun is at 45 degrees from the top and at 45 to the side of the face – i.e. angled onto the side of the face – and the face, FACING the camera. There will be a rhythm to the Skateboarders Choreography – before shooting just watch and choose a good CAMERA POSITION and then wait for the shot to come to you.

***

Someone else had showed me how to do this if I don't have fill flash or anything. It ends up being kind of overexposed and then I adjust in editing.

This previous advice might have been about EXPOSURE COMPENSATION for shooting in hard sun.

Typically for front hard sun and a quick sport: F/8 @ 1/1000s @ ISO 250 (or equivalent)
For side lit sun I’d open up one stop: F/5.6 @ 1/1000s @ ISO 250 (or equivalent)
For backlit sun I’d open up two stops: F/4 @ 1/1000s @ ISO 250 (or equivalent)

This technique is quite handy to use (and I use it) for field games where one is running the sideline, because basically it prescribes THREE simple pre-sets for the THREE exposures dependant solely upon the aspect of the SUBJECT relative to the SUN.

When I use it, I use M Mode and I simply roll the Tv or the Av to accommodate the exposure compensation that is necessary: it can be done using Av or Tv or P Mode also, and this requires using the Exposure Compensation Function – and of course that means the Camera’s TTL Meter is controlling (and changing) the base exposure for each shooting scenario as the Subject moves from front, to side, to back light.

***

A few more technical points/comments to consider next time out:

What I ended up with as the settings on each of these was ISO 100, Shutter 1/400 and F 5.6 - I was using a Canon 50D with the kit lens 18-135mm F3.5-5.6

> suggest that you do NOT sect the ISO as “100” just because it is a sunny day (maybe you didn’t). My point is the Photographer MUST be able to substantiate EACH exposure element with a very good reason applicable to attaining the best image. In this particular shooting scenario ISO would be my LAST consideration.

> suggest that the Tv is too slow: (evidenced by edge movement blur in images 1 and 4) and also I ‘know’ that 1/400s typically is too slow for this shoot. I would make SHUTTER SPEED my First Priority. For FRAMING Full Length Shots, 1/1000s would be OK for most, 1/2000s, I would be “safe”. I like “safe”.

> suggest you consider the lens – it is a good lens, but best used around F/11 … at F/8 it is sharper than at F/5.6 and at F/11 it is really crisp, especially at the telephoto half of the lens. (Note from about FL = 80mm the Maximum Available aperture is F/5.6 – so effectively for many (most?) shots you were using the lens wide open . . . just stopping it down one stop, to F/8, will improve.)

*

So if we follow that approach and firstly attain a Camera Position to best (45/45 Front /Side) LIGHT the Subject, then we watch the choreography to get our head into the rhythm and flow of their dance and then we make the Tv suit the speed (let’s choose 1/2000s - reason to freeze action and be "safe") then choose the Av (let’s choose F/11 - reason for the crispest image quality) then the ISO just falls into place . . . ISO 1000

So we have chosen – for our front lit bright sun sports/dance skateboard shooting: F/11 @ 1/2000s @ ISO 1000

I drove a pair of EOS 50D’s for several years, they'll eat ISO 1000 in good hard light, don't sweat the big number. If you choose to use a lower ISO the drop to F/8 @ 1/2000s @ ISO 500 or F/11 @ 1/1000s @ ISO 500 depending upon your choice of priority – or some intermediate Aperture and Shutter Speed – but the example is not prescribing figures but just explaining a PROCEEDURE and my way of thinking.

***

. . . AI Servo and the focus point set to auto selection. . . I had it on auto focus. . . I was in manual mode. . . - this time I didn't use any filters other than the UV filter.

AI Servo AF is a logical choice and I would use that because the EOS AI Servo is pretty slick however I would not allow the EOS 50D camera to choose the AF point when I want to follow action: I would use the centre AF point only and lock the centre onto an hard edge contrast point on the Subject and FRAME the shoot slightly wide and them CROP the image to taste later. Reason being that the centre AF point is the fastest and most accurate and there is no time lost whilst the AF transfers from one point to another. If you are not using Back Button Focus, then Half Depress on the Shutter Release Button will/should allow continuous AF following on that hard contrast edge. If you are using back button focus then I expect you have researched and tested how it works - if not, ask and then do so.

The filter won’t (shouldn’t) be problem whist the Subject is predominately Front or Side lit – but consider tossing it for back lighting or when you are shooting in an environment with GLARE – reason is the Filter likely to induce more Flare and Veiling Flare. There seems a little Veiling Flare in Image 4, this is evidenced by a white translucent film over the image and lack of mid tone contrasts (aka “guts”).

This is another reason for using that lens at F/8 to F/11, because in very bright situations with GLARE (beach, snow or white concrete skate park in bright sun or in backlit bright sun scenes) using a smaller aperture will lessen the likelihood of Veiling Flare negatively influencing the “crispness“ of the image.

Veiling Flare is typically more common to Zoom Lenses than Prime Lenses and more common the Varying Maximum Aperture Zoom Lenses than Fixed Maximum Aperture Zoom Lenses.

The above are all the FIRST areas and issues I suggest that you address, to make your action image sharper.

WW

[DebraM63]

The main strength displayed here is your eye for good composition. Maybe that stems from your profession as a metal artist – if so then transfer more of that skill, experience and knowledge to your photography – these edeavours are linked.

As already mentioned the “Shadows Images” are very nicely composed and add juxtaposition and drama to the image. Using the Fence to frame of the skater is also good composition technique. You should be happy with what you have attained, well done.

*

You might consider these points below for next time, especially it seems that “softness in my images” is a bug for you at the moment – I haven’t seen the other mages to which you refer (the ones where a CPL was used), but as a preceding general comment for Skate Boarding at that FRAMING – 1/400s is too SLOW a Shutter Speed. (As a comparison, I shoot Field Hockey and for the FRAMING of one Player running at maximum speed in transverse motion I need to be pulling 1/1000s~ 1/1250s Shutter Speed). Skate boards can get faster than a State/National Grade Athlete running at full speed.

Specifically:



The sun doesn’t “change” very quickly other than at Dawn and Dusk. However in the Skate Park what you have is a situation where the Subject can change his aspect to the sun, very quickly. There are a few ways of managing this issue: basically this is Sports Shooting – and (in simple terms) you can either:
> follow the action and adjust exposure settings
> wait for the action to come to you knowing that you have the correct exposure (or close to it)

For the beginner and for initial practice I advise the latter. To do this you need to analyse two aspects:
>the flow/intent of the sport
> the best camera vantage point for the best LIGHT on the FACE/EXPRESSION/DRAMA.

Typically I’d like a camera positon where the sun is at 45 degrees from the top and at 45 to the side of the face – i.e. angled onto the side of the face – and the face, FACING the camera. There will be a rhythm to the Skateboarders Choreography – before shooting just watch and choose a good CAMERA POSITION and then wait for the shot to come to you.

***



This previous advice might have been about EXPOSURE COMPENSATION for shooting in hard sun.

Typically for front hard sun and a quick sport: F/8 @ 1/1000s @ ISO 250 (or equivalent)
For side lit sun I’d open up one stop: F/5.6 @ 1/1000s @ ISO 250 (or equivalent)
For backlit sun I’d open up two stops: F/4 @ 1/1000s @ ISO 250 (or equivalent)

This technique is quite handy to use (and I use it) for field games where one is running the sideline, because basically it prescribes THREE simple pre-sets for the THREE exposures dependant solely upon the aspect of the SUBJECT relative to the SUN.

When I use it, I use M Mode and I simply roll the Tv or the Av to accommodate the exposure compensation that is necessary: it can be done using Av or Tv or P Mode also, and this requires using the Exposure Compensation Function – and of course that means the Camera’s TTL Meter is controlling (and changing) the base exposure for each shooting scenario as the Subject moves from front, to side, to back light.

***

A few more technical points/comments to consider next time out:



> suggest that you do NOT sect the ISO as “100” just because it is a sunny day (maybe you didn’t). My point is the Photographer MUST be able to substantiate EACH exposure element with a very good reason applicable to attaining the best image. In this particular shooting scenario ISO would be my LAST consideration.

> suggest that the Tv is too slow: (evidenced by edge movement blur in images 1 and 4) and also I ‘know’ that 1/400s typically is too slow for this shoot. I would make SHUTTER SPEED my First Priority. For FRAMING Full Length Shots, 1/1000s would be OK for most, 1/2000s, I would be “safe”. I like “safe”.

> suggest you consider the lens – it is a good lens, but best used around F/11 … at F/8 it is sharper than at F/5.6 and at F/11 it is really crisp, especially at the telephoto half of the lens. (Note from about FL = 80mm the Maximum Available aperture is F/5.6 – so effectively for many (most?) shots you were using the lens wide open . . . just stopping it down one stop, to F/8, will improve.)

*

So if we follow that approach and firstly attain a Camera Position to best (45/45 Front /Side) LIGHT the Subject, then we watch the choreography to get our head into the rhythm and flow of their dance and then we make the Tv suit the speed (let’s choose 1/2000s - reason to freeze action and be "safe") then choose the Av (let’s choose F/11 - reason for the crispest image quality) then the ISO just falls into place . . . ISO 1000

So we have chosen – for our front lit bright sun sports/dance skateboard shooting: F/11 @ 1/2000s @ ISO 1000

I drove a pair of EOS 50D’s for several years, they'll eat ISO 1000 in good hard light, don't sweat the big number. If you choose to use a lower ISO the drop to F/8 @ 1/2000s @ ISO 500 or F/11 @ 1/1000s @ ISO 500 depending upon your choice of priority – or some intermediate Aperture and Shutter Speed – but the example is not prescribing figures but just explaining a PROCEEDURE and my way of thinking.

***



AI Servo AF is a logical choice and I would use that because the EOS AI Servo is pretty slick however I would not allow the EOS 50D camera to choose the AF point when I want to follow action: I would use the centre AF point only and lock the centre onto an hard edge contrast point on the Subject and FRAME the shoot slightly wide and them CROP the image to taste later. Reason being that the centre AF point is the fastest and most accurate and there is no time lost whilst the AF transfers from one point to another. If you are not using Back Button Focus, then Half Depress on the Shutter Release Button will/should allow continuous AF following on that hard contrast edge. If you are using back button focus then I expect you have researched and tested how it works - if not, ask and then do so.

The filter won’t (shouldn’t) be problem whist the Subject is predominately Front or Side lit – but consider tossing it for back lighting or when you are shooting in an environment with GLARE – reason is the Filter likely to induce more Flare and Veiling Flare. There seems a little Veiling Flare in Image 4, this is evidenced by a white translucent film over the image and lack of mid tone contrasts (aka “guts”).

This is another reason for using that lens at F/8 to F/11, because in very bright situations with GLARE (beach, snow or white concrete skate park in bright sun or in backlit bright sun scenes) using a smaller aperture will lessen the likelihood of Veiling Flare negatively influencing the “crispness“ of the image.

Veiling Flare is typically more common to Zoom Lenses than Prime Lenses and more common the Varying Maximum Aperture Zoom Lenses than Fixed Maximum Aperture Zoom Lenses.

The above are all the FIRST areas and issues I suggest that you address, to make your action image sharper.

WW

Thanks, Bill, for all of this info! So much to learn! And thanks for your compliments on the composition! The other photos were of barrel racing with the same type of harsh sun and light background. I am wondering, at the very least, if my shutter speed was too slow.

I have another opportunity this Saturday at a horse/mule show. It is supposed to be overcast and raining that day so lighting will be different and I am using a different lens, a Canon 70-300mm F4-5.6 IS USM lens because of my proximity to the animals may be from a greater distance. I will apply the things you have explained here and try to make the correct adjustment for the lighting. Will see how this goes! Looking forward to it!

Debra