Option 3: I keep what I keep what i have for outside and get new gear for inside

[JBW]

Hi, if you were to build a new mid price setup for indoor macro focus stack shooting of flowers, live bugs and assorted stuff what would it be.

I'm asking because the search is on.

If it is Sony I get to save on software.
Brian

[rpcrowe]

tripod with a ball head sturdy enough to hold my camera/lens steady
focusing rail sturdy enough for my camera/lens
lighting set up - either two or three cheap studio strobes or two or three compact fluorescent units or LED light setup
modifiers for above including diffusers and perhaps a snoot (maybe a hand held LED light that focuses down to a small area
background material - various
set of extension tubes with electrical connections between camera and lens (this will allow you to get greater than the 1:1 capability of your lens
perhaps a bellows setup for your sony

I don't know about your Sony set up but, if I were working with my Canon gear; I might want to shoot tethered to a laptop computer

If I were seriously into focus stacking, I might look into a way to automate the process such as with the Camranger https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2cIjCI5DtM or another type of automated stacking control.

Here are some YouTube videos that might be interesting to you:

https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...ro+photography
and
https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...king+with+sony

[Mike Buckley]

I literally have spent only a weekend with access to a macro lens and that was a few years ago. So, I'm clearly not informed enough to provide help with the details of a setup that pertain strictly to making macro images.

However, when it comes to doing the studio work, I can't begin to tell you how much more enjoyable and effective my time in the studio became ever since I began using the CamFi unit (a competitor of the CamRanger Richard mentioned) to wirelessly connect my camera to a small laptop. That's almost entirely because viewing the image on the laptop at such a much larger size than is possible when viewing the camera's LCD makes it so much easier and enjoyable to make changes to the objects in the scene and to the lighting of the scene. If it were practical to use a computer that has a larger monitor (not at all practical in my makeshift studio), that entire process would become even easier and more enjoyable.

As for the lighting, I would begin with one light source, a light stand to put it on and some reflectors made of presentation board that are cut so they stand on a tabletop on their own with no need for clamps. Once you master use of the one light source and some reflectors, you'll know what the next light source will be that meets your needs.

The must-have background material will be a piece of high-quality black velvet. That's because the felt will reflect as little light as possible and when all else fails, a black background always looks great even though not unique or creative. If you are working in a large enough room (unlike my makeshift studio), you will be able to create a black background in your images without using any material.

A roll of gaffer's tape might be the tool you use most often, except that you'll always use your camera. You will probably make use of a set of clamps in various sizes that can be purchased at an office supply store.

You'll need a tabletop even if it's not included in the image. You probably already have something around your home that will suffice.

[Stagecoach]

Will the bugs be stunned or active Brian?

[JBW]

Will the bugs be stunned or active Brian?

active but hopefully co-operative

[Stagecoach]

Ok Brian..................

Your title to this thread is

"I keep what I have for outside and get new gear for inside"

and then......If it is Sony I get to save on software.

I can only think of two reasons for changing your camera and lens .....

a) You have just won a fortune on the pools so why not spend it on some new toys once you have bought Myra a bunch of flowers

b) You think you need another camera and lens (ignore the tripod for now) to get better images

Firstly, keep the same camera and lens, if you buy a top of the range Nikon and a Nikon Macro equivalent FL lens I suspect the investment would only be warranted if you were to show and print images far greater than you do now. And I base that comment on what we have seen your camera and lens can produce when you get it right

So my list would be .............................

a) Tripod
b) Head (various options)
c) Flash that can be used on camera, on a bracket, standalone and triggered from the camera.
d) Kenko extension tube set.
e) Remote trigger, cable or wireless, for your camera
f) Focus rail. This can be used for focusing if wanted but also for lens/tube support.
g) Diffusers, home made from washing up bottles to styrofoam food containers.
h) Backgrounds for bugs, black tee shirt, pot plants, grass grown in plastic containers, big stones e.t.c ..........

General comment ...................

Bugs move even when placed in/on a studio setup. From my own experience it is extremely hard and frustrating work continually moving, manipulating and realigning equipment to keep up with them. If you add going back and forth to a remote camera control system you may end up totally frustrated but very fit.

Flowers, these can wilt very quickly when put in a studio setup, the warmer it is the faster they move

Any lighting setup must be easily and quickly moved should your bug suddenly decide it wishes to show you a different profile on the twig above the one it had happily been posing on for the previous 9 seconds

I'll think of some more later

i) The most important.......... a selection of old books, plastic ice cream containers and cardboard boxes to allow you to quickly change the heights of remote flash, background plants and torches that are used to aid focusing.

[Dave Humphries]

In my limited experience with artificial light and critters indoors, if you shine a bright blue/UV rich light on them, they'll likely get fidgety or even active, which won't aid photography, so in terms of exposures, I think flash is the only illumination option for live bugs. The downside being it doesn't allow 'modelling' for light and shadow ahead of exposure, but I'll defer to those that have done far more of it than I.

I guess that behaviour may well be species dependent though; e.g. nocturnal vs daylight active critters.


I assume your thinking was that a second camera lens set up in an indoor studio 'permanently' would allow a suitable subject to be brought in and snapped in short timescale, compared to having to reconfigure what you may be in the middle of using outdoors at the time. Well that and some available funds

I'd still probably start along the lines Grahame/Mike/Richard suggest, then add a second camera and lens as the last things - although by then, you'll be tied to Sony even more so - for the camera body and lens mount.

One last thought ...
I guess my one regret in going Nikon is that they have no MPE-65 lens for up to 5:1 macro without tubes/bellows, so that might steer you to Canon if you're sure you need that level of magnification, but I know that shooting with that lens is a rather different kettle of fish to a normal macro lens - I gather (I've watched a video tutorial on its use) it effectively has no focus adjustment, the control on the lens adjusts magnification factor (trombone style), so focus (esp. stacking) has to be done with fore-aft movement of whole camera + lens on a rail and at the tiny distances involved, it may well 'need' to be a motorized/automatic one, so significant money will be required if you go this route.

Cheers, Dave

[DanK]

Brian,

I do a lot of studio macro with stacking, so I will weigh in. My advice will be similar to Graham's.

I don't know your model of Sony, but in general, a new body is the single least useful purchase for studio macro. In studio macro, you won't use most of the bells and whistles of more expensive bodies. For all practical purposes, the body is just a box to hold the lens and sensor. if you have a good sensor, you're fine. And my recollection is that you have a Tamron 90mm, which is a fine macro lens. Get a set of Kenko tubes, and you will be ready to rock and roll, up to about 2:1 magnification (which is a lot).

Re bugs: they move, especially when warm. I am very doubtful that you will have good luck shooting them in a studio unless you chill or otherwise stun them. the change of focus will be too slow.

There has been a long discussion of tripods and heads already. That would be my top priority for a purchase.

Re lighting: this will be your biggest decision. It might be worth a separate thread about the relative advantages and disadvantages of strobes vs. continuous lighting for this. I use continuous lighting for studio macro so that I can model the light--very important with flowers--but I have low enough luminance that I need a relatively long exposure.

To start, you don't have to spend money on diffusers. You can make them from plastic, as Grahame said, or for continuous lighting, just tape a few sheets of baking parchment paper over them. I do the latter most of the time.

Re software: some general purpose software will stack. Photoshop has one stacking method. Combine is a free specialized program. I use Zerene, which is not free, and love it. The main competitor is Helicon, which I have never used. If you decide on Zerene, the author has a very good set of tutorials online. It has two different stacking algorithms that have somewhat different effects, and I routinely use both, often combining them (easy to do with Zerene).

Re bellows: no need if you are content with 2:1. Re a focusing rail: I have written about this before. They are nice to have for initial framing, but not essential for that or for focus adjustments at this magnification range. Check out my flowers. Almost all are stacked, and I have never once used my rail to adjust focusing. Not an argument that rails are bad, but if you are looking to start with minimum expense, this isn't the place to spend money.

Re remote control: I have Helicon Remote, which is wired but controls the adjustment between shots, which (once you have the parameters set right for your rig) makes this easier. However, I rarely use it. It's a nice thing to have, but here again, if you don't want to spend a lot of money, I'd skip this to start.

So, my bottom line is that if you don't have them, you need to get:
1. an appropriate tripod and head. This will be your biggest expense and will involve the most compromises. Buy one with a center post despite their disadvantages in the field. The center post is invaluable in studio macro work.
2. Lighting of some sort. If you are opt for continuous lighting, this can cost you less than #1.
3. A backdrop. I use an old black fleece jacket draped over a clothes rack I found in the basement, but a smoother paper or cloth background would be better.
4. A remote release. You can get these dirt cheap on eBay. Mine is a Yongnuo, and I think I spent something like $12 for it years ago.
5. Software to stack and to allow you to patch up the background. Software with selections makes the latter much easier.
6. If you decide to go higher than 1:1, a set of Kenko tubes.

I'll re-post a shot of a setup I used some years ago. My current setup is similar. The thing holding the flower is a Wimberley plamp. You can see my professional-grade fleece vest background. The professional-grade pile of stuff (a trumpet, toner, and a book) was for holding the flower in a vase at camera level. The lights are cheap "hair lights" for which I paid under $100 each. The bulbs are halogen spots that I picked up at a hardware store. The camera was an old 50D. My point is that for the most part, you don't need fancy stuff. The one big expense in this rig is the tripod and geared head, which together probably cost close to $500 (about evenly split between the two).

Dan

[Mike Buckley]

I'm really surprised that Dan makes such nice photos without a cup holder anywhere in that setup.

[Geoff F]

One very simple addition which I didn't see in the previous lists, although I may have missed it.

A good White Balance Card for Custom WB before shooting. I use a Lastolite Ezybalance Calibration Card which opens out to a decent size but several alternatives are available.

Some slight WB tweaking is still required but it is a great help if you start off fairly close to correct.

[DanK]

I'm really surprised that Dan makes such nice photos without a cup holder anywhere in that setup

Hidden on the desk behind me

A good White Balance Card for Custom WB before shooting

Indeed. Sorry about the omission. I use a small whiBal card. I shoot raw and just do a whiBal shot before each stack. I then adjust white balance on that shot and sync to all the photos in that stack in Lightroom.

[JBW]

I really have been paying attention and my thanks to one and al.

(1) get a tripod/ head for indoors.

(2) I have tethered capability but no live view or wireless. For now that's ok

(3) lighting is needed.

(4) cement table will be installed.

(5) for stacking I will use ImageJ

(6) extension tubes will be ordered

(7) an electric focus rail if I get good enough to need it. For now with a rigid tripod and head I can advance the focus manually.

Thanks again one and all. Now I know where to start.
Brian

[DanK]

Sounds sensible. Enjoy. It takes some practice, but you'll get the hang of it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Mike Buckley]

(1) get a tripod/ head for indoors.

(2) I have tethered capability but no live view or wireless. For now that's ok

(3) lighting is needed.

(4) cement table will be installed.

(5) for stacking I will use ImageJ

(6) extension tubes will be ordered

(7) an electric focus rail if I get good enough to need it. For now with a rigid tripod and head I can advance the focus manually.

It's clear that you overlooked the two most important posts in the thread. Sorry to inform you, Brian, that none of that will work without the cup holder.

[DanK]

It's clear that you overlooked the two most important posts in the thread. Sorry to inform you, Brian, that none of that will work without the cup holder.

Mike,

Now we know why you have so many photos of wine bottles. What is more puzzling is how you do the images with such finesse when you've already emptied the bottles.

Dan

[rpcrowe]

The advantages of small studio strobes over hotshoe flashes are: they have a modeling light, they are more powerful which is often a plus when shooting with small apertures and it is often easier to use modifiers such as diffusers or umbrellas.

Here is an example.
http://www.adorama.com/fplfbf160.html?RRref=productPage

I used a pair of cheap studio strobes to shoot this fishing fly. The lights were modified with shoot through umbrellas...


Here is the type of shoot through umbrella that I prefer because the black backing restricts the light from intruding in the subject by reflecting off walls and ceilings of the shooting room.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Photo-Studio...EAAOSwys5WV4Pz

[Cogito]

One last thought ...
I guess my one regret in going Nikon is that they have no MPE-65 lens for up to 5:1 macro without tubes/bellows, so that might steer you to Canon
Cheers, Dave

Brian, Dave, recently announced.....
Mitakon 4.5X Macro lens

[JBW]

Brian, Dave, recently announced.....
Mitakon 4.5X Macro lens

The price is right. Does anyone know about the quality?

[Mike Buckley]

Does anyone know about the quality?

Take a look at the photos the manufacturer is promoting. Good but not great. As this article says, "Quality from the 20mm Super Macro won’t keep up with the expensive Canon and Nikon macro lenses out there, that much we’re convinced of; but unlike those lenses, this one will only cost you $200 brand new."

Notice also that it has no infinity focus and no filter thread.

I am going to test drive this 2:1 macro lens soon, which has no automatic aperture. For a less extensive review but one with more photo examples, see this. There is also this review.

[DanK]

I would wait for more reviews, but as Mike pointed out, the only description I have seen so far says it isn't all that good.

I'm now confused about what this thread is really about. One topic is what's needed for a mid-priced studio setup for macros of flowers and bugs, with stacking. The second is what will get you very high magnification. These overlap, but they aren't the same topic. You can do a lot of macro of flowers and bugs without getting past 2:1, which you can do more cheaply and with higher image quality simply by adding a set of Kenko tubes to the very good macro lens you already have. On the other hand, if you want to go higher yet, you would need either bellows or a specialty lens. However, if you buy a specialty lens now, you still don't have the basics that you need: a very solid tripod, good lighting, a solid base on which to work, etc.

Take a look at my flower macros. Most of them were done either with a 1:1 lens with no tubes or with a 36mm tube.

So unless you want to spend a lot of money up front, my suggestion is that you forget about specialty lenses for now, since you will need the other equipment regardless. If you find that 1:1 is a little too low for you, buy a set of tubes. If you then find you want to do very high magnification work (which will be much harder), that would be the time to add a specialty lens.

Just my 2 cents.

Dan