Sunny 16 rule. Starting point only?

[brucehughw]

Hi,
I take a fair amount of sports photos (crew/rowing for my son and soccer/football for my daughter). Ignoring the specular highlights one encounters in crew, is sunny 16 (or not-so-sunny 11 or 8) a reliable rule? For soccer, I'm always (as you might guess) aiming at different points on the field, but I try to position myself so that the players will get somewhat consistent front or side light from the sun. If I rely on the meter, even with center-weighted metering, I'll get a lot of variation in the exposure. I'd prefer to just set the exposure manually and know that I won't get blown out highlights. The few times I've tried the sunny 16 setting, the LCD image seems very dark, so I switch back to shutter speed priority.

Has anyone used sunny 16 rule as a sort of set and forget, or is it just a starting point and you need to tweak, perhaps frequently?

Thanks, Bruce

[Hans]

Hi Bruce,

Why don't you just take a few shots in auto, pick the best exposure, look at what camera settings were chosen by the camera and then set those manually and adjust as required from there? (ISO, Shutter speed and Aperture).

It sounds like the scene, light and background is constantly changing though, so an auto setting sounds more practical.

Sunny 16 is handy to know if you don't have a light meter and you are shooting colour negative film, which has a broad latitude to strike your exposure within, on a manual SLR. It's also a good little exercise to practise your light appreciation skills. But it is only a guide to begin from or to get to a rough exposure quickly without looking at your meter (if there was ever a need to do that).

FWIW, I usually end up with an exposure on the darker side when playing with the sunny 16 rule too!

Hope this was a little helpful.

Regards,
Pete

[Shadowman]

Hi Bruce,

It could work but there are also suggested shutter speeds used for sports photography and those speeds depend on whether or not you are hand holding, the direction the subject is moving parallel to your position and also whether or not you want blur within your image. Sunny16 on a sunny day will give you a good exposure but as you know so will other camera settings.

[IzzieK]

Hi Bruce...a few months ago I was reading on the same topic on Sunny 16 rule. Then I came upon Rule 11, Rule 22, Rule 8 and etc. No joke. So I left it (sunny 16 rule) alone. There is always the Exposure triangle. Google it and decide on which article suits your understanding best.

[george013]

Hi,
I take a fair amount of sports photos (crew/rowing for my son and soccer/football for my daughter). Ignoring the specular highlights one encounters in crew, is sunny 16 (or not-so-sunny 11 or 8) a reliable rule? For soccer, I'm always (as you might guess) aiming at different points on the field, but I try to position myself so that the players will get somewhat consistent front or side light from the sun. If I rely on the meter, even with center-weighted metering, I'll get a lot of variation in the exposure. I'd prefer to just set the exposure manually and know that I won't get blown out highlights. The few times I've tried the sunny 16 setting, the LCD image seems very dark, so I switch back to shutter speed priority.

Has anyone used sunny 16 rule as a sort of set and forget, or is it just a starting point and you need to tweak, perhaps frequently?

Thanks, Bruce

I think impossible if those highlights are out of the dynamic range of the camera when exposed right for your subject.
Possible actions could be underexpose for your subject and correcting afterwards, or accept those highlights, or take care they're not part of the image.
I think with rowing and bright sun it will be impossible, but that's me.
With soccer zooming in or cropping out in pp might be a solution.

The sunny rules are guidelines. With a dslr camera you've the result on your lcd-screen with the histogram and the blinkies.

I must say I'm curious too how sport photographs deal with this on sunny days.

George

[tao2]

Hi,
I take a fair amount of sports photos (crew/rowing for my son and soccer/football for my daughter). Ignoring the specular highlights one encounters in crew, is sunny 16 (or not-so-sunny 11 or 8) a reliable rule? For soccer, I'm always (as you might guess) aiming at different points on the field, but I try to position myself so that the players will get somewhat consistent front or side light from the sun. If I rely on the meter, even with center-weighted metering, I'll get a lot of variation in the exposure. I'd prefer to just set the exposure manually and know that I won't get blown out highlights. The few times I've tried the sunny 16 setting, the LCD image seems very dark, so I switch back to shutter speed priority.

Has anyone used sunny 16 rule as a sort of set and forget, or is it just a starting point and you need to tweak, perhaps frequently?

Thanks, Bruce

Hi Bruce,

Sunny 16, like most camera "rules", isn't a "rule" at all. It's experience, observation and practice which led tae these conventions. Sunny 16 is an excellent way tae give ye several things less tae worry about whilst shooting. On a bright, sunny day - which - from yer own experience, has consistent light, then sunny 16 really can be a "set and forget", even with digital cameras. Ah use it most of the time on ma SLRs, which, even allowing for the vagaries of a Scottish climate, means ah can leave the same setting for 2/3 hours (or more) on these cameras. Especially handy for street photography.

Sunny 16, is not set in stone, e.g. the classic 125 ISO @ f16 and 1/125th (matching ISO with shutter speed) may be a bit slow for yer action photography but a fast moving subject can be captured easily at f8 @ 1/500th. This gives the same exposure but is still Sunny 16. Ah most frequently use f8/f11 as Mediterranean or prairie light is ... uncommon in Scotland

Ye only have tae keep an eye out for changeable light. Simply go out and practice it.

[brucehughw]

Hi, everyone.

Thanks for weighing in. My takeaway from your comments is that sunny 16, although called a rule, is more of a guideline. And perhaps one that was more useful in the days of film and no light meters. Glad to learn that I'm not the only one who finds it leans towards underexposure. On my next sunny outing, I'll probably begin with something like ISO 100, shutter 1/1600 (that's minus four stops with respect to 1/ISO), and aperture f/2.8 (that's +5 stops with respect to aperture) and see how that works.

Bruce

[xpatUSA]

Hi, everyone.

Thanks for weighing in. My takeaway from your comments is that sunny 16, although called a rule, is more of a guideline. And perhaps one that was more useful in the days of film and no light meters. Glad to learn that I'm not the only one who finds it leans towards underexposure. On my next sunny outing, I'll probably begin with something like ISO 100, shutter 1/1600 (that's minus four stops with respect to 1/ISO), and aperture f/2.8 (that's +5 stops with respect to aperture) and see how that works.

Bruce

Hi Bruce,

Have you seen this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunny_16_rule

I must question the proposed initial settings, though.

Although 1/1600 sec will likely freeze the action as intended, are you not concerned about the shallow DOF given by f/2.8? Not to mention the slightly lower sharpness compared to your lens "sweet spot" of around f/5.6 - f/8 . . .

[george013]

Hi, everyone.

Thanks for weighing in. My takeaway from your comments is that sunny 16, although called a rule, is more of a guideline. And perhaps one that was more useful in the days of film and no light meters. Glad to learn that I'm not the only one who finds it leans towards underexposure. On my next sunny outing, I'll probably begin with something like ISO 100, shutter 1/1600 (that's minus four stops with respect to 1/ISO), and aperture f/2.8 (that's +5 stops with respect to aperture) and see how that works.

Bruce

Don't forget it's a guideline for exposure, not camera setting.
I don't know who else said it leans towards underexposure. But whatever setting you use, if you expose for the subject on a sunny day there might be a lot of blinkies. In general.
You have 2 'problems': big difference in exposure and the blinkies. The big differences in exposure may be solved with shooting manual and keeping an eye on the lcd screen, but not the blinkies.


George

[Mike Buckley]

When photographing soccer/football, consider metering off the green part of the grass (avoiding metering off the part of the grass that displays glare). Then manually use the resulting exposure.

In any situation when you are in the same light as your subjects, consider metering off a grey card or the palm of your hand. In the latter case, determine in advance how much the exposure should be adjusted. Then manually use the determined exposure.

[DanK]

Mike beat me to it. My advice is first to decide what you want exposed well. It might be faces, for example. Then find some way to meter off that. I often use the second of Mike's approaches: put your palm in the same lighting, spot meter off that, and open up about one stop. However, in a situation like this, what you are concerned with (say, faces) may be in different lighting at different times--say, in open sun some times but shaded in others. So you may need to keep two settings in mind.

[Tringa]

As mentioned above there is likely to some very bright highlights from the water when you are photographing rowing and during the course of a race the level of these highlights could change.

During a football match the light levels might change or part of the pitch could be in the shade.

Therefore I would not use a fixed exposure but use shutter priority instead and let the camera handle the changes in light.

Dave

[Stagecoach]

From my own personal learning experience shooting rugby, cricket, car racing, sailing races and marathons over time I have come to trust my Nikons metering system in Matrix mode totally and account for the change of direction of light on the subject by manually changing EC.

By doing this I have found it extremely rare to get an image that is not acceptably exposed in varying lighting from harsh sun to shade.

As for the mode I shoot in this varies due to subject action or composition I want, sometimes aperture priority, sometimes shutter priority and more commonly now manual with auto ISO.

[brucehughw]

Hi, Ted.

I'll check some of my photos from last weekend and see how the f/2.8 looks vs a smaller aperture. Generally, I want the background blurred, and a smaller aperture helps that. is the DOF too shallow? I'll review and comment, hopefully post an image or two, too.

Hi Bruce,

Have you seen this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunny_16_rule

I must question the proposed initial settings, though.

Although 1/1600 sec will likely freeze the action as intended, are you not concerned about the shallow DOF given by f/2.8? Not to mention the slightly lower sharpness compared to your lens "sweet spot" of around f/5.6 - f/8 . . .

[brucehughw]

Grahame,

Thanks. I'm intrigued. How do you vary EC with the direction of light?

Bruce

From my own personal learning experience shooting rugby, cricket, car racing, sailing races and marathons over time I have come to trust my Nikons metering system in Matrix mode totally and account for the change of direction of light on the subject by manually changing EC.

By doing this I have found it extremely rare to get an image that is not acceptably exposed in varying lighting from harsh sun to shade.

As for the mode I shoot in this varies due to subject action or composition I want, sometimes aperture priority, sometimes shutter priority and more commonly now manual with auto ISO.

[Stagecoach]

Grahame,

Thanks. I'm intrigued. How do you vary EC with the direction of light?

Bruce

An exaggerated example Bruce, imagine you are at the side of a rugby/football pitch and one end is the sun.

Then, shooting in one direction the players will be predominately backlit and at the other end they will be front lit.

The camera metering will average the scene but you know that for a backlit subject you need to increase exposure (to get the subjects face right), and the opposite at the the other end.

Some preparation and test shots at the start (and if the light direction changes to any real degree) will give you the variation you need.

Hope that explains the reasoning.

[xpatUSA]

Hi, Ted.

I'll check some of my photos from last weekend and see how the f/2.8 looks vs a smaller aperture. Generally, I want the background blurred, and a smaller aperture helps that. Is the DOF too shallow? I'll review and comment, hopefully post an image or two, too.

You have apertures smaller than f/2.8, Bruce? . . . Just kidding, none of my cheap Sigmas go below that.

As to "is the DOF too shallow?" that becomes a matter of the shooting distance and the hyperfocal thing, so there isn't a simple answer to that question, sorry.

[Manfred M]

Bruce - the "sunny 16" rule and its variants are good to within one f-stop. Modern cameras / meters are good to 1/3 f-stop, so you do potentially loose a bit if accuracy.

With my film camera, I could have used the rule, as the camera continued to work, even if my battery (which ran the camera and the light meter) were dead. With my DSLR, if the camera turns on, so does the meter. Why would you bother with a less accurate exposure method?

[brucehughw]

Grahame,

thanks for clarifying. Taking test shots is a good idea. I sort of show up, get on the field during warmups (take photos for the team, so the coach is fine w/that) and then soon the game starts. In other words, I get to shooting rather quickly. Slowing down for some tests would help.

Bruce

Thanks.

An exaggerated example Bruce, imagine you are at the side of a rugby/football pitch and one end is the sun.

Then, shooting in one direction the players will be predominately backlit and at the other end they will be front lit.

The camera metering will average the scene but you know that for a backlit subject you need to increase exposure (to get the subjects face right), and the opposite at the the other end.

Some preparation and test shots at the start (and if the light direction changes to any real degree) will give you the variation you need.

Hope that explains the reasoning.

[brucehughw]

Hi, Manfred.

Before starting this thread, I wasn't aware that the sunny 16 and variants were only good to one f-stop. I'll confess that I was looking for some guidelines (rules, if you will) that would guarantee a good exposure (highlights not blown out) under sunny conditions. Given that I move around during the game and of course shoot in different directions depending on the action on the field, often the only consistent lighting feature is side to front lighting (try to avoid silhouettes). It would be great to make some manual exposure settings and know beforehand they would work. Seems, alas, such settings may not exist (I'll add that my team's jerseys are white and other team's are dark), so I'll need to check the histogram. Fortunately, there are always times when the action is too far for photos but some players are still close. I can easily fire off a shot or two then and check the exposure.

Bruce - the "sunny 16" rule and its variants are good to within one f-stop. Modern cameras / meters are good to 1/3 f-stop, so you do potentially loose a bit if accuracy.

With my film camera, I could have used the rule, as the camera continued to work, even if my battery (which ran the camera and the light meter) were dead. With my DSLR, if the camera turns on, so does the meter. Why would you bother with a less accurate exposure method?