Mini competitions

[ccphoto]

What time frame is considered recent? I recently submitted a photo of a composite of an A-T7 Texan doing a Barrel Roll. The images were shot in March but not composited until April or May. Today, I submitted an image shot last August but reprocessed in Feb or Mar of this year to incorporate new skills I've learned using luminosity masks.

I am easy and will go with whatever timeline you suggest. I just don't want to bend the rules too far and will withdraw Picnic in the current Monochrome competition if suggested so?

I apologize to the group for not seeing that codicil to the submission guidelines.

Cris

[tbob]

What time frame is considered recent? Cris

I am not sure there is a rule on age of the image. I submit images I processed recently , the day they were shot varies from several days to several years. An example is the one i have in current Monochrome voting, the one of canola swathes on a hillside. That image was taken in August of 2013 but just reprocessed as monochrome before being submitted.


I will await one of the mods ruling on this

[Donald]

The idea of the Mini Comps is to support and encourage learning. Quite a lot of people don't feel confident enough to enter images in the Monthly Challenge, nor to expose their work to C & C. So, the original idea was to encourage people to post by entering these Mini Comps.

Now, I know they have evolved somewhat from the original vision but they basic principle of learning still applies I think.

So when it comes to the age of an image entered, I think there would seem to be little learning to be gained from entering an image that was made in, say 2 or 3 years ago. On the other hand, someone might revisit a photograph captured a number of years ago and re-process it on the basis of new knowledge or skills gained. That's fine.

So, in a nutshell, there are, deliberately, no hard and fast rules. It is up to the individual to decide what is appropriate.

It's maybe worth repeating that the idea of the poll being multiple choice is because it was never important or the purpose, to find a 'winner'. That's why people are asked to vote for all the images that they feel demonstrate effort, learning, skill, etc by the author, not that they are necessarily 'great' images. Again it's about encouraging people to keep improving and to post images.

This isn't really a competition for those who just want to 'win'. That doesn't achieve much beyond making the 'winner' feel good.

[ccphoto]

Then I am comfortable leaving the reprocessed image as it does represent new learning. Thank you. It is a good and reasonable answer.

[RBSinTo]

The idea of the Mini Comps is to support and encourage learning. Quite a lot of people don't feel confident enough to enter images in the Monthly Challenge, nor to expose their work to C & C. So, the original idea was to encourage people to post by entering these Mini Comps.

Now, I know they have evolved somewhat from the original vision but they basic principle of learning still applies I think.

So when it comes to the age of an image entered, I think there would seem to be little learning to be gained from entering an image that was made in, say 2 or 3 years ago. On the other hand, someone might revisit a photograph captured a number of years ago and re-process it on the basis of new knowledge or skills gained. That's fine.

So, in a nutshell, there are, deliberately, no hard and fast rules. It is up to the individual to decide what is appropriate.

It's maybe worth repeating that the idea of the poll being multiple choice is because it was never important or the purpose, to find a 'winner'. That's why people are asked to vote for all the images that they feel demonstrate effort, learning, skill, etc by the author, not that they are necessarily 'great' images. Again it's about encouraging people to keep improving and to post images.

This isn't really a competition for those who just want to 'win'. That doesn't achieve much beyond making the 'winner' feel good.

Donald,
It is refreshing to read your thoughts on this, as they are sensible and well thought out. And while you may not have expressly thought of it, your level-headed approach allows those of us (likely only me) who shoot only film to participate, as it takes me at least two or three weeks from the completion of a roll to get back my images, meaning that I never have shots available from last couple of weeks, for instance, to post.
The reason I point this out is because there is an American photo site (Nikoncafe-www.nikoncafe.com) where I also post, that in the name of having people always shooting and posting fresh images, stipulates that they must be taken during the week of the weekly challenge. Apparently, my putting up images that didn't meet this criterion (because it is impossible for me to do so), was enough to cause complaints by some members despite that there are no prizes to be won. And I was banned from participating in the weekly challenge to mollify a few others.
So thanks again for your stance on this, where inclusion is much more important than exclusion.
It is appreciated.
Robert

[Round Tuit]

I have submitted photos to mini competitions on a few occasions but generally prefer to ask for c & c when I feel my photos need improvements. I find that the direct feedback is a very effective way of improving my skills. Having said that, I do try to vote on every competition and find it useful to study the voting results and compare my choices to what others like.

The photos submitted for the monthly competitions are generally of a higher standard. They are excellent examples of the quality that can be achieved and so provide me with goals to strive for. I would however find it a more useful learning tool if more detailed voting results were given at the end of each competition. Either the total vote count and a percentage breakdown of each photo or simply the number of votes that each photo received would be very useful information. Assuming of course that it would not pose an undue burden on Donald.

What do you think?

Andre

[Donald]

The reason I point this out is because there is an American photo site (Nikoncafe-www.nikoncafe.com) where I also post, that in the name of having people always shooting and posting fresh images, stipulates that they must be taken during the week of the weekly challenge. Apparently, my putting up images that didn't meet this criterion (because it is impossible for me to do so), was enough to cause complaints by some members despite that there are no prizes to be won. And I was banned from participating in the weekly challenge to mollify a few others.

If it matters that much to some people, then, I'm sorry, but it's they who've got the problem.

What do you think?

Well folks. Let's have your thoughts.

[ScoutR]

So, in a nutshell, there are, deliberately, no hard and fast rules. It is up to the individual to decide what is appropriate.

It's maybe worth repeating that the idea of the poll being multiple choice is because it was never important or the purpose, to find a 'winner'. That's why people are asked to vote for all the images that they feel demonstrate effort, learning, skill, etc by the author, not that they are necessarily 'great' images. Again it's about encouraging people to keep improving and to post images.

This isn't really a competition for those who just want to 'win'. That doesn't achieve much beyond making the 'winner' feel good.

I say leave them the way they are. The great thing about these comps is that there are no rules, and there are no winners or losers. Post what you like, let members vote and see what happens. Ever since I have been here the mini comps have been about having a bit of fun, and perhaps testing the waters or whatever you want them to be. It would completely spoil them if they became about who can follow the rules, or if entrants ended up arguing about who broke the rules and so on and so on.

As for the monthly comps. More information would be nice, but unless the voting is automated, I think it would be too much to expect the mods to do that manually.

Just my 2 cents

[Dave Humphries]

When we started the Mini Comps, I think it was suggested in the guidelines that they should have been taken within the last week, however, the original reason was because we thought it would encourage people to go out and shoot - that seems to be far less an issue these days when almost everyone is constantly carrying a camera (in their mobile phone).

Over time, we have come to where we now say "We also ask that only recently taken or edited photos be used as entries (in the spirit of motivating everyone to continually improve).". You'll note this includes "recently ~ edited" to cover development of PP techniques, but as you'll all know, if the 'rule bending' doesn't adversely affect others, we are pretty laid back at CiC - and long may that continue.

Cheers, Dave

[IzzieK]

Despite the change of rulings, that is what I understood too of the mini contests and any other contests--like what Dave says. Even the Project 52 rules changed too. Now you can submit newly edited image of shots taken 2-3 years ago. I hate to say this but it ruined the purpose of going out each week to take a shot of something and/or be able to master a genre or try your hands on another. Well, I am sure I am not alone in my manner of thinking of how I understood the English language...

[Black Pearl]

As there are no hard and fast rules yet they continue to be popular and have plenty of submissions I don't see why anything needs to change.

[Dave Humphries]

Even the Project 52 rules changed too. Now you can submit newly edited image of shots taken 2-3 years ago. I hate to say this but it ruined the purpose of going out each week to take a shot of something and/or be able to master a genre or try your hands on another.

Playing devil's advocate, the relaxation allows members to use the P52 challenge in the way that suits them best; one/some had the declared intention of using it to regularise their improvement in PP skills.

You can therefore approach the P52 thing with any 'rules' you care to impose upon yourself - go out and shoot each week if that's the challenge you need.

... says he (me) with the staying power of a gnat on a lazy day


I guess what we need is for someone to give us a really hard time if we don't produce the shots weekly, so we have to make time in our busy lives, because the alternative is too 'uncomfortable' - so, do you want to 'partner up' and we'll nag each other to death?

That way, we don't have to be nasty to each other, just shame the other in to keeping up.

[billtils]

Interesting discussion.

I have posted a few in the monochrome mini, not viewing it as a competition but for feedback to see how the images were perceived compared to the other entries. This turned out very well - the frame of reference provided by the other images added a lot to the value of the exercise. I recently dipped my toes into the other CiC way to obtain feedback, posting for C&C, and that too was helpful, but in a more specific way.

[bnnrcn]

I'm happy with the Mini Competitions as they are. Thanks to CinC for being flexible about the rules because IMO editing an image properly is as important as shooting it properly. I mean people might shoot images in the past but might like to reedit them as they improve their PP skills . So it is nice to have the opportunity to join Mini Competitions with the recently edited images even if they were shot in the past

[Mike Buckley]

I don't know anything about the mini comps, but I have noticed over the years I have been participating here that the number of entries in the monthly competitions seems to have been reduced by about half (from about 40 to about 20). I suspect that's because the threads offer so much more value to most participants than the competitions but there could be other reasons as well. Learning those reasons might result in increased participation in the monthly competitions and increased value to the community.

[billtils]

You may well be correct Mike, and I am sure that the consistently high standard of courtesy and objectivity in the comments plays a part.

[ccphoto]

This is a shot I made a month or so ago that has been vastly improved upon by leaning some new post processing skills. While I like the idea of a weekly challenge, I think it should be just that and not hold that same standard to the Mini Comps. Under that kind of guideline, this image could not be considered.

Back to the Garden

[Didace]

... but I have noticed over the years I have been participating here that the number of entries in the monthly competitions seems to have been reduced by about half (from about 40 to about 20). I suspect that's because the threads offer so much more value to most participants than the competitions but there could be other reasons as well. Learning those reasons might result in increased participation in the monthly competitions and increased value to the community.

The bar for the monthly competitions has been set absurdly high by the very good photographers here. I don't feel my work belongs in the same pool as what is routinely entered. I would guess at least a few others feel the same.

[Donald]

The bar for the monthly competitions has been set absurdly high by the very good photographers here. I don't feel my work belongs in the same pool as what is routinely entered.

Oh God, that's what was not meant to happen. It's not meant to be about competing at all and, indeed, the word competition isn't helpful. The only competition should be internal to each participant - to see evidence of his or her improvement being acknowledged by others.

[Urbanflyer]

I am just coming late to this discussion but will add my 2 cents.

We travel twice a year for a month each time. I shoot a lot during those times and less in the time we are home. When we are home I am processing from our last trip and putting a small book together. So going out and shooting every week is not my life. But working on photography each week definitely is. My 52 week challenge related to post processing skills this year. I highly value the feedback I have gotten here. I could not participate if each shot had to be newly minted for the week.

The mini competitions I view as opportunities to get feedback in a different form. Right now I am not participating but have in the past and will likely in the future when that fits the way I need feedback. For those who are uncomfortable in that venue, just put your shots up and ask for critique--and take the responses not as personal attacks but as generous attempts to help you grow.

I am, overall, a happy camper.