Debutante days

[wilgk]

Great series, good WB and sharp a very well done.

Thanks Maurice

[Mike Buckley]

someone once told me green grass is pretty much the same exposure setting as neutral gray

When I first got into slide film photography more than thirty years ago, I read the same thing. That was when I also read about the Sunny 16 rule. I did a test of metering off green grass and using the Sunny 16 rule while shooting the same scene in light that didn't change. The results were so similar that I then began using the two methods interchangeably.

The idea is to use green grass. The important issue about metering off green grass is that you don't want to use a spot meter that meters off green grass that has glare (the kind of glare that can be minimized or eliminated using a polarizer); use spot metering on green grass that has no glare or use evaluative/matrix metering.

[bnnrcn]

Very lively and nice set Kay

[wilgk]

Thanks Mike, my memory wasn't playing tricks on me, that's good.
Thank you Binnur, young people are always fun to work with.

[William W]

. . . I can really see easily what you mean in the first example, it's not quite as obvious in the next pair.

I Understand.

Regarding Image #4 - In the original, look closely at the girls and the boys at the two ends -

> Firstly the two boys – their shoulders seem to be too wide for their upper body (chest and waist) and also both their heads seem to be elongated, backwards.

> The girl at camera left appears quite slim and also she seems to be have a low Body Fat Index, evidenced by her shoulder / clavicle bone structure. That wide shoulder structure seems odd for her waist and also her breasts.

> The girl at camera right appears a fraction too short in the upper body and her left arm appears with more body weight that her right arm. The least obvious is the distortion in the girl at camera left – but considering the other three Subjects it is a reasonable assumption the analysis of her is correct.

These indications are typical of the edges fo the images made by the EF 16 to 35/2.8L when used at 16 mm – and I assume that is the lens which was used.

When I use my 16 to 35/2.8L at 16mm for group Portraiture, I make sure that the sides of the frame have a lot of air around them, (i.e. reasonable space from the two last people in the group to the edge of the frame. I often choose to step back a bit to do that. I also ensure that the camera is at waist level for the shot and that the camera sits level in both the horizontal and vertical alignment.

The other issue you have with that particular shot is that it is NOT an horseshoe: basically it is a straight line from the end girl at camera left through eight couples and then it turns dramatically toward the camera in a very tight arc. This makes it (almost) impossible to make perfect in Post Production the adjustments to ‘correct’ the complex distortions at both ends of the line of people – when working at such a wide angle (if you do NOT want distorted physicality of the Subjects) it is very important to have the axis of the lens at 90° to the Subject Plane and at the centre of the Subject Area and the group basically arranged symmetrically.

Sometimes it is impossible to have absolute control over the shot, in these cases I try to get as much control as possible, using the guidelines I gave above.

In the sample below, the Photographer had little control over the arrangement of the group: but still could organize the best Camera Viewpoint and also step back far enough to shoot a little bit wide at the edges. When not able direct the Group Portrait's arrangement, another useful technique is to shoot with the intention of using about a 2:1 Aspect Ratio - because 'Wide Screen' viewing can often hide from the Viewer's notice, some of the minor physical distortions of any of the Subjects in the group; sample here:


Tech: EOS 5D; EFv16 to 35F/2.8L; 580EX (Hot-Shoe Mounted)
Shooting F/4 @ 1/60s @ ISO1600, Ceiling Bonce Flash

*

With reference to the spot metre 'spot' reading, I guess I would have tried for a skin tone - as opposed to a black suit or white dress.
Other than that I could have tried for a neutral gray area even if not in the scene, at the least under the same lighting conditions.
Or as another alternative, someone once told me green grass is pretty much the same exposure setting as neutral gray - no idea who told me or when that was.

Spot Metering on a Skin Tone is what I do often – usually off the face.

I find Spot Metering is very handy for moving subjects, through changing lighting, for example in and out of the shade of trees – for example something we would encounter at outdoor Weddings.

Slightly tanned Caucasian Skin and then I open up about 1 Stop: this is my general rule of thumb. Especially when women/girls are wearing White Gowns – that exposure gives me a little overexposed for Skin Tones and is well within the headroom and does not blow the whites in the Dresses when I am using EOS 5D and 5DMkII cameras.

For very accurate metering or when the Women/Girls have make-up which could confuse the meter reading or if the men have beards or stubble, I know that the palm of my left hand is 1½ ~1⅔ Stops lighter than Photographic Grey.

Lush Green Grass is always a good to use as reference for the TTL Meter: yes, for all practical it is the same as Photographic Grey.

A credit card sized Photographic Grey Card is easy to carry too.

Of course, the skin tone; the lush green grass; the palm of my hand or the grey card MUST be in the same lighting situation as the area of the Subject/Scene that you want to be in “correct” exposure. . . and what Mike wrote about "Spot Metering" and remember that "NO GLARE from green grass" applies to Spot Metering anything: so no glossy make up on faces, or sweat, etc - in these situations use Evaluative Metering (Canon) and (importantly) fill the whole frame with the area that is being metered.

WW

[wilgk]

Thank you again Bill, making sense now, great learning replies.

[William W]

... making sense now...

good oh