Seeking Advice from Portrait Photographers

[Round Tuit]

My mother will be celebrating her 100th birthday next month. Her children, grand-children, great-grand-children and spouses/significant others will all be there to help her celebrate this occasion. That makes a crowd of around 50 people including 20 children.

I have been designated as the "official photographer" by my siblings and tasked to take a family photo. I would also like to take a nice portrait of my mother while I can. My problem is that I don't have a clue as to how to go about it. The celebration will be in a hall at my mother's residence. I don't know what the lighting situation will look like except that one of the walls has several windows.

My kit consist of a Canon T3i, an 18-55mm kit lens, a 55-250mm telephoto, a 50mm f/1.8 prime lens, a Canon 430 EX Speedlight, a Gary Fong lightsphere and a tripod. I can also borrow a second 430 EX Speedlight and extra tripods to use as light stands if needed. The built in flash on the T3i can be used to trigger two off camera flashes.

I am thinking of using a Speedlight on either side of the group and shooting with the 18-55mm to get everybody in the picture. For my mother's portrait, I would try to use the light from a window if possible or bounce the Speedlight off the ceiling otherwise. I expect that the 50mm prime would be best for the portrait.

Any advice that you can give me will be greatly appreciated.

André

[William W]

1. What's your experience, skill level and confidence using TWO Speedlites?

2. What other modifiers do you have other than the Fong?

3. Can you get access to the hall in the next few days?

4. The idea for your Mother's Portrait has good premise - and maybe it can be developed further: is the light from the windows direct or diffused?

5. What are the colours of the walls and ceiling of the hall?

6. How high is the ceiling?

7. When seated, is your Mum steady or does she shake a bit?

WW

Happy Birthday to your Mum.

[ionian]

William will, no doubt, steer you in the right direction and I'm sure you will do a fine job.

However this is clearly a very important event and event photography is very stressful - especially when you are trying to host as well. I say this from experience: I didn't enjoy a family event recently, was too busy to talk to any one and ended up with photos that I wasn't happy with. This could be one of those times that hiring a pro to come in and do it may be the best option, if the budget will stretch to it.

[William W]

. . . this is clearly a very important event and event photography is very stressful - especially when you are trying to host as well. . . This could be one of those times that hiring a pro to come in and do it may be the best option, if the budget will stretch to it.

A very interesting and an enlightened comment.

I interpreted the Opening Post to mean that Andre had only two images to make (well actually only one) that being the big family group photo - and in addition to that photo, he wanted to make a (solo) Portrait of his Mother. . . (and I was beginning to advise on those two shots only).

However - having read Simon's comment, I concur 100% with Simon on this other aspect Simon raises and I will add a thought from my own experience: even if Andre thinks he will only be making two images, some of the other Family Members might think that he (Andre) will be at their beck and call throughout the event and acting as the "official photographer" for the duration of the celebrations.

A "professional" is an option to consider. Another option is to make sure that the ground rules are understood by everyone and Andre ensures that the Family understands exactly what Andre wants the role "official photographer" to mean. . . I am sure that some Family Members will bring cameras . . . or mobile 'phones and images will be on Facebook (or similar) within minutes . . .

WW

[HenkB]

The idea of hiring/dragooning a non-family pro/semipro to do the actual photography may or may not have appeal to you. In case it does not then feel free to consider these suggestions:

Presumably a centenarian's celebration will take place during the light hours. This guarantees a modicum of light from the windows. Technically, here, the tough photo is the group photo. First, arrangement: Yes, you need to insist on where the group is to be set up (invoke proper photographic mumbo-jumbo here) but don't fall into the trap of being the group arranger. Let someone more senior to you do that. Your job is to tweak the arrangement so all faces are clearly seen or to correct Mutt-and-Jeff visual anomalies. Don't forget, you're expected to be in the group photograph, too - leave space in the frame. It's tripod and timer (or remote) time. If the camera displays a tally light with the self timer, explain it so folks can be ready for the exposure.

The 18mm on a Canon crop body is not particularly wide and 50 people in a modest size room can be tough to squeeze in. Three rows (littlest kids on floor, seniors on chairs, teens and able-bodied adults standing behind) is still ~ 16 across. You call it a hall, so maybe. The other consideration is even lighting (without significant color cast disparities). Even lighting calls for the speedlights to be bounced from as far away as practicable. I suspect I would attempt to have the group arranged opposite the windows and bounce the speedlights set to their widest dispersion into the wall above the windows. You don't want the hassle of managing shadows you can't predict cropping up when the flashes go off. If you have the luxury of using a remote, realize that the speedlights' recharging will force a slower pace than your group might appreciate.

The portrait is about fifty times easier to arrange and pull off. It's also about fifty times more important to get it right. So, no net gain. Anyway, your proposal of window light and the 50mm is a good one. Your first responsibility is to nail the lighting and the background. I suspect your mum will be sitting for the portrait. So should you be, if not on your knees. I would try to shoot with the light coming obliquely from one side. Advantage? If you set up the chair far from any background and have the area in back of her scoured of objects and roaming participants, with an aperture of 2.8 you should have a neutral, darker background (unlit wall, no sconces, no exit signs, no sunlit floor) with little to offer the eye to compete with your subject. Remember, this is not her space with her things – the environment means nothing here. 2.8 probably also starts to be in the sweet spot for the lens and should allow you to get the face nicely detailed. She's earned every one of those lines and is probably inordinately proud of them (and all of the rest of you should be, too). Consider using a reflector to lift some shadows on the side away from the windows.

You can make the posing easy for her by not posing her. Have someone she loves to talk to sit next to you and engage her in conversation. If you can sit between two such people so much the better. You then are not a portraitist so much as a sports photographer, looking for the ideal expression, the telling flash of an eye, a moment lost in happy remembrance, that sort of thing. Here it would be useful to shoot in manual mode, you don't want the camera making last minute adjustments of focus or exposure, especially focus. If you can set up the camera for back-button focusing (removes the focus delay at the shutter press) and become comfortable with it in the interim, then that's the way to go.

[Manfred M]

Unfortunately, I've been "volunteered" by others (somehow my protests were ignored) for major one-time events like this so understand how you feel. "I shoot landscapes, not people", which was largely true at the time didn't seem to discourage anyone.

Getting someone who knows what they are doing to handled the photography would definitely be my suggestion too. I suspect nobody wants to ante up the money to do this, which is why you got volunteered. Doing something like this for the first time is not likely to result in great images, so damage control is probably the best you can do.

Shooting 50 people (even without the children) is going to be like "herding cats". Trying to pack them into even 3 rows of people is going to be tough. I assume that there will be some older people that will need to sit. A row of around 15 people is going to be quite wide, so you are likely looking at something long and narrow when it comes to aspect ratio. The retirement homes and nursing homes I've been in have tended to have floors that can be a bit sketchy and likely not someplace I would want anyone sitting, but have a look - the youngsters across the the bottom would do a lot to compress the shooting area for you. It's worth checking out.

The first thing I would suggest is to scout out the facility with camera in hand and take some test shots ahead of time, ideally at the time of day you would be shooting. Look at the where the light is coming from - a low afternoon light from a west-facing window can be awful on a sunny day. East or north facing will give you less light, but at least no one will be at risk of being blinded on a sunny day. Test shots will let you figure out which lens and lens settings are going to be a good start to your shoot. Ideally, if you can get permission, arranging the room the way you want for the shoot and using all of the equipment you plan to use during the shoot will help a lot.

As for the shot of your mother, that will be the easy one. I assume she will be sitting, so shoot her in an area where the lighting is good, it does not have to be the room where the celebration is being held. Set things up where the lighting is working (try this without the speedlights) and take several shots At that age, I'm sure she has glasses, so either take the picture with them off or watch for unwanted reflections in them.

Good luck!

A lot of these institutions use fluorescent lighting in a lot of places so added to to the daylight will give you a fairly ugly mixed light situation. If there are plenty of neutral coloured walls or ceilings to push the light from, it could help, but setting up a single small flash is going to be pushing your luck as you are going to see considerable light drop-off as you get away from the light source. The distance from the lights to the walls / ceilings is going to be important as the inverse square law is not going to be your friend. Two lights would be better, but if you haven't set up and shot this way before, you might find this solution tough to work with.

I haven't done any group shots anywhere near that size, but what I found very useful is to have the camera on a tripod and connected to a remote shutter release. I find that setting up the shot and framing it is one thing, but if you are trying to do this and herd the people into cooperating, it is not something I like doing while looking through a viewfinder. I'll frame things up, set the focus and wait for the moment to take the shot while watching the crowd. The other advantage of the tripod is that you can take multiple, identically composed shots and if needed a bit of Photoshop magic is easier to perform with perfectly aligned images.

[Round Tuit]

Thank you all for your concern and your valuable suggestions.

First, let me clarify the situation. This gathering will be a very casual affair. I am quite sure that every adult and teen in the room will have their own camera/cell phone and are more than welcomed to take pictures as they please. One reason to make me the "official photographer" is to prevent other people from trying to arrange group photos all afternoon so that we don't turn the celebration into a massive photo shoot. I know that the photo I take will be far from what a professional would do but I am fairly confident that it will be as good or better than what anybody else there can do.

Having said that, I still want to do the best that I can for that group photo and this is where your advice is so valuable. The portrait of my mother is more important to me as she won't be around for much longer.

Bill - Your interpretation of my opening post is bang on. I think that you will find most of the answers to your questions as I address the suggestions by Hendrix and Manfred. If not I will fill them in at the end.

Simon - Thanks for your concern. You make a valid point but I can assure you that my priority is to come home with good memories of the event even if that means a lousy photo or no photo at all.

Hendrix and Manfred - I agree with both of you that arranging the group will be challenging. I will enlist the help of my sisters to corral the group but I feel I must keep control of the arrangement myself if it is to fit in the field of view. I have not seen the hall and won't have an opportunity to check it out until a couple of hours before the event. My plan is to sit the children on the floor. Next have a row of chairs for my mother and the senior citizens (that's me and my siblings!) followed by a row of short people and a row of taller folks. A lot will depend on the geometry of the room. All I know so far is that the hall is rectangular, the ceiling is white, the walls are beige and one of the long side wall has "lots" of windows covered with vertical blinds.

I will definitely use my tripod and a remote release. My original idea is to shoot the group at f/8 to get everybody in focus. I would rather not use the speedlight(s) if there is good lighting but feel I must be ready to use it(them) if needed to freeze any movement in the group. I have never used two speedlights at once before but since I would be using them as one group and bouncing them off the ceiling, I'm willing to give it a try if I have to. I should be able to determine that when I see the place before the event.

I am much more confident that I will be easier to get a nice portrait of my mother than getting the group photo nailed. My mother will definitely be sitting for all of this and since she is only 4ft 10in when standing, I will probably be sitting on the floor when I take her picture! My biggest concern was to get a nice pose for the photo and I think Hendrix has solved that problem for me. I will get my grandson to talk to her and that will light her face up as she loves children. Manfred, thanks for the tip to check for reflections in her glasses. I wouldn't has thought of that.

Bill - I do not have any light modifier other than the one Fong and I doubt that I will be using it for these photos.
My mother is frail but is steady when sitting.

Again, thank you all for your suggestions. I will use the next few weeks to experiment with the lenses, remote, speedlight and posing. My wife doesn't know it yet but she is about to be a test subject.

André

[IzzieK]

I have not read any comments so far so I will be going on my own instinct of what you wanted to happen at that event. A good while back, I was told I had the best camera () so I should be the photographer at a family event (my husband's). It was casual event too. I made it a point to stay very far away from the crowd and set up my tripod shooting expressions, playing children, misbehaving teens and some busy people preparing the food and was certainly had a good time without anyone really asking me for a shoot. I came out well in the end because I just shot what I wanted to shoot, nothing in particular of any theme...In short, it helps to go there with nothing in particular to expect but because this is your mother's big day and you are located in a Commonwealth territory/country like Australia, I will suggest that you take a picture too of the Queen's letter to your Mom congratulating her for reaching the age of 100. If this is going to be framed, then frame the letter alongside your Mom's image. I am sure she will be thrilled.

Just a thought...

[Round Tuit]

I have not read any comments so far so I will be going on my own instinct of what you wanted to happen at that event. A good while back, I was told I had the best camera () so I should be the photographer at a family event (my husband's). It was casual event too. I made it a point to stay very far away from the crowd and set up my tripod shooting expressions, playing children, misbehaving teens and some busy people preparing the food and was certainly had a good time without anyone really asking me for a shoot. I came out well in the end because I just shot what I wanted to shoot, nothing in particular of any theme...In short, it helps to go there with nothing in particular to expect but because this is your mother's big day and you are located in a Commonwealth territory/country like Australia, I will suggest that you take a picture too of the Queen's letter to your Mom congratulating her for reaching the age of 100. If this is going to be framed, then frame the letter alongside your Mom's image. I am sure she will be thrilled.

Just a thought...

Thanks for dropping by Izzie.

Taking a picture of the Queen's letter is an excellent idea. I think that we are getting one from the pope as well. I am sure my mother will be pleased when we read the letters to her but unfortunately she will never see them nor the photo because she has macular degeneration and is practically blind. She is quite good at faking being able to see when you talk to her though.

André

[Cantab]

Andre, I've been following this discussion with interest. I have nothing helpful to add to what others have said but wish you well on a very special occasion.

[IzzieK]

Thanks for dropping by Izzie.

Taking a picture of the Queen's letter is an excellent idea. I think that we are getting one from the pope as well. I am sure my mother will be pleased when we read the letters to her but unfortunately she will never see them nor the photo because she has macular degeneration and is practically blind. She is quite good at faking being able to see when you talk to her though.

André

Then make it a tryptich-like presentation and describe the set-up to her. Just a thought...Just have fun Andre...don't forget yourself. If you are having fun, then your images will turn out very well. It will show.

[Round Tuit]

Andre, I've been following this discussion with interest. I have nothing helpful to add to what others have said but wish you well on a very special occasion.

Thank you Bruce.

[Round Tuit]

Then make it a tryptich-like presentation and describe the set-up to her. Just a thought...Just have fun Andre...don't forget yourself. If you are having fun, then your images will turn out very well. It will show.

I certainly plan on having a good time.

[William W]

Thank you for addressing my questions.

Here are a few detailed points you might like to consider:

> Don’t enlist the assistance of your sisters (plural) – appoint ONE person only to do the job under your direction

> if you are serving alcohol and/or food, make the picture(s) earlier rather than later

> Make the group arrangement slightly (SLIGHTLY) curved

> Subjects shoulders and torsos facing slightly inwards, but head turned directly to camera and tucking their shoulder just behind the person next to them: note this is NOT suggesting a military line of soldiers, but it IS about people standing RELAXED, but fitting each one of them tightly together whilst still being relaxed

> Do not allow the Subjects to put an arm or arms around the person next to them

> Mum in centre at front on chair

> Children on floor around your Mum is good idea do not bring them out in front of Mum beyond 1 or 2 feet ( ½ mtr), as there are DoF considerations and we need the group compact sideways and also front to back, cross legs or sitting sideways on their thighs is good for children at family gathering – NOT legs out in front for family photo

> youngest great grand-child good idea in Mum’s lap if possible – or near her

> TYPICAL Arrangements (as a guide) and I’ll assume the room is at least 18ft wide and you can shoot a little bit wider than the edges of the group – I‘ll assume these rough dimensions for all the following - you can get 12 tallest people in the back row standing, then a second row of chairs, that will be about 10 chairs – that accounts for 22 Adults – then I’d locate the shorter adults standing in between the back row and the chairs – the key point is to be able to see ALL the face and a bit of the upper chest of EVERY person – stand directly behind the camera and systematically align each person to achieve this goal

> use a tripod – yes

> camera height about 6ft~8ft is good – get everyone to LOOK AT THE CAMERA (i.e. slightly upward)

> selection of Aperture requires consideration of DoF AND the Flash Power available to you – don’t forget that second element – and in that regard bump the ISO if necessary

> regarding "Flash Power" you need to keep the group reasonably compact (in depth) because you do not want evidence of “Flash Falloff” at the rear of the group

> Bouncing Flash is a good idea for many reasons: main ones being - it lessens the effect of Flash Falloff; it spreads; it is a softer light usually quite evenly distributed; less likely to get big reflections on eye glasses. Rather than a Ceiling Bounce, I suggests a simple White Rectangular Bounce Card (about 8” x 6”used with On Camera Flash (if using one Speedlite) – or if using two Speedlites then two Simple White Rectangular Bounce Cards (as mentioned) with Off Camera Flash Speeedltes on stands about 8ft high facing straight ahead evenly spaced either side of the camera and at the same distance to the group as the Camera. If you choose to use Ceiling Bounce then allow for up to two stops effective Flash Power loss for a 12~15ft White Ceiling

> with your gear (assuming the arrangement above) I’d use the 18 to 55 around FL = 22mm, it is quite crisp at the edges at 22mm and the barrel distortion has dropped off from FL = 18mm, apropos Image Quality we’d like to get to about F/8 if possible, at FL = 22mm, the camera will be about 20ft from the group

> with the Flash Zoom set to 35mm the GN for a 430 is approx. 100ft@ISO100 – working with that as our guide and assuming an effective (maximum ‘power’) Flash Loss of 1 Stop using the Bounce Card – I’d bump to ISO400 and work the lens at about F/7.1. That Aperture provides “acceptable focus” from about 8ft to infinity. If you do a ceiling bounce be prepared to lose about 2 Stops of effective Flash Power. If you use two Flash Heads that will gain you not much extra effective Flash Power; about ½ Stop. In any case to a test shot(s) as described next so you are sure that you have enough Flash Power; if after a test shoot you reckon that you do not have Flash Power the bump to ISO 800

(If you don’t understand the calculations for those last two points and you want an explanation – ask.)

> I’d use E-TTL. You can make a test image you need only four people – one in the centre front and centre back and one each at the edges – in the test shot you are looking for an effective Flash Exposure at front, back and at the two sides. If there is not effective coverage at the back, then you need to open up the Aperture – or – move the Flash forward f there is not enough coverage at the side then you need to move the Flash farther away (or if bouncing using two Speedlites try angling them slightly outwards)

> I would definitely NOT suggest using the available room light for the Group Portrait, with 50 people the risk of Subject Movement Blur is way beyond acceptable – in fact if it is easy to do kill the room lights for the shoot – I’d do that – doing so will most likely achieve a more even CT (Colour Temperature) for the set

> make several shots – then you have a better choice for deleting ‘silly faces’ etc.

> for the Portrait of your Mother, if you employ a “talker” I suggest that you have the talker situated directly behind the Camera; use a tripod. You could be the “talker”, that might make for a fantastic and most intimate Portrait.

Have fun.

Break a leg.

WW

Post Script: If you are interested in working with a Bounce Card (or two), then this is a most informative conversation.

Please pay particular attention to the advice and suggestions by Nadine Ohara, who, was one of, if not the, most talented exponents of Flash Photography with Canon EOS gear used whilst shooting on the hop and under the pressure of time at Weddings and Social Functions, whom I have ever known or whose work I have ever experienced.

[Round Tuit]

I am sorry to be so late to report on my mother's birthday celebrations. The good news is that the entire familly showed up and everybody had a good time. I did manage to get a few decent candid shots of my mother. Nothing that I would consider "portrait" quality but certainly good enough to put in a frame on the mantle.

As for the group photo, I screwed that one up big time. For starter, because of a booking error by the staff, we were moved to a conference room instead of the reception hall. That room was too small and furnished with office chairs and conference tables. Not ideal conditions. I set up my tripod in the middle of the room before the bulk of the crowd showed up. From there my 18-55mm lens just capture the width of the room when set to 18mm. I took a couple of test shots to check my exposure and depth of field and everything looked OK.

I had decided to take the photo as soon as possible after everybody had arrived before either the children got too agitated or my mother fell asleep! This turned out surprisingly well. Herding the crowd only took ONE call. The kids were placed on the floor in front of my mother, short people on either side and behind her and tall folks at the back. As soon as everybody was in place, I took a test shot, double checked that everybody fit in the frame, that the depth of field was sufficient, that the focus was good on my mother and that the exposure was OK. I then joined the crowd and took the first photo using my remote, told everybody to stay put and went to check again for depth of field, focus etc. I the went back and took two more shots for insurance. Feeling pleased with myself, I declare the photo session completed.

Did I mention that I screwed that one up big time? Well, while I was busy concentrating so hard on getting everything just perfect, I forgot rule #1 and rule #2! Rule #1 says: Check to make sure that there isn't anything in the frame that you dont want in the picture. Rule #2 says: Make sure that you follow rule #1 before you release the shutter.

I have deliberately blurred this image because I don't like to post photos without the express permission of the people in them but you can see the mess I ended up with. On the up side, by the time I'm done with this, I should be pretty good at cloning.



I want to thank all who offered advice on how to do this and in particular to Bill who so generously shared his expertise. Without you, I would not even have anything worth rescueing.

Andre

[Manfred M]

Lesson #1 - the camera captures everything!. Cleaning up your line of sight (i.e. all those chairs) gives your a much better starting point. Something to remember next time...

[William W]

. . . I did manage to get a few decent candid shots of my mother. . . . certainly good enough to put in a frame on the mantle. . . .

Very Good

WW

[Saorsa]

Lesson #1 - the camera captures everything!. Cleaning up your line of sight (i.e. all those chairs) gives your a much better starting point. Something to remember next time...

That's true and raising the screen. On the other hand, the move to a conference room is part of the family history which is now captured.

Given the situation I think I would also have tried for shots of individual branches of the family tree.

Mom and Children followed by Mom and each child with their offspring as a smaller group.