Background cleanup, help requested.

[rudi]

I shot this little hover, hovering around a poppy looking for a suitable landingplace.
They are not all in super sharp focus, but I do like the image.

BUT: I do find the bg very distracting.
I tried some burning, blurring, vignetting, but without good result.

What have I done so far to the image posted here:
1: in ACR toned down the highlights & Whites.
2: merged 6 shots in CS6.
3: cropped off about 25%, and cloned out a stemm centre-right.
4: basic levels adjust and gentle S-Curve.
5: resize to 1000pix high, no outputsharpening.
6: post to CiC.


So, all idea's welcomed how to get a smoother, more pleasing background
in post, or perhaps I want too much ??

[Rent]

Try a crop of about 1 inch left, right, and top
Roy

[ccphoto]

Part of your distracted background comes from having too much dead space around the main theme of the bees. My first edit act was to crop the image. The rest, if it makes sense to you is shown in my edit layers. Simply put, I made a duplicate layer and on it isolated the bees and flower using the quick select and refine edge tools. Next, I saved that selection to use later. Then, I began a series of exposure, contrast, and color filter layers followed by a HSB for the BG. Last, I loaded the earlier bees selection and did another color adjustment adding a bit more red so the bees would stand off the green as they are naturally complementary of each other.

[Manfred M]

Rudi - the real secret is to look at the background before you take the picture and figure out if it is worth it. Work the scene to get the composition you want in camera as opposed to trying to add it later.

Having the PP skills is fine, but we should still try to "get it right in camera", and that means the whole picture, not just the subject.

[rudi]

Part of your distracted background comes form having too much dead space around the main theme of the bees. My first edit act was to crop the image. The rest, if it makes sense to you is shown in my edit layers. Simply put, I made a duplicate layer and on it isolated the bees and flower using the quick select and refine edge tools. Next, I saved that selection to use later. Then, I began a series of exposure, contrast, and color filter layers followed by a HSB for the BG. Last, I loaded the earlier bees selection and did another color adjustment adding a bit more red so the bees would stand off the green as they are naturally complementary of each other.

Thanks for your input Chris. My usual workflow is very basic, and my knowledge off layers is next to nothing. Your valuable input does make me realize I need to learn layers for situations as this when they arrise. I really appreciate the time you took and showing me your edit.

[rpcrowe]

The first thing that crossed my mind was cropping the image, eliminating a bit of the background. Then blurring out the BG as Christ accomplished.

Wnen shooting, I always TRY to pay attention to my background and to the edges of my frame so that my subject/subjects will be the most important facet of the image...

[rudi]

Rudi - the real secret is to look at the background before you take the picture and figure out if it is worth it. Work the scene to get the composition you want in camera as opposed to trying to add it later.

Having the PP skills is fine, but we should still try to "get it right in camera", and that means the whole picture, not just the subject.

Thanks for your input Manfred. I try to get it right in camera , and usually a picture with a distracting bg doesn't get processed, but every now and than an opportunity arise and than I do want to make the best off it. And this was an opportunity for me as I do not very often get a chance to capture a sequence like this.

As said in my reply to Chris, my workflow is very basic, this means:
1: open in ACR, adjust WB, black & white point
2: open in CS6, sometimes cropping, linear Curves adjustment,
3: downsize and sharpen,
4: post on here, and please take a look at them..

Pictures with too many PP, usually don't get finalised. The limited free time I have, I like to get out with my camera, don't like PP so much

[davidedric]

I think I would also use the HSL panel in ACR (it's called that in Lightroom) and try toning down the luminance and saturation in the green channel. You could also try a circular filter around the flower and files. It wouldn't be as good as the layers approach, but it would be a lot quicker.

Dave

[Shadowman]

I don't see anything wrong with the background, I think a good place to start with this composition is answering the question "what or how do I want to present this?" Are you looking for a macro-like presentation, if so then fill the frame? Are you more interested in displaying the flower, the bees, or both, then consider making them POP? Are you trying to create contrasts, patterns, or layers, then use your editing resources to emphasize?

[rudi]

Thanks Roy, Richard and Dave to leave a comment. Appreciated.

@Dave: I will give it a try.

[rudi]

I don't see anything wrong with the background, I think a good place to start with this composition is answering the question "what or how do I want to present this?" Are you looking for a macro-like presentation, if so then fill the frame? Are you more interested in displaying the flower, the bees, or both, then consider making them POP? Are you trying to create contrasts, patterns, or layers, then use your editing resources to emphasize?

Thanks John for your insight, appreciated.
I had thought about that. No macro-like presentation this time. I want to show the behaviour from the hover-the flower, but on a more pleasing, less competing (for me) bg with some visible (interesting) patterns, hence my question.

[Black Pearl]

Dave mentioned the way I would do it - use the HSL sliders to desaturate the greens a little then drop their luminance.
I would also crop a little tighter and add some vignetting to centralise the image slightly.

[IzzieK]

I don't see anything wrong with your background either...if more blur is what you want, then you can use the Quick Selection tool, invert (Ctrl+Shift+I), go to the Gaussian Blur effect and dial in how much blur you want without overdoing it. Another way is to use Nik's Viveza and use the control button (round icon at the top of the effect window) position it in colours you want less saturation or less brightness (or both) and slide the brightness, saturation, etc. buttons to suite your needs.

[rudi]

Thanks Robin and Izzie for your helpfull comment. I will give your suggestion a try and see where I can get.

I don't see anything wrong with your background either....

@Izzie: perhaps I am too demanding ??

[pnodrog]

............My first edit act was to crop the image.

As a rule (not really a rule) it is a good idea to leave the cropping to last. Certainly it is good practice to be aware of the probable final crop. However in editing, the area beyond the crop may be a good source of image material for cloning and selections for cloning/burning/dodging will often be better and adjustments done beyond the crop boundaries may avoid any annoying artifacts on the cropped edges.

The other advantage of doing PP beyond the intended crop area is that if you ever need to modify the crop for publication or printing etc the adjustment/PP will be consistent across the bulk of the image and hopefully totally consistent within the area of any future crop.

Having said all that like Chris I often crop early when working with someone else's image.

[ccphoto]

As a rule (not really a rule) it is a good idea to leave the cropping to last. Certainly it is good practice to be aware of the probable final crop. However in editing the area beyond the crop may be a good source of image material for cloning and selections for cloning/burning/dodging will often be better and adjustments done beyond the crop boundaries may avoid any annoying artifacts on the cropped edges.

The other advantage of doing PP beyond the intended crop area is that if you ever need to modify the crop for publication or printing etc the adjustment/PP will be consistent across the bulk of the image and hopefully totally consistent within the area of any future crop.

Having said all that like Chris I often crop early when working with someone else's image.

I am not sure where that rule may have originated but as an old film guy, framing (cropping) in the enlarger was always done first unless I was proofing an 8x10 negative. I use a mask setup to do my initial crop which I always do at the beginning as I like to know what I am working with from the outset and so my image size doesn't become unmanageable with the post processing. Working with a 36MP image file that uncropped can easily reach significantly higher MP levels, so I tend to try to keep the good in, the unnecessary out as much as possible. I never concern myself with what might be later on in an image as I shoot for my satisfaction and not for possible publication. I do save the images in two formats though - tiff and jpeg...hey, ya never know, eh...

[DanK]

I am not sure where that rule may have originated but as an old film guy, framing (cropping) in the enlarger was always done first unless I was proofing an 8x10 negative. I use a mask setup to do my initial crop which I always do at the beginning as I like to know what I am working with from the outset and so my image size doesn't become unmanageable with the post processing. Working with a 36MP image file that uncropped can easily reach significantly higher MP levels, so I tend to try to keep the good in, the unnecessary out as much as possible. I never concern myself with what might be later on in an image as I shoot for my satisfaction and not for possible publication. I do save the images in two formats though - tiff and jpeg...hey, ya never know, eh...

I've recently come to teh conclusion that in many cases, I should leave the final cropping until the end. If I am staying in Lightroom, there is no harm in cropping early, and I do, because I can always change it. However, I frequently move the image into Photoshop, and the transition between them is the issue. On a number of occasions, I have done substantial edits in photoshop, only to have others point out, correctly, that I have cropped too tightly. Going back to LR, modifying the crop, and then repeating the Photoshop edits--some of which involve masks, so they would have to be done over from scratch--is a lot of work.

So my new process is this:
--I retain my original process stacking images, which is that I never crop before stacking.
--if I am going to stay in LR--which is practical for some images where I have enough control over lighting, etc.--I crop early.
--if I am going to move to Photoshop, and therefore have to burn the LR crop into a TIFF or PSD file, I'll crop, but only loosely, and leave the final cropping to the end.

[ccphoto]

If I am given (hired) to shoot a specific image, I wouldn't even think of cropping without the client's input but other than that, I shoot and frame according to my likes...and if you also like them, I am thrilled, and you think they need modifying, I appreciate your input but in 99% of the cases will leave it just as it is. But I am an old toot pretty much set in my old toot ways.

If I was a budding photographer, I would be way more likely to take the advice of seasoned professionals but in so much as that seems a logical course of action, I have seen way too many "pro's" who couldn't find a luminosity mask with both hands in their back pockets. My advice to anyone starting out is to learn from the critiques to the point where you can see the error of your way, correct accordingly and put that in your learning curve file, then move on. Don't succumb to everyone's suggestions just because they think they are right. Listen to yourself first and foremost unless of course 11 people tell you (to quote another thread) you're a horse 11 times, then it's time to get a saddle - then it is time to listen. Develop your own style, but do it with prudence.

Now back to your regularly scheduled program.

[chauncey]

Benefiting from hindsight...I might have draped the background with cloth before the shoot.

[pnodrog]

I am not sure where that rule may have originated but as an old film guy, framing (cropping) in the enlarger was always done first unless I was proofing an 8x10 negative. I use a mask setup to do my initial crop which I always do at the beginning as I like to know what I am working with from the outset and so my image size doesn't become unmanageable with the post processing. Working with a 36MP image file that uncropped can easily reach significantly higher MP levels, so I tend to try to keep the good in, the unnecessary out as much as possible. I never concern myself with what might be later on in an image as I shoot for my satisfaction and not for possible publication. I do save the images in two formats though - tiff and jpeg...hey, ya never know, eh...

I am an old film guy as well. However the best practice workflow for a digital image is very different to that of working with a negative. I don't even bother about selecting the right grade of paper, selective use of farmers reducer, pushing development times etc etc.

When to crop is totally at the photographers discretion but I have learnt the hard way that cropping last is good practice.