Advice Needed On Internal Cathedral Photography With The 'Wrong' Lens

[erainn]

Hello

I am seeking practical advice on taking photographs of remote features within cathedrals and old churches.

Often located at some height and within low light getting a decent image can be challenging.

I am not helped with the lens I have which is a Sigma DC 17 to 50 mm 1:2.8 EX HSM, but economics means that a more appropriate zoom, or even 'super-zoom' are not affordable for me just now.

So I wondering, within the tight limitations this lens imposes for such conditions, are there any aperture /shutter speed settings which can at least maximize what quality of image is possible when using it in such circumstances.

I do use a tripod, zoom in to the max, hope that auto-focus operates and take the shot. Then I use Fireworks to get a cropped image of the feature.

Notwithstanding the obvious solution, does anyone have any suggestions how I can ensure the best possible results when taking such photographs?

Regards

[mikesan]

I am sure you have considered the obvious solutions: Long exposure time and widest aperture consistent with desired depth of field. With modern cameras in light starved situations, the next step is push the ISO as far as is consistent with noise tolerance. That will depend on what camera you are using. Beyond that good post processing software can help to an extent. I am not familiar with Fireworks.

[AlwaysOnAuto]

Knowing what little I do about photography, if I were faced with this problem I think I would do some experimenting with my camera/lens combo.
I'm not sure if zooming to the max is going to give the best results. It might pay to try multiple shots at differing zoom settings to find which gives the best result. I think doing the same with differing apertures is called for too. What I've found with my equipment is that the extremes possible with both aperture and zoom are not always the best photographically speaking. It may be that a mid-zoom shot at a closed down aperture for a longer duration works better once cropped.
Only you can determine that.
I'll be interested in what the more experienced photog's here have to say.
Mike and I must have been typing at the same time.
+1 to what he says.

[Polar01]

Why not take say a six shot pan 3 across by 2 down and stitch, then if needed crop out the area of interest. However will have to get a program that you can stitch with, you do not have to use raw files but can get away with jpegs at large or fine setting.

Cheers: Allan

[William W]

. . . I am seeking practical advice on taking photographs of remote features within cathedrals and old churches. Often located at some height and within low light getting a decent image can be challenging. I am not helped with the lens I have which is a Sigma DC 17 to 50 mm 1:2.8 EX HSM, but economics means that a more appropriate zoom, or even 'super-zoom' are not affordable for me just now.

So I wondering, within the tight limitations this lens imposes for such conditions, are there any aperture /shutter speed settings which can at least maximize what quality of image is possible when using it in such circumstances. I do use a tripod, zoom in to the max, hope that auto-focus operates and take the shot.

Then I use Fireworks to get a cropped image of the feature. Notwithstanding the obvious solution, does anyone have any suggestions how I can ensure the best possible results when taking such photographs? . . .

Using the lens that you have, it would be best to use it at a mid-aperture: F/8 ~ F/11 would be good for a starting aperture.

If your camera has "Live View", then use Live View and focus manually – if your camera has focus confirmation in the viewfinder then use that and focus manually. Avoiding Autofocus is generally a good idea any low light situation – and for the style of Photography described, you have the time to avoid AF. There is little point, nor any technical procedure in ‘hoping’ that the AF will be correct.

If your camera has “Mirror Lock Up" then use that. Also use a remote shutter release or if you do not have one, use the camera’s timer release function. The rationale is to minimize vibrations (camera movement blur) during the exposure. You could counterweight or sand-bag your tripod too.

Your camera (any digital camera) will produce poorer quality as he ISO gets into the higher range and this is not really very good for any later cropping. So IF you need to use (for example) a Shutter Speed of 5 seconds to keep the ISO around ISO400, then, in general terms, that would be better for cropping, later on.

In summary you need to:

> Keep the ISO as low as practicable

> Keep the Aperture at a mid-range - choose to use a longer shutter speed rather than use a larger aperture

> Keep the Tripod and Camera and Lens incredibly STABLE during the exposure - (This is very important: also you might think your tripod is stable, but it might not be, so do use Mirror Up and a remote or timer release - most people do not realize how much instability there actually is in a tripod and this can present as Camera Motion Blur, especially if the shutter speeds are between 1/30th to 4 seconds)

> If your physical set up is stable then you can always afford to use longer Shutter Speeds to allow you to use a lower ISO.

***

On the matter of economics and the 'obvious solution':

A "more appropriate zoom, or even 'super-zoom' " are probably NOT the most elegant solutions for you to be considering.

A Manual Focus, Manual Aperture, Telephoto Prime Lens, will easily do the trick and present very good results for this type of Photography. Many lenses like this can often be picked up for not much more than a few pennies.

***

1. What camera do you have?

2. in general terms how much do you typically crop away from the images made at FL = 50mm?

3. Two example images - one of the WHOLE FRAME and the second of the cropped image, would really assist more detailed advice.

WW

[erainn]

Thanks to all those who so kindly responded to my post, I am most grateful for your helpful suggestions and advice.

Regards

[erainn]

Bill, really appreciate your insights on this. I'll be sure to keep those points in mind.

As to my camera it's a Canon EOS 450d.

I am visiting a location in the next couple of weeks so will post the contrasting image sizes you suggest, Regards

[Manfred M]

Erainn - rather than shooting things that your equipment cannot handle, I would suggest that you concentrate shoot things that you can.

Bill has given you some very good technical advice already. Your 17 - 50mm lens means you will be shooting in the wide angle to short telephoto range on your camera body, so concentrate on things that you can do well within the limits of your lens / camera. Shooting distant objects and then cropping is just going to amplify the shortcomings of your gear.

Photography is all about the light, so concentrate on what looks interesting in the light. Some feature in the dark, poorly lit corners is not going to photograph all that well anyways. If you can get up higher, via passages and stairs, take advantage of those places for interesting shooting angles. Things you can get close to are going to make for interesting images, given the lens you are using. As Bill has suggested, a moderate aperture with your camera sitting on a sturdy tripod is going to give you the depth of field needed to keep things in focus.

[NorthernFocus]

There's plenty of good technical advice already. You didn't mention what camera body you're using but the lens that you indicated, Sigma 17-50 EX, is actually an excellent lens. But as Manfred pointed out, no matter how good your equipment is if you crop heavily your image quality will be limited. If you're doing some sort of documentary work it may be adequate for your needs but it will be less than optimal from a photographic standpoint.

[William W]

. . . As to my camera it's a Canon EOS 450d. . . I am visiting a location in the next couple of weeks so will post the contrasting image sizes you suggest, Regards

I am very familiar with the EOS 450D.

If you keep the ISO low, I suggest at or below ISO400, then, if you expose to the right as much as you can, you should be able to crop half of the image away and still have something worthwhile for on-line viewing or printing to 5" x 7".

A critical part of cropping images, especially images made in low light and low CONTRAST is to NEVER Underexpose.

As you have the time when shooting making an EXPOSURE BRACKET would be a good idea.

Remember that the exposure only has to be 'correct' for the area in the frame that you will eventually crop.

***

As encouragement for you and as an example of what is possible, here is an image of an indoor place of worship, made with a 400D; the immediate predecessor to your camera.

Here is an heavy crop of that image, which is OK when it is printed to 5" x 7".

Note the sample image was made at ISO1600 (because the camera was hand held and the Photographer required a Shutter Speed fast enough to avoid Blur), you, having a similar camera, will get better Image Quality if you stick to around ISO400.

The detail in the sample image is in an area of Medium-High Contrast and that was an advantage for cropping; but note that the bright area outside the door is blown out. That doesn't matter because the Photographer wanted the detail inside and neither could she approach any closer, nor could she use a longer lens.

Manfred mentioned dark corners ... and if the detail that you want in the Church is in a LOW CONTRAST dark corner area, then note well that exposing that area properly will be critical for you to achievr the best results that you can using the gear that you have.

*

All this technical assistance stated, please do not infer that I think this is the best way of you going about getting small details of distant areas of Church Interiors. Using a longer lens or getting closer to the detail with the lens that you have and then using Flash when you get closer (to increase CONTRAST and get better MODELLING) will render better results than any (large area) cropping.

WW

[loosecanon]

if money is tight try and find a second hand canon 75-300. Not the finest lens but it was sold as part of a kit so lots about and available from under £70.
It would give much improved results then a highly cropped image.