Trouble focussing macro.

[Geranium]

I am starting to be more interested in macro as my arthritis restricts the places I can get to now for wildlife photography and birds. i am practising inside the house on my kitchen bench which is in front of a window. i have a tripod set up and a choice of two tripod heads. A grip handle Manfrotto ball head and a Manfrotto pan three handle head. With either . I find it quite tricky to lock the focus area exactly where i want it. My hands are a bit weak with arthritis but I think I am locking them tightly., I use "live view" to compose and focus ( manual of course) and The central focus area always seems to move a fraction as I lock it. i am using a Tamron 2.8 90mm lense on my Nikon 7100 ( sometimes with a teleconverter) , and even when the subject is stationary ( shell or a flower etc) And even when the image looks sharp on the viewing screen it is not so on my computer.I use remote mirror up .I wear glasses and wonder if that is part of the problem....that maybe i see the live image as sharp through my glasses on camera live view when in reality it is not... or if the shutter action ..even with mirror up and remote.. still causes a little blur. I have experimented using different depths of field and shutter speeds. I occasionally get a reasonably sharp image but not often and it just seems like a fluke. Sorry this is so long winded. Can anyone relate to this Or have some suggestions. Cheers and thanks., Denise.

[AlwaysOnAuto]

Denise - I can relate to it. I don't wear glasses when I'm shooting (and probably should) and have hit or miss luck too. I've had my best luck getting good pictures using the self timer when shooting with my Sony cameras. When using my D7000 I have a wired remote which helps a lot. I rely on the 'green dot' for focus when using manual focus lenses, but I think you have to be using the view finder to see it as it doesn't show up in 'live view'. I've also experimented with smaller apertures and longer exposure times to help increase the DOF.

[Black Pearl]

Please post a couple of examples with the shutter speed/aperture/iso used. Yes I know they aren't your best shots but they will give a good starting point for...well...pointers.


In general though you frame the image - lock off the head - THEN focus - then take the shot.
You want to be stopped down to f8-f11 to maximise your depth of field and using the delayed release is a great idea if your subject is static. Do you know you can use the digital zoom function on the rear LCD while you are using Live View to magnify the focus point to help get critical focus?

[Sunray]

Hello Denise,

when I shoot stationary objects with manual focus using a tripod I zoom in to x5 or even x10 on camera "live view" screen to see if focus is on the right place. In my experience it is hard to judge focus on camera "live view" screen without magnification. Does your lense has an image stabilizer ? Many image stabilizers (Tamron calls them Vibration Compensation (VC)) do not work well on tripods. If your lense has an integrated VC disable it when using a tripod.

Robert

[xpatUSA]

Please post a couple of examples with the shutter speed/aperture/iso used. Yes I know they aren't your best shots but they will give a good starting point for...well...pointers.


In general though you frame the image - lock off the head - THEN focus - then take the shot.
You want to be stopped down to f8-f11 to maximise your depth of field and using the delayed release is a great idea if your subject is static. Do you know [if] you can use the digital zoom function on the rear LCD while you are using Live View to magnify the focus point to help get critical focus?

Denise, sorry to hear of the arthritis.

I looked up the Tamron 90mm on SlrGear. Of the 3 models listed, only one was lab-tested:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/lens...-sp-af/review/

Their blur widget seems to show f/8 as being pretty good from a flat field point of view, if that's of any help.

I find that moving back a bit greatly improves the DOF in table-top work and since I only view on a monitor, the necessary cropping is no big deal. I'm saying that because when I first started close-up work, my grail was to totally fill the frame with the subject - but that minimizes the DOF and once you get past say f/11 for more DOF, diffraction blur becomes more of a factor.

My eyesight is quite poor (myopia) so I work with glasses off. The magnified live view manual focus on my Panasonic G1 is a joy to use, especially with the 90mm equivalent Leica f/2.8 macro. On the other hand, the optical viewfinder on my Sigma DSLRs is a PITA, even with a 1.35x eyepiece accessory

[Geoff F]

For me, it has to be manual focus through the viewfinder, which is the only way I can get accurate focus when just a couple of mm variation in the focusing distance is the difference between being well focused and soft.

And yes, I do the glasses shuffle when shooting. Glasses on to find the subject, off to focus through the viewfinder, then back on to check what I have shot. I have lost several pairs by tucking them in a shirt pocket then leaning forwards. So now they either go in my trouser pocket or clip to a little lug on the tripod.

[DanK]

The central focus area always seems to move a fraction as I lock it.

Yes, this is characteristic of most tripod heads. They will sag a bit after locking. You can minimize this with a geared head, but the one I have (Monfrotto junior geared head) is expensive and very heavy. The work-around is what Robin suggested: lock the head, LET IT SETTLE, and then focus.

At macro distances, depth of field is very narrow, so focusing errors that you wouldn't notice in other shooting become a real problem. In indoor, tripod-mounted work, I focus with live view, enlarging to 5 or even 10 times normal, as Robert suggested. I don't know whether your Nikon will do this, but if it does, I suggest you try it. The enlarged view in live view will show focusing errors that simply aren't visible, at least to me, through the viewfinder.

And even when the image looks sharp on the viewing screen it is not so on my computer.

Another version of the same issue. The lcd is a much, much lower level of magnification than your computer screen, and the compression hides focusing errors. That's why using the enlargement in live view is so important.

Assuming your tripod is sufficiently stable, the shutter motion shouldn't cause a problem. Using mirror lock-up, as you do, is a good precaution, even though it only matters significantly at some shutter speeds.

Wearing glasses shouldn't cause these problems. I always wear glasses when doing macro shooting.

Re apertures: as several people have noted, a smaller aperture will increase your depth of field. However, closing it down too much will induce diffraction and require a longer shutter speed, and the longer shutter opening increases the risk of motion blur. With macro sizes, I find that even shifting my weight on the floor can cause enough motion in flowers to ruin a shot. I typically shoot about f/7.1 or f/8, but I also focus-stack to increase DOF.

[Mike Buckley]

you can use the digital zoom function on the rear LCD while you are using Live View to magnify the focus point to help get critical focus

I just want to reiterate that very important point. Even when I can't achieve the desired depth of field in one shot, I can always ensure that the most important part of the image is in focus by using the largest magnification in Live View and manually focusing to ensure that area of the image is tack sharp.

[Stagecoach]

And yes, I do the glasses shuffle when shooting. Glasses on to find the subject, off to focus through the viewfinder, then back on to check what I have shot. I have lost several pairs by tucking them in a shirt pocket then leaning forwards. So now they either go in my trouser pocket or clip to a little lug on the tripod.

Geoff, have you tried having them on a cord around your neck. The cord is one of my most useful accessories as I have to do exactly the same glasses shuffle as you

[Geoff F]

Then they 'flap around' as I am manually focusing and get in my way.

Maybe a cord length which would still allow me to use my top shirt pocket as a receptacle but would prevent them from being lost when they pop out might be worth trying.

I just need them for close distances so a cheap pair from the supermarket is sufficient for me.

But so far, I haven't lost any when passing one of the 'arms' through that little lug at the top of my tripod; although I do sometimes spend a few moments looking for them because I've forgotten where I put them! All part of growing older.

[Stagecoach]

Hi Denise,

The problem of the focus point dropping as you tighten the head can be largely overcome by ensuring the CofG (centre of gravity) of the rig (camera/lens/TC?) is in line with the centre of the tripod.

This can be aided by mounting the rig on a cheap focus rail and balancing things. The focus rail can also be used to adjust focus and I find this gives less camera movement than adjusting the lens barrel with critical work. A trick I use is to also place an object (pencil in my case) between lens barrel and the focus rail to make the whole thing more rigid especially when using tubes and flash at the lens front.

For steady focusing don't forget that in some circumstances you can also move the subject rather than touch the camera.

As for your eyesite I doubt this affects things as you are looking for 'comparison' when adjusting focus, not absolutes.

One other thing, remote releases, delays, tripods set in concrete, mirror up, and expensive heads are not 'essential' but aids as many macro shots are taken hand held and adequately sharp for the viewing medium used with none of those luxuries

[Brev00]

"the central focus area always seems to move as I lock it" If this means you are locking down your tripod after grabbing focus, this, as others have noted, is your basic issue. Along with disabling vc (which you do not mention), this can cause focus problems. First, position your tripod to get your shot framed. Then, lock your ballhead. Then, use your live view to get best possible focus. Shoot. Focusing closely can cause the composition to change. The flower, for example, may now be too large to contain in the frame. I would then move the entire tripod back a smidge and get a rough feel for the shot. I will likely need to adjust the ballhead to get the intended angle, lock down again, refocus and shoot. It can be an arduous, time-consuming activity. So much so that after I get a few of the shots I wanted, I will often take the camera off the tripod and shoot free hand. It can be quite hard to get the shot that way but the camera makers made the delete button for a reason. Good luck!

[george013]

"the central focus area always seems to move as I lock it" If this means you are locking down your tripod after grabbing focus, this, as others have noted, is your basic issue.

What about trying a 3-way head?

Graham,

There was 2 years ago a thread about balancing your gear. I still think that works counter.
By adding a rail to your tripod you're adding a second turning point to the system. Your trick with the pencil helps only for the turning point between camera and rail. The one you added.

George

[John 2]

........................................And yes, I do the glasses shuffle when shooting. Glasses on to find the subject, off to focus through the viewfinder, then back on to check what I have shot. I have lost several pairs by tucking them in a shirt pocket then leaning forwards. So now they either go in my trouser pocket or clip to a little lug on the tripod.

Geoff, don't have this problem quite yet with my photography but when it comes to tools i.e. reading a vernier scale, I do. I found the following inexpensive solution:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ideas-Magni.../dp/B004TRCWBA

Used on reading glasses, I would think you could compose and then flip down for critical focus.

[Codebreaker]

One of the factors that caught me out was the use of filters on the lens. As a matter of course I fit all my lenses with UV filters - Hoya MC - just to give the lens glass a bit of protection. In most cases these have had no noticeable affect on the sharpness of images, although I do remove them for taking star and aurora shots.

However, when shooting macro I found that although the shot appeared to be in focus through the viewfinder, the results once uploaded appeared out of focus. Removing the UV filter fixed this problem and although I don't think its a focusing problem as such the filter did seem to affect the sharpness of the result.

[Stagecoach]

Graham,

There was 2 years ago a thread about balancing your gear. I still think that works counter.
By adding a rail to your tripod you're adding a second turning point to the system. Your trick with the pencil helps only for the turning point between camera and rail. The one you added.

George

George,

The thread you refer to was to do with vibration caused by mirror slap and the pros and cons of having an 'unbalanced'/''off-centre' weight at the centre line of the tripod. Denise had mentioned that she uses mirror up.

The problem raised here in the initial post by Denise is one of the camera rig change in position (focus point moving) as the tripod head is tightened. From my own experience this problem is greater when there is a large mass, heavy macro lens, plus tubes/TC hanging over the front causing a turning moment. If you stop this the rig moves less as you nip up the head, and has acted the same for both my three way pan & tilt and ball head.

[george013]

George,

The thread you refer to was to do with vibration caused by mirror slap and the pros and cons of having an 'unbalanced'/''off-centre' weight at the centre line of the tripod. Denise had mentioned that she uses mirror up.

The problem raised here in the initial post by Denise is one of the camera rig change in position (focus point moving) as the tripod head is tightened. From my own experience this problem is greater when there is a large mass, heavy macro lens, plus tubes/TC hanging over the front causing a turning moment. If you stop this the rig moves less as you nip up the head, and has acted the same for both my three way pan & tilt and ball head.

Mirror slap or any other impact of a force on the camera.

But I understand what you mean.

George

[Stagecoach]

Mirror slap or any other impact of a force on the camera.

But I understand what you mean.

George

George,

I'm glad you understand what I mean and that adding a focus rail to enable you to centralize the CoG of the camera/lens with the tripod is going to help the situation where the focus point tends to drop as you nip up.

With regard vibration/oscillations and their affect on picture sharpness have you been able to determine if lining up the CoG of camera rig and tripod is counter productive?

[MitchellKrog]

Sorry to hear about your arthritis, nothing could be worse for a photographer and I have signs of it already myself. I would say +1 for a focusing rail. Manfrotto make one which is very accurate and easy to use. I also wear glasses but not when I use the camera, luckily my bodies have a diopter adjustment which not all camera's have. If yours does not have one maybe also considering a new body that can allow that kind of adjustment to the viewfinder will help you immensely.

[george013]

George,

I'm glad you understand what I mean and that adding a focus rail to enable you to centralize the CoG of the camera/lens with the tripod is going to help the situation where the focus point tends to drop as you nip up.

With regard vibration/oscillations and their affect on picture sharpness have you been able to determine if lining up the CoG of camera rig and tripod is counter productive?

I couldn't determine the differences practical due to my floor. It's wood and my tripod is registrating every movement I make.
I'll make a drawing later. And hoping I didn't make a fool of myself.

George

And I must find a new way to publish my drawing. Picasaweb stopt working.

George