Canon or Nikon, which one?

[LouiseTopp]

Hi I hope you good people can help me?

I've got a Pentax K30 and I'm looking to upgrade my equipment, the reason being is that I'm finding it hard to find accessorie's for the Pentax and I have been looking further afield.

I've been looking at the Canon EOS 750D, and the Nikon D5300. I'm a bit confused about which is the better one, I do landscapes and documenting and I don't know which one to choose. can you help me decide please?

Both come with 18-55m lenses.

Many thanks.

[Manfred M]

Which accessories are you having trouble finding, Louise? I would look at solving this issue before I threw in the towel on a system I have invested in. For the type of photography you are doing, there are very few specialized accessories that you would need, and the only one that I use (a perspective correcting lens), would not fit on either of the camera bodies that you are looking at, I believe.

If you do decide to go to either Canon or Nikon, both are good brands, but in my case ergonomics were what made the final decision. One brand was just much more comfortable to hold in my hands and work with (for me personally) than the other.

[Black Pearl]

I used a K30 for a couple of years - still have it somewhere - and I believe you will be very disappointed with either of your choices as in many ways they fall short of the what your Pentax can offer. I too would recommend looking further into what you require before changing.

[ccphoto]

Unfortunately, there are as many opinions as to the best shooting platforms as there are fish in the sea. Most times, I tell people to go with the platform that offers the best choices of lens support because in the end, it is far more about the glass than it is about MP, 1/2 or full frame, or doodad accessories. I've seen spectacular landscapes shot on a D5300 when coupled to a Nikkor 10-24 which costs almost twice what the D5300 body alone costs whereas the kit lenses that come with the camera are only marginally effective. Bundled packages are a waste of money unless you are buying Zeiss lens packs, but now you're talking big bucks. Just another opinion.

[ionian]

This is the Internet - there are always people around who will help spend other people's money - so it is refreshing that the first responses here suggest sticking with what you have. I have no experience of Pentax but I can think of plenty of places to get all sorts of gear, Pentax included.

Plus if a new camera system is what you want, why just canon or Nikon? There are some great offerings from Sony, Panasonic, Olympus and Fuji to name a few other interesting makes. Don't get caught up in buying something new for the sake of it, know what you want your new camera to do that your old one doesn't and then you can work out the best system for your needs.

[LouiseTopp]

Which accessories are you having trouble finding, Louise?

lenses for a start. I only ever use my 18-250 lens. The Cannon has a deeper grip then the Nikon.

[Manfred M]

lenses for a start. I only ever use my 18-250 lens. The Cannon has a deeper grip then the Nikon.

I would suggest that the vast majority of my shots are in that focal length range. With the exception of wildlife photography, my wife uses nothing other than an 18-200mm lens and during the 4 months I spent in India and South Asia, I pretty well exclusively shot with a 14-140mm lens (on a 2x crop factor camera), which is even less focal range than with the lens you are shooting with.

The deeper grip depends on how you hold your camera. For most of my photographic life, I used cameras without the grip and frankly prefer cameras without one.

[MrB]

lenses for a start. I only ever use my 18-250 lens.

Which lenses do you need/want that you cannot find for Pentax?

Cheers.
Philip

[Black Pearl]

lenses for a start. I only ever use my 18-250 lens. The Cannon has a deeper grip then the Nikon.

What lenses are you interested in?

Also worth considering:

Your K30 has a sensor shift image stabiliser so you get the benefit with ANY lens you put on it - not the case with either of the others bodies you've listed.
Your K30 is water resistant - so are many of the lenses - and is capable of getting seriously wet which is useful for landscape work in poor weather - not the case with either of the others bodies you've listed.
Your K30 has front and rear command dials making it very good for manual exposure - not the case with either of the others bodies you've listed.
Your K30 has a 100% coverage, glass pentaprism viewfinder which is useful for accurately framing your shot and makes for a bright view - not the case with either of the others bodies you've listed.

Yes the other bodies have advantages like articulated screens, more pixels (possible an advantage) the Canon has GPS built in etc etc so its not all one sided but the K30 punches well above its price point so is hard to beat in many areas.

[Tringa]

Lots of good points above.

The lens you use most (the 18 -250mm) will be a bit of a compromise because of the very large zoom range, but a lens with a similar range from other manufacturers is also likely to be similar. If you want to cover that range with a number of primes and or shorter zooms there are plenty of Pentax ones available.

It might be a bit more difficult to find Pentax lenses, but they are there.

In addition all old Pentax K mount lenses made from about 1975 onwards will fit the K30. For most, if not all, of these lenses you will need to focus manually but the old lenses with an 'A' on the aperture ring after the largest f number provide aperture information to the camera so apart from manual focussing, they act just like a modern lens; and the old lenses are often cheap.

As Robin has mentioned the sensor shift stabiliser means every lens, including all the old ones, are stabilised.

Dave

[Shanghai Steve]

Hi Louise
I need to make this quick, but I'd suggest you look at the lenses you want and buy the camera that allows you to use them. For landscape, you probably want a wide angle prime and a good tripod. "Documenting" is a bit vague; do you mean Street or Documentary photography, or do you tak pictures of documents and/or Artwork? For many photographers, a 35 or 50mm lens is all they need. I'd also suggest you look at Sony.

[rpcrowe]

If your choice ends up in the Canon camp, I would recommend that you consider a crop camera identified with two digits such as the 60D, 70D or 80D. IMO, the control system on these models is far superior to the control system on the 750D or other cameras identified with three digits. You can select many of the shooting parameters by using buttons on the camera body rather than having to go through the menu to make your selections.

They are a TAD bit more expensive but, I would whole-heartedly recommend spending the extra cash...

Additionally, I just love the top LCD to get a quick review of my camera settings without having to look at the back of the camera.

The 7 FPS burst is quite a bit faster than the 5FPS of the 750D

The max shutter speed of 1/8000 second could be valuable if you want to shoot wide open in bright sun

The 70D is environmentally sealed but the effectiveness of that sealing would depend on the lens being used

The 70D viewfinder shows 98% vs 95% for the 750D

The 70D has over twice the battery life: 920 shots vs 440

The 70D has a wider bracketing range 3 stops vs 2 stops

Pentaprism viewfinders are usually brighter than Pentamirror viewfinders

http://cameradecision.com/compare/Ca...-Canon-EOS-70D

[Manfred M]

Hi Louise
I need to make this quick, but I'd suggest you look at the lenses you want and buy the camera that allows you to use them. For landscape, you probably want a wide angle prime and a good tripod. "Documenting" is a bit vague; do you mean Street or Documentary photography, or do you tak pictures of documents and/or Artwork? For many photographers, a 35 or 50mm lens is all they need. I'd also suggest you look at Sony.

Steve - I will have to at least partically disagree with your suggestion here. I would not recommend fixed focal length lenses for landscape photography. The advantage of large apertures is irrelevant in landscape work where most shots tend to be taken in the f/8 - f/11 range. A decent zoom is going to give you a lot more flexibility in this type of photography.

In street photography, there are some advantages of going that way, given the smaller size of normal and medium wide angle lenses, but their higher speed may or may not be an advantage. If I shoot street scenes with my 50mm lens, I tend to zone focus and use fairly moderate apertures. I usually don't bother with a prime and use one of my zooms; usually the f/2.8 24-70mm. Without the lens hood it is a much less intimidating lens and it gives me a lot more flexibility versus one of my primes; and yes, I do shot a lot fixed focal length lenses - the Nikkor f/3.5 24mm PC-E lens comes out for architectural work a lot and my go to portrait lens is the Nikkor f/2 105mm DC lens.

I don't have any issues with the Sony, but when it comes to accessories and specialty lenses, I don't see an advantage over what Pentax offers.

[Shadowman]

I would hope the lens selections for your particular camera is larger than what is listed in this link.

http://www.pentaxforums.com/articles...ens-guide.html
Check out this link as well.
http://www.mosphotos.com/PentaxLensesExplained.html

That being presented, surprised no one has suggested third party lenses, perhaps they aren't compatible; perhaps just added to potential issues. I personally don't use to many third party lenses but have tried a few and liked the results.

[Shanghai Steve]

I can see the logic of Manfred's way of working: if you get the results, no-one can tell you your doing it wrong, eh?
I am a prime guy and if the OP looks at this link, it is easy to see why.
http://www.dxomark.com/Lenses/Ratings

The top....what....70 lenses are Primes?

I am simply not prepared to pay for a lens which I know will result in every single image I take with it being optically compromised. I would rather miss the shot. Many others feel differently.

But Louise has to make that decision for herself.

Just because a lens has a large aperture, doesn't mean you have to use it and even at f/8, many primes are just better than many zooms, but I believe that by the time most photographers have been doing it for a while, they have both and use them both when appropriate.

It occured to me that Louise could stay with Pentax if she can get her hands on a K-3 II and a 35/2.8 limited macro and/or 21mm prime. I regret that I have no knowledge of Pentax zooms to offer. But the K-3 II with pixel shift resolution mode is a powerful beast with a great lens.

[Andrew1]

On a technical level I don't believe it matters which major brand you choose. Both have models of cameras and lenses that overlap and somewhat match what the other has. Spend a bit of time to see which fits you better. How it looks, how it feels, which one makes you smile?

If you have a good friend or acquaintance that is into photography, get what they have. Similarly if there is a shop in town that rents lenses/accessories, go with what they have a majority of. Being able to borrow equipment before you decide on a purchase is a huge advantage in a hobby that can be expensive at times. Also having someone to discuss features or issues with who has the same equipment line may make it easier or more educational for both of you.

[Manfred M]

I can see the logic of Manfred's way of working: if you get the results, no-one can tell you your doing it wrong, eh?
I am a prime guy and if the OP looks at this link, it is easy to see why.
http://www.dxomark.com/Lenses/Ratings

The top....what....70 lenses are Primes?

I am simply not prepared to pay for a lens which I know will result in every single image I take with it being optically compromised. I would rather miss the shot. Many others feel differently.

But Louise has to make that decision for herself.

Just because a lens has a large aperture, doesn't mean you have to use it and even at f/8, many primes are just better than many zooms, but I believe that by the time most photographers have been doing it for a while, they have both and use them both when appropriate.

It occured to me that Louise could stay with Pentax if she can get her hands on a K-3 II and a 35/2.8 limited macro and/or 21mm prime. I regret that I have no knowledge of Pentax zooms to offer. But the K-3 II with pixel shift resolution mode is a powerful beast with a great lens.

Steve - the DxO Mark results come from lab tests where the camera and lens are mounted in what essentially is a vibration free environment. Unless you are doing your shooting from a very sturdy tripod that has been sandbagged, I suspect your results are not even close to what the test conditions are, so neither are your results, so while the lens might be capable of resolving to those levels, real life is quite different and other issues including camera movement and focus miss are going to wipe out whatever the theoretical resolution of the lens is. Lenses have a design point where they have optimal performance, and that usually is focus at "infinity" and stopped down to the f/8 range (where there is a balance between trying to get a sharp focus of all wavelengths and before diffraction starts affecting overall sharpness).

From a design standpoint, I do agree. It is far easier to optimize a fixed focus lens than a zoom lens (take a look a the number of elements and groups a zoom lens has versus what a fixed focus length lens has). This means the lens designer has to start worrying about light scattering far more on a lens with more elements and this means more expensive thin film treatments are required to manage those issues. If you look at the pro zoom lenses, you will find that they rarely exceed 3x in zoom factor; a deliberate design decision to keep ensure maximum sharpness while minimizing distortion and other quality issues.

So while many primes may indeed be better than zooms on the test bench, in real world shooting other factors outweigh this "advantage". The only time I get close to the maximum performance my lenses can offer is in my landscape work, when I work off a heavy duty tripod (which cost me more money than some of my "pro" lenses). In street photography, not a chance; there are so many other factors at play that you won't get the maximum performance out of your lens.

By the way - while I do have a formal photographic background (i.e. college level photography education), that has always been a hobby. From a career standpoint, I'm a mechanical engineer and lead design teams for much of my working life so probably understand the physics and other technical aspects of photography better than most.

[DanK]

Louise,

Some good advice already. I'll throw in my two cents.

Several people suggested not going forward until you can specify what lenses you need. I completely agree with this.

If you decide to buy a new body, the choice between Nikon and Canon isn't one I'd worry about. Both make cameras far better than those that professionals used not long ago. I agree with Manfred--the most important difference between the brands is that the controls and ergonomics aren't the same, and you may prefer one over the other.

I'd suggest that if you buy a new camera, you put several other choices ahead of this one. One of the big issues is size and weight. Mirrorless will weigh less than a DSLR, and as a general rule, the larger the sensor, the greater the weight and size (especially once you add in a lens). I'm a large person, so I don't care much, but some people do. Re format: as a rule, larger sensors will give you more dynamic range, better low light performance, and better detail, but they require longer lenses for the same framing, and depending on what you shoot and how you present (print or online, size of print), you may not notice much if any difference in quality. As Richard says, within a brand, you can get big differences in ergonomics and controls as you move up in price, and for some people (I'm one of them), those differences matter quite a bit, but other people don't find it important and like the lower weight of the less expensive cameras. In the Canon line-up, you get most but not all of the improvements if you move up from the Rebels to the 60D/70D/80D tier. Within a brand, you will also find big variations in things like the sophistication of the auto-focus system.

Re which lenses: you are the best judge of the focal lengths you find useful, regardless of the type of photography you do. Look at your images and see what focal lengths you use most, and think about when, if ever, you needed a focal length you didn't have. You may find that you use a different range than other people. For example, one person suggested you would want a wide-angle prime for landscape. Maybe you would. I wouldn't. One of the landscape photographers I follow a bit, Carl Heilmann, published one book in which he listed the focal length with each photo. He uses a wide range. I do too. I don't do a great deal of landscape, but I have used everything from 17 mm to 400mm for that purpose (in FF equivalents). 400 was the exception, but I routinely carry 17 to 200 mm with me. There are two reasons for this: sometimes you can't get as close or far away as you want without a zoom, and sometimes you want the perspective that comes with a given focal length. I accommodate this range by using three zoom lenses: 17-40, 24-105, and 70-200.

So, obviously, I don't agree with the advice to stick with primes, although if you find you like that, all power to you. I started out, many decades ago (I bought my first SLR in 1968), shooting only primes, in part because back then, zooms were generally not very good. However, many zooms are now very good, and the best of them are superb. In fact, the only primes I still own are my macro lenses. On the other hand, I do agree that superzooms often do entail more optical compromises than I will accept, so I stick with zooms with small zoom factors.

So, my advice is not to feel to constrained. Start by figuring out what focal length ranges and apertures you need. (As Manfred pointed out, you rarely need fast lenses for landscape, since you will usually end up closing down the aperture anyway.) Once you narrow down the lens(es) you want, it will be more apparent whether it is worth thinking about changing brands.

Dan

[LouiseTopp]

Which lenses do you need/want that you cannot find for Pentax?

18-140mm is one

It might be a bit more difficult to find Pentax lenses, but they are there.

Not in Salisbury they are not. I have to go to Weymouth to find a decent lens, which isn't often as I can't afford the train to get there. Used to be a bus, but that has been stopped.

Your K30 is water resistant - so are many of the lenses

One of them (the 18-250) isn't and most (I have looked at on Amazon say they aren't)

"Documenting" is a bit vague; do you mean Street or Documentary photography?

I take photos of houses and streets before the developers move in and destroy them forever. Been doing old shops which are soon to be gone, like BHS.

I might take up Castle camera's deal that they will sell me the Nikon for £389 with a 18-250 lens, if I part exchange my Pentax and lenses. They said they would give me £200, while London Camera Exchange said £150 but only the kit lens with theirs.

Should I go with Castle cameras?

[MrB]

Which lenses do you need/want that you cannot find for Pentax?

18-140mm is one

The Pentax 18-135mm zoom is a great general purpose lens, and much better than the expert reviews appear to suggest. It is also a weather-resistant lens. Have a look at all the Pentax lenses available new and used, and the reviews and sample images by real people, on the US Pentaxforums web site:
http://www.pentaxforums.com/lensreviews/

Cheers.
Philip