I see the Canon 60D has landed

[Crovean]

I am wondering what is wrong with CF cards?

I'm careless sometimes and I always end up bending the pins inside the camera or the card reader. (Good thing i know how to fix them) ^_^

[arith]

The only difference I can see between a 60D and a 550D is the price and one extra dial. I suspect Nikon are just as bad with their customers or are they??

The prices Canon come up with are out of this world, in the past there used to be lots of camera manufacturers, in the future there might only be one and I suspect it will be the one that treated its customers best, and didn't charge $ss for something that costs $0.ss to make.

[Colin Southern]

As a user of the xxD series Canon has produced a camera with features I (and many others, apparently) don't like. As a former Rebel user, I don't like plastic cameras. MA is useful in certain circumstances. I once had a 24-70L get "out of tune". The lens was useable, but not producing top results. Guess what? I had several shoots scheduled with old (80+) iron miners from an oral history program to shoot protraits of at the ruins of the mines they worked at 60 years ago. My 40D didn't have MA and I certainly wish I'd had that option because I didn't have time to send the lens in. As it turned out, I stopped the lens down and got decent shots (could have been better for a project of this importance). I don't buy "upgraded" cameras to lose things like frame rate. I don't like SD cards. They are tiny and more difficult to use in the field (often with cold fingers). I have CF cards already... The swivel screen is extra complexity on a camera for still photography. It will be more delicate and difficult to seal. No thanks. I like the joystick controller as it was. It is a familiar control us Canon users have enjoyed for years. Now its gone (but hey, we now have room for a swivel screen to shoot video ). I have used the PC sync port on occasion. Many strobists do.

As a customer, I don't like the 60D or the direction Canon is taking the xxD line. I don't like losing functionality for still photography in the name of video. In fact, I have no use for video at all in a personal dSLR.

Colin, please don't be offended by the wording here. The tone is not intended to be directed at you, but quite honestly, after waiting on the 60D for months, I'm not at all happy with Canon. Bottom line... No Sale.

Hi Eric,

No, I'm not offended - I'm just puzzled as to why everyone seems so "anti 60D".

Re: MA - if all else fails, there's always MF

Re: Frame Rate - yep, we lost 1FPS, but gained 3MP for the same bandwidth - and at the end of the day, the sports cameras are the 1D4 & 7D, not a 60D, not a 50D.

Re: CF -v- SD - I use both in my 1Ds3, and get over 1200 RAW shots on each - so I never change in the field. Personally I love CF cards too, but I really can't think of a good technical reason why they're better than SDHC, and I can think of one why they're worse.

Re: Swivel - for the likes of landscape where the camera might be only a few inches above uncomfortable rocks it would be a god-send for liveview work. If it's anything like the swivel screen that I had on my powershot pro70 then it's not particularly delicate and I'd like to think that we'd be taking good care of the camera anyway. Re: sealing - I don't see why it would be any more difficult to seal - and I think that anyone who uses a prosumer class camera in the rain is probably going to get water in other places before the screen.

Re: Joystick - I like mine too, but that doesn't mean to say the new way is any worse (and who knows we might end up preferring it - and it may well be on all new models).

Re: PC port - if it's a show stopper then pickup a hotshoe to PC adaptor from eBay for $5.

In all honesty, this whole debate (and I'm talking globally here, not at you Eric) reminds me of how my 89 year old mother won't have anything to do with a word processor, but will use a typewriter ... I think it's nothing more than resistance to change.

[Colin Southern]

The prices Canon come up with are out of this world, in the past there used to be lots of camera manufacturers, in the future there might only be one and I suspect it will be the one that treated its customers best, and didn't charge $ss for something that costs $0.ss to make.

Unfortunately it's not just the manufacturing costs that enter into the equation - the design costs and tooling up costs for products like this are phenominal - and then there's the overheads of management / support / advertising / infrastructure. And on top of all that they STILL have to make a profit for the shareholders.

I had to have the sensor removed from my camera when I stuffed the cleaning up something chronic - in little old New Zealand they had to use a $2,000,000 piece of equipment to do the job.

[hoffstriker]

OK, it took awhile but I finally read through all the posts. Wow, a lot of angry people out there. I think I know why:

#1 - Price ... The 60D does look more like a xxxD camera and Canon has made the functions more similar to the Rebel Line.

#2 - Upgrade ... The 60D was "suppose" to be an upgrade to the 50D. At least that is what the advanced amateurs expected. When in fact, it's just different. People have been waiting for a camera that will rival the 7D and when they see a different direction they are naturally angry.

#3 - Downgrade ... The 60D is not so much as a downgrade, but a lot people using the xxD camera line consider themselves to be "better" than the average consumer photog (at least those who follow camera releases). They don't want a camera that mimics the Rebel line which (be it for better or worse) this does.

#4 - Size ... The size has gotten smaller. They want the xD line, but the pocketbook does not allow it and therefore want a camera the is inexpensive yet has all the bells and whistles. The 50D is by no means a 1DsMKIII, but it's close enough that with a battery grip a person can convince himself that it's the same.

#5 - 7D ... When the 7D came out and tried to leap the crossing between the xD and xxD lines people held off thinking that the 7D would be trumped by the 60D. Well, we all now know this is not the case. And to Canon's logic, I can understand. They want to make money and know we will eventually now jump to the xD line to get what we want. They loose nothing and at the same time make more profit. And at the end of the day, it is all about profit.

#6 - Consumer Line ... The xxD is suppose to be the Prosumer Line, but the 60D appears to be more of a consumer line. Well, it is. And it isn't. It still has all the same controls as the 50D you just have to find them differently. It still accepts L series lens. It has more mp than the 50D. It just looks more like a toy, that Daddy Warbucks will have on his yearly vacation to the Caymen Islands so that "all his pictures will turn out wonderfully". It's simply a gimmick to get people with money that have absolutely no camera sense to buy and feel comfortable. It's a stepping stone to try and get more sales from people that think by spending the extra $500 to go from a xxxD to an xxD will get better pics and yet not have to learn anything cause it's all automated.

Well, I've rambled enough for now. I don't plan on buying one, and do believe a lateral move can sometimes be considered a downward move, but I understand the why. It just means my next move will have to be to an xD series if I buy new.

[Colin Southern]

Perhaps they're repositioning into 4 lines ...

- Entry-level (550D)
- Consumer (60D)
- Advanced amateur / prosumer (5D2, 7D), and
- Professional 1Ds3, 1D4

I still don't agree with it being essentially a 550D upgrade though, from a post somewhere on the net, the 60D has ...

- prism viewfinder

- higher shooting speed

- better autofocus system

- articulated screen

- flash controller built in

- larger buffer

- thumb wheel

- electronic level

Anyway - there we have it - I think I'll move on from this thread now before I get assassinated

[Colin Southern]

Well, I've rambled enough for now. I don't plan on buying one, and do believe a lateral move can sometimes be considered a downward move, but I understand the why. It just means my next move will have to be to an xD series if I buy new.

Yeah, but don't forget ... the same group complain about the 1D series as well! (too heavy - too expensive - takes two different sorts of cards - AF doesn't work properly) (but you can have mine when you can prise it out of my cold, dead, fingers!).

[arith]

I can see where they got it wrong now; they spend $2000000 repairing a $10000 camera then misplace '0' s and the new 60D at £115'0' should be 600D at £115.

I'm not planning on buying a new camera ever, but if mine is nicked I'm going to get a Nikon.

[Colin Southern]

I'm not planning on buying a new camera ever, but if mine is nicked I'm going to get a Nikon.

Why? In real-world photography they're no different to Canon

[arith]

Customer relations Colin. Once you have got a lens you are stuck with a brand and ef-s is an expensive shortback that works on xxD models. I suspect that it will probably work on a 7D which I think is the actual intended upgrade from a 50D.

They have moved the goalposts, but try telling my insurance company the next in line to the camera I got is a 7D and not that thing. So I'm paying insurance but it is no longer insured unless you can still get brand new 50D's. Of course I've been paying insurance for years and don't expect to ever claim but if I did I will be very disapointed, and I don't think the insurers do deals where you can add a bit of money for better or take the money and buy second hand.

They have been doing this sort of thing with lenses, why is an ef-s £200 more expensive than an L type. It is too much

[Colin Southern]

Customer relations Colin. Once you have got a lens you are stuck with a brand and ef-s is an expensive shortback that works on xxD models. I suspect that it will probably work on a 7D which I think is the actual intended upgrade from a 50D.

Yes, EF-S will work on the 7D.

They have moved the goalposts, but try telling my insurance company the next in line to the camera I got is a 7D and not that thing. So I'm paying insurance but it is no longer insured unless you can still get brand new 50D's. Of course I've been paying insurance for years and don't expect to ever claim but if I did I will be very disapointed, and I don't think the insurers do deals where you can add a bit of money for better or take the money and buy second hand.

The next inline camera to the one you have is the 60D (I feel a headache coming on )

They have been doing this sort of thing with lenses, why is an ef-s £200 more expensive than an L type. It is too much

Which ones?

Any by the way, in this art of the world, Nikon is significantly more expensive than Canon.

[bmpress]

Since it is obvious that no 50D owner would upgrade to the 60D (other than a photo-mole who shoots little flowers on bended knee), Canon is throwing down the gauntlet, smugly shooting for 7D sales.

But...there is simply not enough performance for most of us to go that route, except perhaps Prince Charlie or Maybe Warren Buffet.

So...screw Canon. Until my 50D croaks, its a keeper.

[Dave Humphries]

Since it is obvious that no 50D owner would upgrade to the 60D.

I agree, in much the same way that 99% of people don't upgrade from Elements 6 to 7, or 7 to 8, the changes are too small to be worth the expense (because you're staying within one feature 'stream').

But I think a lot of people have unreasonable expectations!

If you want to get a better camera, or software, or car; you go up a model range!

Be that 40D/50D/60D to 7D, Elements 6/7/8 to CS5 or Ford Fiesta to Focus/Fusion.

They are just 'refreshing' the current model with latest technology when replacing the 50D with a 60D not providing an upgrade! I think I have Colin's headache too now