Portable Studio Backgrounds - What do you use

[Manfred M]

PCB stuff is not really found commonly in the UK.

That is not surprising given their direct distribution model. They seem to sell into the USA and Canada only. They have the largest market share of studio lights in the USA.

[inkista]

That is not surprising given their direct distribution model. They seem to sell into the USA and Canada only. They have the largest market share of studio lights in the USA.

They initially tried doing international distribution, but found the overall cost to be prohibitive both to them and their customers to the point of making the AlienBees, etc. unviable as a product. They've explained the situation on this webpage if you were curious about the whys and wheretofores.

[Manfred M]

They initially tried doing international distribution, but found the overall cost to be prohibitive both to them and their customers to the point of making the AlienBees, etc. unviable as a product. They've explained the situation on this webpage if you were curious about the whys and wheretofores.

I had read it and it makes sense. They have a manufacturing and distribution model that lets them hold their costs down. Add a middle man and they become non-competitive price wise quite quickly.

[Loose Canon]

Well Donald,

I have no doubt you can make a decision on how you want to proceed down this road. And for what reasons. Which is why I didn’t want to say anything other than maybe contribute to the original question regarding BG’s.

So since I am staying out of this let me just continue staying out of this if I may by, well, not staying out of this! Seems like we have similar starting points and this is just my story.

When I first decided I needed to come to terms with studio/flash lighting, I decided that in order to get the best of both worlds I would go the speedlight route. Portability, could use on camera, there were modifiers available, seemed like a great way to go. And it was. For a while. I was just getting started. I built a speedlight system, with everything needed. Triggers, modifiers, stands, reflectors, adaptors etc.

I realized at some point that with all these different manufacturer’s products I had to turn to get different things I needed was becoming a huge PITA. There was no system. Everything had to be double checked for compatibility and it was a kind of hit-and-miss proposition at times. Everything did eventually work together but I had to spend a lot of time shopping and researching. The amount of small equipment required to get a speedlight rig set up was staggering (rubber bands, velco straps? Seriously?) and the quality of parts was iffy. And I have a lot of the same brands you are considering. At that time I was just using three 580 ll’s. The modifiers were what I would call marginal (they worked but not like you would hope), and then the battery nightmare.

Things went along okay for a time, but it didn’t take me long to get to the point to where it became difficult to work with in a studio setting. I ran up against power shortage (i.e. Ws power) and it was evident I was going to need more than three units as well, which meant I was going to need more adapters, radio controllers, (insert many more items here). The power issue was a big deal and caused a lot of headaches. I hit the speedlight wall!

That’s when I decided I was going to change direction and go with some proper studio gear and get myself into an established system. And one where I could choose from plenty of power, great modifiers, controllers, available replacements parts (bulbs, fuses, modeling bulbs, everything) and whose gear had the specs I was requiring. All in one compatible system from one place.

If you are going to get into this area of photography seriously, the same thing is going to happen to you. Sure as I’m sitting here writing this.

A couple of 300Ws lights and a speed light are great for starting off maybe, and will carry you a long ways with certain types of photography. But keep in mind that at the same time this will also limit you to those types of photography and only in certain environments. A speedlight loses a lot of power stuffed in a mod or bounced. Even a stop or two can make all the difference.

So I’m going to land with Richard here. If I were to start over knowing what I do now I would go studio heads and mods. I would find myself a good system in my area and I would go for it. I don’t regret the speedlights. I use them some and glad I have them. In fact I have eight of them now (for other purposes), but they are not conducive for Life in the Studio. And not only that, but when I go on location the studio lights go with me. All I need for that is a battery pack or two if AC isn’t available (2 lights per pack). It’s a little heavier, but a lot less doodads and adaptors to forget, the mods are better quality, more rugged, produce exponentially better results, and I have the power behind it if I need it (and I have). One head, mod, and a reflector for an outdoor portrait session is much better than ganging three or four speedies, AA batteries, and stuffing that into a lesser mod. Plus I’ll get better results. And not to mention for a comparable price. I know where to go for parts, service, questions, whatever I need to keep Life Happy!

Anyway, that's how it went down with me!

Darned glad I decided to stay out of this one and know the meaning of “Silence is Golden”!

And BTW? Congratulations on your choice to hit this trail! It’s a fun row to hoe!

[Manfred M]

Interesting thoughts Terry.

One reason I went with the PocketWizards is that they could be used with both the Nikon Speedlights and the Paul C Buff Einstein 640. Integration and a consistent approach are a very good thing.

The main reason I picked up the small Godox Witstro 360 is for travel (especially air travel) where size and weight are important. The lack of integration was less important as I generally use it as a standalone solution, but I can still (with a bit of a kludge) use it with the rest of my studio lights and speedlights.

[Donald]

Thank you all once again. All of this is so tremendously helpful, even just in educational terms.

Terry - I am so glad you decided to stay out of the discussion in the way that you have! You have wonderfully captured the dilemma I was having and have provided thoughts and comments that have helped me finally, I think, make up my mind. You have provided clarity, for which I am grateful.

As you may have seen way up this list, I had drawn up a shopping list. I am now drawing up another shopping list, based on Godox equipment.

I started off on this journey of exploration about a week ago by landing on the website of England-based Lencarta (see Ian's post #39, above). I then left that behind and wandered to lots of of other places. Now, with the guidance, ideas, comments of you all above, I have come back to Lencarta and their marketing of the Godox made equipment.

So, let me put my shopping list together again and I'll let you see it and ask for comment.

This, for me, has been a wonderful thread. It's what a forum should be about in terms of sharing knowledge and experience to help others learn and develop. Thanks again.

[rpcrowe]

By the way, I have both a selection of several hotshoe flashes and a selection of studio flashes. Most of my studio flashes are old which means that they are quite basic and don't have the bells and whistles of more modern units. OTOH, units like my two "ORIGINAL" White Lightning WL500 monolights have been functioning for me for over twenty years (and I originally purchased them used for $50 each). Prorated: the cost of these units have been around pennies per week! Paul C. Buff still supplies parts like flash tubes for those ancient lights - Now that's my idea of customer service...

I have a 400WS SUNPAK Monolight used with a Chimera Professional Medium Softbox which is great for lighting larger subjects, a set of German Ultrablitz monolights and several no-name flashes.

I have experienced no problems mixing brands and types of electronic flash...

The thing that I like the best about studio flash is the modeling light capability. I have become so well used to my lights that I can deduce the lighting ratio just from what it looks like with the modeling lights so I don't have to measure each light individually...

[Manfred M]

I have experienced no problems mixing brands and types of electronic flash...

As long as you stick with umbrellas as light modifiers and use either optical slaves or basic radio triggers (i.e. no control over the light settings, all they do is pop the lights), I would agree.

The moment you start using anything with a speed ring, specific mount or "smart" triggers, I would have to disagree.

One reason I went the "smart trigger" route when I first got into flash / studio flash some years ago was that I had very limited mobility, so walking over the adjust a light was physically quite painful and often meant using a cane (which meant doing things with one hand). Doing so from my camera meant a far more pleasant shooting experience.

Now that I'm well past the surgery and recovery period, I don't have the same limitations, but have learned that I like what the tools i own can do.

[Donald]

Okay guys, the new shopping list.

Thank you again for all your advice and suggestions. Even if I never bought anything, the amount of learrning over the past week just by researching this, has been incredible.

So, first my shopping list, followed by my one outstanding issue.

1 x Lencarta Safari 2 (1200Ws - 2 heads) Portable Flash System (incls Transmit & Receive triggers)
1 x Lencarta 100cm Pro Silver Reflective Umbrella
1 x Lencarta 95cm Profold Folding Octa Softbox
1 x Lencarta 100x100cm Profold Folding Softbox
1 x Lencarta Barndoors Set (incls Honeycomb & Filter Set)
2 x Lencarta 3.6m Heavy Duty Pneumatic Air Light Stand
1 x Lencarta Combined Floor/Low Level Stand
3x3m White Muslin Background (or paper?)
Rosco GaffTac 48mmx50m Gaffer Tape Grey (Wex)
1 x Lastolite Telescopic Crossbar (Wex) (already got stands)
3 X Lastolite Sandbags (Wex)

In terms of my 'issue', I wrote to my friend and fellow student (although he's just graduated) who led the Lighting Fundamentals workshop that I attended last week and who really fired my enthusiasm and made me aware that mastering flash was not beyond my capabilities and said:-"But the one question that I still can't answer (partly because I don't understand the technology) is - Will the radio trigger in the Sekonic L 758DR light meter (yes, I've bought one after hearing you talk about what it does and watching a couple of videos), fire the flashes (when I want to take a measurement) via Lencarta's Wavesync Commander system that comes with these units?

Can you tell me what the questions are that I need to ask in order to establish this?"

Of any of you can shed light on this, I'd be equally grateful.

[Manfred M]

Will the radio trigger in the Sekonic L 758DR light meter (yes, I've bought one after hearing you talk about what it does and watching a couple of videos), fire the flashes (when I want to take a measurement) via Lencarta's Wavesync Commander system that comes with these units?

In my experience the answer is no. You need PocketWizard radio triggers for this functionality to work.

I have the radio trigger module in my Sekonic L-358 and it works fine with the PocketWizard transceivers, but does not communicate with my Godox trigger, so I have to use it in manual mode. I'm not sure of comparability of any other third part radio triggers. So far as I understand, the Elinchrom Skyport and the Profoto Air are compatible.

The Sekonic site seems to bear out the PocketWizard compatibility.

http://www.sekonic.com/canada/produc...58-series.aspx

Unfortunately, I have older Godox triggers (FT-16) , so don't know if the newer ones will work.

[Donald]

Answer in no. You need PocketWizard radio triggers for this functionality to work.

I have the radio trigger module in my Sekonic L-358 and it works fine with the PocketWizard transceivers, but does not communicate with my Godox trigger.

So, how would you take a measurement if using the Godox unit?

[Manfred M]

So, how would you take a measurement if using the Godox unit?

There is a flash mode on the meter that will take a reading when you fire your flash.

Use the transceiver that is mounted on the camera (i..e. remove it from the camera) and use it to trigger the flashes manually. The flash meter will get the reading. So far as I remember, the 758 is the "big brother" of my 358, so some of the functionality is similar. I have not used the 758, so don't know for sure.

[Donald]

Oh well, the deed is done and the order was placed this morning. And I've had notice that it's being delivered tomorrow. That's pretty good for a start.

Now, I have no interest in Lencarta as a company and I hope that what I have bought lives up to the standard suggested in all and every review I've been able to lay hands on over the past week. That will be the real proof. But I think there are times when you've got to note that things seem to have got off to a very good start.

I've been lucky in terms of the companies from whom I've bought gear here in the UK. I've always enjoyed polite and efficient service and any problems have been quickly sorted out. To that I would now add Lencarta.

It is hugely encouraging when you feel you're talking to someone who is really trying to help you, who takes time to answer your questions to make sure you understand and who genuinely makes you feel as if you matter. I get the impression that Lencarta is quite a small company. That is certainly is how it feels in terms of the personal nature of exchanges, both spoken and via e-mail.

So, already, I am feeling very positive towards the company. A nice bonus was that when I placed my order I got a message back saying that because I had ordered a particular item (barndoors), I would need an alternative reflector to that supplied as standard with the heads. When I thanked them for that and asked them to add it to my bill, they replied saying that they wouldn't dream of charging me for it. In today's world, I thought that was hugely positive.

Another learning experience from this is to understand the motivation of authors to enthuse about a particular product.

During the course of this discussion I have been on the edge of saying that I needed to go down the Speedlite route. A primary reason for that was to allow me to use High Speed Sync (HSS). I have read Syl Arena's 'The Speedliter's Handbook' and noted him saying that for him HSS (or Nikon's equivalent) was the greatest thing that ever happened in the world of flash.

Given what I want to do, I was sold. In fact I woke up at about 4am this morning and spent the next few hours thinking I'd made the wrong decision because I wouldn't be able to use HSS with the Lencarta heads.

The smart folk on here are probably ahead of me now with the story.

So I got up and really started thinking about this 'problem'. Some of you on here will recall that I own a Singh-Ray Vari ND filter.

Well, to cut a long story short after a few hours of reading and watching lots about HSS v ND Filters, the clear answer was that those who've done comparisons say that going the ND filter route is much better.

My point of all this is that I don't know what support Mr Arena gets from Canon. The foreword to his book says that his writing is completely independent of any Canon influence and I do not doubt that is so. I think his book is great and I shall continue to learn from it. But, he does only push this one point of view and does not indicate that there is an alternative option. The fact that all of his peers whose comments I've been able to find online, state that the alternative is better, left me feeling a bit naive for having swallowed his argument so completely.

It's a fundamental thing that we learn when we study - always question why the author is saying whatever it is that he or she is saying. I didn't do that in this case for which I should pay penance!

[inkista]

About Sekonic triggering...

In my experience the answer is no. You need PocketWizard radio triggers for this functionality to work. ...

Yup. 758-DR only speaks PocketWizard. The 478 has three versions with different triggers: PocketWizard trigger (L-478DR-U), one with a Phottix Strato/Odin trigger (L-478DR-U-PX), and one with an Elinchrome Skyport trigger (L-478DR-U-EL). Some of the older meters had a slot for a module in the back, but apparently Sekonic didn't license the module interface to anyone other than PocketWizard, although RadioPopper has reverse-engineered it, as did one seriously hearty soul on POTN with a bunch of Yongnuo RF-603s going spare.

One really wishes they'd go back to the module approach, and publish the interface details so any radio triggering company could make a transmitter module for Sekonic meters.

Aside from using "wait for flash" on the meter and hitting the test button on the transmitter in hand, there's another method you can use. You can attach a PC cable from the meter to the transmitter unit, so long as the transmitter allows for PC input to trigger it, and then just use the button on the meter. The Godox X1's PC port is both input (for a meter) and output (for a flash), according to Flash Havoc. Not sure about the other Godox triggers.

...
Well, to cut a long story short after a few hours of reading and watching lots about HSS v ND Filters, the clear answer was that those who've done comparisons say that going the ND filter route is much better. ...

Just me. But. Leaf shutter with built-in ND filter is EVEN better. [God, I love my X100T].

For me, the ND/HSS thing is kind of six of one half dozen of the other. While the ND filter approach is better for light efficiency, it's not good at freezing fast motion and requires that you have the correct ND filter combination you want with you (not everybody has a variable ND filter or shoots posed subjects). HSS loses about two stops of power, but you actually get the faster shutter speed. Tool for the task. One isn't necessarily better than the other; they're just better at different things. And there's also tail-syncing (Hypersync/supersync/overdrive sync), which is even more terrible on sucking the power than HSS and finicky about pulse duration, but works with lots of manual-only studio strobes and gives you the faster shutter speed. Different roads to similar goals.

It's kind of like HDR vs. exposure fusing vs. masks & layers vs. GND filters vs. digital GND filters... each technique is viable and has its own tradeoffs, even if the end goal is similar. And one may be better than the other in a given context. But you need to know the context to judge.

[Manfred M]

Aside from using "wait for flash" on the meter and hitting the test button on the transmitter in hand, there's another method you can use. You can attach a PC cable from the meter to the transmitter unit, so long as the transmitter allows for PC input to trigger it, and then just use the button on the meter. The Godox X1's PC port is both input (for a meter) and output (for a flash), according to Flash Havoc. Not sure about the other Godox triggers.

That is true, but the main reason I went with radio triggers is so I won't trip over the PC synch cord (and probably bring the whole setup crashing down).

[inkista]

That is true, but the main reason I went with radio triggers is so I won't trip over the PC synch cord (and probably bring the whole setup crashing down).

Not cabled to the trigger on-camera. Cabled from the trigger to the meter with a short (6") cable and the trigger velcroed to the back of the meter. Apparently some guys prefer operating the meter and trigger one-handed vs. holding up the meter with one hand, and firing the trigger with the other.

[Donald]

About Sekonic triggering...

Yup. 758-DR only speaks PocketWizard.

It also speaks to Lastolite triggers, as that's what I was using on a workshop last week. Indeed, is it not the case that it speaks to any triggers that use the same frequency range as Pocketwizard?

In Europe, the Sekonic radio module uses 433.62 MHz on CH1-CH16 and 434.22 MHz on CH17-CH32).

One really wishes they'd go back to the module approach, and publish the interface details so any radio triggering company could make a transmitter module for Sekonic meters

I know this is not what is meant, but in the UK, this is published. Is it reasonable to suggest (and I don't know enough about the technology to know) that the trigger manufacturers could manufacture their triggers to operate at the frequencies that would then allow the Sekonic transmitter module to function? - http://www.sekonic.com/united-kingdom/products/l-758dr/specifications.aspx.

[inkista]

It also speaks to Lastolite triggers, as that's what I was using on a workshop last week. Indeed, is it not the case that it speaks to any triggers that use the same frequency range as Pocketwizard? ...

No. Frequency is not enough to guarantee trigger compatibility. Signalling protocol also counts for a ton. All of Yongnuo's triggers are 2.4GHz, and the RF-602/603/605 triggers, 622 triggers, and -RT triggers are not compatible and do not operate. Everybody except Pocketwizard operates on 2.4GHz, and nothing works across brands. I'm surprised that you say the Lastolite triggers work.

Really old eBay triggers were designed at 433 MHz to ape the PocketWizards, but nearly everyone eventually moved to 2.4GHz, because it's free worldwide and doesn't need to be allocated (it's pretty much why so many different types of radio, such as wi-fi, live in the 2.4GHz band), and there were fewer interference issues than with the lower frequency (if you google around, historically there were a lot of antenna mods floating out there on the earlier 433MHz ebay triggers like the Cactus V2, to increase reliability/range).

I know this is not what is meant, but in the UK, this is published. ...

Yeah, that's not what I meant. Specs is one thing. Designs, pinouts, and signal protocols are another. What you need to know is more than just the signal frequency, you need to know the signal content. You need to know how the Sekonic talks to the built-in PocketWizard. The big question is how the Sekonic communicates the fire signal, as well as remote power/group (zone) control to the triggers, and how you translate that correctly into the signals your triggers uses.

It's all a moot point anyway, as Sekonic insists on building in the triggers, so you have to rebuy your light meter if you swap triggers (sigh). It could be that Sekonic is licensing signal protocols from PocketWizard, Elinchrome, and Phottix, and not the other way around.

[Donald]

Fascinating stuff. Thanks, Kathy.

[Manfred M]

Not cabled to the trigger on-camera. Cabled from the trigger to the meter with a short (6") cable and the trigger velcroed to the back of the meter. Apparently some guys prefer operating the meter and trigger one-handed vs. holding up the meter with one hand, and firing the trigger with the other.

Got it. That makes sense as you essentially bundle the trigger and light meter together. I have not seen this done before, but I have seen others use the same technique that I do with the Godox, i.e. the two-handed technique. I know one photographer who has a second Skyport (one for the hand and one for the camera's hot shoe). He uses a rather ancient Minolta meter that does not have the radio trigger functionality.