Six Hours of Agony

[rpcrowe]

We bought a HP Officejet 8710 for my wife. With this printer, there is supposed to be an Internet connection with Hewlett Packard which tells the company when the ink is running low. Then supposedly, the company will send an ink replenishment. If it works, the price of the ink is pretty good! However, if you decide to buy the ink on other than that plan, the price is quite high, Hewlett Packard has arranged the price schedule so that customers will use the plan. I have not found refurbished ink cartridges from the normal sources that I have used in the past to buy third party ink cartridges.

The problem is that the printer would not hold the Internet connection. My wife has been on the phone three times each time for two hours. The first two times she spoke to a person in a country in which English was not a native language. That was four hours wasted (literally 2 hours for each call). She finally, for some strange reason was connected to a customer service representative in Canada who, after another two hours of diagnostics, came to the conclusion that the printer was defective.

A new (refurbished) printer will arrive tomorrow and we will send this printer back in the box that the replacement printer was shipped.

The 8710 actually does a great job printing. It even does a pretty creditable job printing photos. If the ink replacement program works, the price for a color print is really very reasonable. If I don't need custom, gallery quality; this is the printer I will use for most of my run of the mill printing....

Here's hoping that it will work...

[Codebreaker]

So sorry to hear about your problems. Customer service these days is sadly lacking.

HP came in for a lot of criticism recently due to a issue with a software update which then meant the printer couldn't use thrid party inks.

https://blogs.which.co.uk/technology...nk-cartridges/

Supposedly a dynamic security feature to prevent use of counterfeit inks. Not of course that HP makes more money from their own ink than it does from the printer.

A fix to overcome this has been issued.

[Tronhard]

I returned to live in BC in 2014 and purchased all of my appliances for Sears Canada, including a Kenmore induction stove. When it arrived in July 2014 we found that the oven would not turn off – it would cycle on and off continuously until we turned it off at the circuit breaker. We contacted Sears who directed us to their service agents TansGlobal. Over a period of some weeks service techs replaced parts on two occasions before they decided the unit was unserviceable. They offered a “buy back” and I accepted a swap for another unit of the same type. After some delays this was delivered in October 2015 – five months after the original issue. I went to New Zealand from November until the end of March 2016 to be with my partner, who was suffering from cancer and was undergoing operations and therapy sessions over there. Upon return I began using the new stove and found that occasionally the induction elements would not work. Initially I put this down to user error but as they become more frequent I called TransGlobal Services and they arranged a technician to visit. I had videoed the errors and when he saw them he told me it was a not uncommon error due to micro fractures in the control circuitry. He come back with parts but after the call it was worse than before. He said he would have to get more parts and contact his manager. That was the last I saw of a service technician…

Between June 21st and now I had 22 calls to the TransGlobal service desk and Sears. During that time I repeatedly explained my issues and was told that it was being worked on, I asked to speak to someone more senior but no one would patch me through. One person from Sears even told me he didn't know who is manager was! I was given multiple different reasons why no-one would come to fix the stove. The Sears store where I got the stove had closed so I had to deal with another outlet. When I went to seek help they appeared sympathetic and called their own people, but since they had outsourced their service to TransGlobal they could not see the service logs. Their own contact was supposed to call me but never did so, when I tracked him down he told me he was too busy but was emailing the issue and an executive would call me. No-one ever did.

Eventually, after I threatened to go to the media Sears offered a buy-back (again), this time there was a hook: to get another oven I would have to pay for it up front, then they would take back my own unit and in 10 business days would refund my original purchase price for the defective unit. Desperate to boil water I paid up. When the truck came they took away my own stove, but I discovered that they had sent the wrong stove to me. The truck would not return the old one, so I was now without any unit at all. When I went to the store they agreed they had screwed up at the dispatch, but said that was too bad and I would have to wait for a further 10 days to get the replacement. I was assured that since I had returned the defective unit the credit would be processed. I had to beg a camping unit from neighbours in the interim. After the new stove arrived I began waiting for the refund. After almost a month I asked what had happened and was told the refund was halted by the store. A further 3 visits and several emails and phone calls were needed, along with copies of all the receipts. What I found was that individuals were taking actions unilaterally and not telling anyone what they had done. When they did refund me they short paid, and it needed a further two contacts to get them to correct that.

This has taken five months to resolve and a huge amount of frustration and stress. I will never purchase anything of significance from Sears Canada again.

I used to teach customer service internationally to IT professionals at all levels from senior executives to those managing and working on service desks. When companies sell similar products then the only means they have to differentiate themselves from their competitors are price and service. Price matching is common, so service becomes the critical factor in customer retention. What many companies fail to do is put the focus on customer service, leaving a trail of disgruntled clients who tell many others what a bad experience they had. Customers are the heart of every business, and every poor service call loses a customer and future business.

It is all a matter of attitude that comes from the top down. If the focus is on doing the minimum possible instead of having happy customers it alters the culture and protocols under which customer-facing staff engage. When a service contact gets a call with a complain about an issue they need to see it as an opportunity, not a liability. Almost any device will fail, but it is how that situation is handled by the service provider or vendor that determines whether the customer comes away with a glowing impression or a bad one.

There are three things a customer needs and has a right to: Respect, Recognition, and Response:

Respect: for the fact that the customer is not a liability but valued by the provider, and that the whole focus of the call is to provide them with reasonable resolution in the most effective way possible. Respect means finding out what is needed making and keeping commitments to resolve those needs. It means asking the question that no-ever seems to want to ask: “What would make you happy?” Having asked this question of hundreds of service desk staff I have found that it is not encouraged because the provider fears the answer will be unreasonable or unachievable. Frankly this is counterproductive – if one doesn’t know what the desired outcome is, how can it be provided? It also locks the provider out of other means to obtain the client’s desired outcome. In this case I wanted something to be able to cook with. An acceptable solution could mean the supply of a loaner unit, or the offer to provide a credit and do a swap in a timely manner. I was quite happy to have a different unit and even paid the difference, but I was not happy about having to buy a new one and wait for a credit to be provided – how many people have thousands of dollars spare to replace something that should have worked to begin with? However no-one asked that question and I, along with those supposed to be supporting me, were trapped in a straight-jacket of rigid processes and lack of oversight. In other words the process became more important than the customer, and that is not respect.

Recognition: that the client is important and has an issue that is impacting upon their functionality. It also means that the client must be kept current with progress and be given accurate information. Failure to do so makes the customer feel disempowered, frustrated and angry – that turns a complaint into a dispute, which is much harder to resolve.

Response: This means providing an acceptable solution within a reasonable period of time. I feel in my case that over five months, is well outside that definition. At the very least this means making and fulfilling a commitment to respond within a specified time to a request for a call-back or response, escalating to a higher authority when the responder cannot provide a solution, and providing contact information to the customer. Response means not just updating a database with an action, but actually telling the customer what has been done.

This is not asking the vendor to be altruistic, it is simply good business sense in maintaining satisfaction and keeping customers. Good customer service is the backbone of any business, and if Sears Canada is having difficulties keeping its profitability (as the media claim) I can happily tell them why, but that would need someone in authority to get back to me, and so far I suspect that is not likely to happen…

[Jimr1961]

Should be a case study for class

"In other words the process became more important than the customer"

And this is the crux of the matter. The process is convoluted in such a fashion that nobody has the power to make a decision and nobody may be held responsible for outcomes. Result? Everyone feels powerless and nobody is happy.

[Marie Hass]

Ugh.

Marie

[rpcrowe]

My local newspaper San Diego Union Tribune was bought out by a chain of newspapers that also owns the Los Angeles Times.

They offer a Thursday through Sunday subscription which we opted for.

The problem is that their carrier cannot seem to understand the four day subscription. Regularly, we are shorted either the Thursday or the Sunday edition.

We used to be able to call the newspaper subscription office when we were shorted a newspaper and one would appear in our driveway an hour or so later. Now our call is routed to the Philippines where a very polite person will promise to make good the missing paper. However, generally absolutely nothing happens

Being a conspiracy theorist at heart I wonder if the missing newspaper might be a ploy to get people to buy seven day subscriptions. My neighbor has the seven day subscription and is never missing an issue!

[Ken MT]

"This has taken five months to resolve and a huge amount of frustration and stress"
Do they not have a consumer guarantee act in Canada? or some similar legislation.

[Donald]

Do they not have a consumer guarantee act in Canada? or some similar legislation.

I think, Ken, Richard is a few miles south of Canada!

[rpcrowe]

just a few miles

[Tronhard]

Hi Ken:

Nope, as my partner said to me when we discussed this. When you get back to NZ to live, this would not be allowed to happen. I tend to agree...

For everyone's clarification who is not a Kiwi. The Consumers' Guarantee Act is a piece of NZ legislation that basically gives consumers rights after the manufacturer's warranty has expired. It is tied to what the Consumers Institute defines as a reasonable life-span for a device or service. Say for example if I bought a TV and it died after 14months, two months after the maker's warranty. The Consumers Institute says that a TV should last 12 years, so I would take my receipt to the VENDOR and tell them under the CGA that they must arrange for the unit to be fixed or replaced (their choice) at their cost. Under the law they have to do so. This kills the need for extended warranties and puts the onus on the vendor to stand by their product or service. It does not apply to auctions or if the consumer is a commercial entity.

Canada and many other nations really need that kind of consumer protection...

[NorthernFocus]

I currently have the last HP printer that I will ever own. And NOT because it is so good. Ink cartridge issues, connectivity problems, printer going to sleep and no way to keep it from doing so, etc. I'm tired of HP "helping" me run my life. The only way I can keep it working is to prevent it from connecting to the internet and use a USB cable when I want to print.

...Canada and many other nations really need that kind of consumer protection...

There's no free lunch. We can have relatively inexpensive products and a small number of us have problems with them. Or we can take out a mortgage to buy TVs that last forever. Forever isn't that much longer for me, I'll take the less expensive prices

[Tronhard]

Your issue with your printer is exactly the kind of thing that the CGA would address, and hopefully resolve your frustration.

From your post I get the impression that you think the CGA would make goods more expensive. I did not find this to be true. It's hard to exactly match prices from NZ to the US because of the exchange rates, taxes etc. But a good look around Canada, which is in many ways similar to NZ shows that NZ prices are very competitive. The act focuses on the vendor's service to the customer rather than the manufacturer. It puts the onus on the point of contact to the customer, whereas when one has to go back to the manufacturer they often give you the brush-off as they have done in my case.

The statistic on the life span of a TV is an example, and is typical of what one would expect a unit to do anywhere on the planet.

...There's no free lunch. We can have relatively inexpensive products and a small number of us have problems with them. Or we can take out a mortgage to buy TVs that last forever.

[NorthernFocus]

...From your post I get the impression that you think the CGA would make goods more expensive. I did not find this to be true...

NZ is equivalent to about one percent of the market of North America. Or half a percent of the combined markets of NA and Europe. Throw in a few hundred million more consumers in Asia...

Good on NZ in this case for being small enough to "slip under the radar" because they aren't impacting the industry. But apply the same concept broadly across the market and prices must go up. It's econ 101.

[loosecanon]

in the UK European law is in operation to protect consumers.
The principle has been that goods should last 6 years - depending upon use etc, and must be repairable. The result has been a huge increase in reliability - no longer do washing machines have bearings that fail after a few years.
In the first 6 months the presumption is that there is a maunfacturing defect unless the maker can prove ootherwise. A fault in this time is repaired at manufacturers expense, or a full refund given - so no refurbished replacements. After this time the retailer is responsible for a repair, but can charge depending on why the repair is needed. UK consumer law has the principle that goods have to be fit for purpose, if they fail then even if it is quite a time from purchase, if one would not expect them to fail in that time then a free repair should be offered.
Of course it is much easier to enforce ones rights if one shops local, however for expensive items its worth seeking a court judgment - though in my experience the threat is sufficient for the seller to see sence.

[Ken MT]

I think, Ken, Richard is a few miles south of Canada!

It was Trev that I was referring to, BC is part of Canada.

[IzzieK]

No wonder why many Sears stores are closing shops...one near us will shut its doors soon...we had experienced many hiccups from them throughout the 25 years we live in this area..

[Ken MT]

From Google
"Sears Holdings Corporation is a leading integrated retailer focused on seamlessly connecting the digital and physical shopping experiences to serve our ..."
and I leave the rest to you.

[Thlayle]

Richard:

Ink cartridges, printer connections, customer support... in my experience, this combination alone is a perfect storm of misery. I have come around to believing it is better to send all my serious print work to labs. I will only keep a printer around for small conveniences, mostly unrelated to my photography interests.

[rpcrowe]

Richard:

Ink cartridges, printer connections, customer support... in my experience, this combination alone is a perfect storm of misery. I have come around to believing it is better to send all my serious print work to labs. I will only keep a printer around for small conveniences, mostly unrelated to my photography interests.

We use this printer primarily for documents and letters pertaining to our Dog Rescue operations. I will do a photo print occasionally when the quality doesn't have to be gallery quality. Actually, the printer does a pretty nice job printing photos and the cost for a color glossy print (ink wise) is the same as printing a black and white letter!

[rpcrowe]

During the second phone call we made, the printer communicated long enough to order a set of ink. Luckily we did not install that refill set.

We received a refurbished printer today. The instructions from HP were to remove the print head assembly including the four ink cartridges from the present printer and then install the print head assembly with ink cartridges in the replacement printer.

However, when we did that, we got a message that these ink cartridges have been in another printer (obviously, that is the one we are sending back) and they are no longer viable for use in another printer. HP does this, I am sure, to prevent people from buying third party filled ink cartridges.

This was no problem for us because we had a full set of ink cartridges which had not been installed in the printer we are replacing. However, what would have happened if we had installed the cartridges, used them not at all and then had no new cartridges to install into the replacement printer.

I definitely would not buy a Hewlett Packard Printer again!