Buying a Standard Lens

[andrewsugi]

Dear friends,

I am a newbie in photography and I have just learned about it for about a month (although I have had a passion for it for a couple years). Currently, I am learning photography with a mirrorless camera, Olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark II and its kit lens (14-42mm F3.5-5.6 EZ).

After using the lens for quite a while, although it is undoubtedly quite good for learning, I feel that the pictures that I take using the lens is not sharp enough and the taken pictures often showed some chromatic abberations. Therefore, I am thinking of buying another lens.

Following my thought, after some internet searching, I am determined to buy a standard lens. I am considering of buying Panasonic Lumix G 25mm F/1.7 ASPH, which has got many positive reviews and is affordable to me.

What do you think about my decision? Do I make a right decision? Should I buy a standard lens to learn further? If so, will Panasonic Lumix G 25mm F/1.7 ASPH be a good purchase for a newbie like me?

[Shadowman]

Hi Andrew,

One of our members, Inkista advised me years ago about the Lumix 29mm f/17 pancake lens, I purchased and it's used 98% of the time.

[Tringa]

Hello Andrew and welcome to CiC.

I can't comment on your choice of lens and I am not that familiar with current Olympus lenses but know some of their lenses from many years ago they had a reputation for being very good, so I'm surprised by the problems you are having. Can you post example photos showing the lack of sharpness and the chromatic abberations, along with the EXIF data so we can see the problem?

Dave

[andrewsugi]

Hi Andrew,

One of our members, Inkista advised me years ago about the Lumix 29mm f/17 pancake lens, I purchased and it's used 98% of the time.

Is it able to be used on Micro Four Third cameras?


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[andrewsugi]

Hello Andrew and welcome to CiC.

I can't comment on your choice of lens and I am not that familiar with current Olympus lenses but know some of their lenses from many years ago they had a reputation for being very good, so I'm surprised by the problems you are having. Can you post example photos showing the lack of sharpness and the chromatic abberations, along with the EXIF data so we can see the problem?

Dave

Dear Dave,

I don't mean to say that the kit lens I got with the OM-D camera is bad. I don't mean that the lens is lack of sharpness and always produced CA. It is a good kit lens, but I just feel that the sharpness it produced is just not enough for me at the present and the CA problems showed up just in certain conditions. I used to directly delete photos with CA so I don't have any proves, but you can find the problem with the kit lens online. Just look for the lens reviews and some even show some pictures with CA produced by it (but the CAs only happen occasionally).


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[Shadowman]

Is it able to be used on Micro Four Third cameras?


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Yes, didn't need an adapter but check your particular model.

[dem]

You can remove chromatic aberrations in post processing and get sharper images by using a tripod. A slightly improved lens resolution and CA would not be my main motivation for buying this lens. The main reason for buying it would be that at 25mm it can let in about 8 times more light than your current zoom lens. Having larger apertures available means more subject isolation and higher shutter speeds (less motion blur).

I would also consider Lumix G 20mm F1.7 Pancake Lens (I think it is the one John meant in post #2). You might prefer a slightly wider angle and smaller lens size. Only you can tell what subjects you shoot and what focal lengths you use more often

http://www.vandel.nl/exposureplot.html


There is also a Leica 25mm f/1.4 that can be bought second hand for slightly more than the Lumix lenses.

Happy shooting and welcome to the forum.

[andrewsugi]

You can remove chromatic aberrations in post processing and get sharper images by using a tripod. A slightly improved lens resolution and CA would not be my main motivation for buying this lens. The main reason for buying it would be that at 25mm it can let in about 8 times more light than your current zoom lens. Having larger apertures available means more subject isolation and higher shutter speeds (less motion blur).

I would also consider Lumix G 20mm F1.7 Pancake Lens (I think it is the one John meant in post #2). You might prefer a slightly wider angle and smaller lens size. Only you can tell what subjects you shoot and what focal lengths you use more often

http://www.vandel.nl/exposureplot.html


There is also a Leica 25mm f/1.4 that can be bought second hand for slightly more than the Lumix lenses.

Happy shooting and welcome to the forum.

YES!! Thank you, @dem. Thank you for clearing up my motivation for buying standard lens.

Yes, that's what exactly should be the reasons for me buying a new lens and may be the lack of light entering my kit lens is the reason why my photos weren't crisp enough. And also thank you for the recommendation.

Pardon my lack of knowledge of photography, but why the pancake lens? It seems only have a small lens in the middle which will (?) only lets lesser light into the sensor than Lumix G 25mm F/1.7 ASPH that I consider. Is it because pancake lense size is enough for 4/3 sensor?

@dem, can you also explain to me how can you calculate the number of light that may enter the lens? I want to know where the 8x come from.

[DanK]

Yes, that's what exactly should be the reasons for me buying a new lens and may be the lack of light entering my kit lens is the reason why my photos weren't crisp enough.

No, probably not. Your camera will adjust to get the same amount of light hitting the sensor regardless of the maximum aperture of the lens. This will affect sharpness only if it pushes you to too slow a shutter speed (creating blur) or if it forces the aperture all the way open. Some lenses, particularly inexpensive ones, are noticeably less sharp when wide open.

I don't know the specifics of your kit lens, but I strongly suspect that you are about to throw away money. Minor differences in sharpness don't show up at the low resolution of most computer screens. If your images are not shot wide open and don't appear sharp on screen, the chances are very high that the problem lies in technique, not equipment.

If you look at the "tutorials" part of this website, you will find the answer to dem's comment, along with good descriptions of all the basics of photography. I really recommend that you do some reading there before spending money on additional equipment.

[andrewsugi]

No, probably not. Your camera will adjust to get the same amount of light hitting the sensor regardless of the maximum aperture of the lens. This will affect sharpness only if it pushes you to too slow a shutter speed (creating blur) or if it forces the aperture all the way open. Some lenses, particularly inexpensive ones, are noticeably less sharp when wide open.

I don't know the specifics of your kit lens, but I strongly suspect that you are about to throw away money. Minor differences in sharpness don't show up at the low resolution of most computer screens. If your images are not shot wide open and don't appear sharp on screen, the chances are very high that the problem lies in technique, not equipment.

If you look at the "tutorials" part of this website, you will find the answer to dem's comment, along with good descriptions of all the basics of photography. I really recommend that you do some reading there before spending money on additional equipment.

Here are my kit lens specs:
PRODUCT HIGHLIGHTS

Micro Four Thirds Mount
28-84mm (35mm Equivalent)
Aperture Range: f/3.5-22
Three Aspherical Elements
One Extra-Low Dispersion Element
One Super High Refractive Index Element
Movie & Stills Compatible AF System
Electronic Zoom Mechanism
Minimum Focusing Distance: 7.9" at 14mm
Front Filter Thread: 37mm

What do you think?

I have tried most of the technique in the tutorials, but I still don't get the sharpness that I desire.

[DanK]

Here are my kit lens specs:
PRODUCT HIGHLIGHTS

Micro Four Thirds Mount
28-84mm (35mm Equivalent)
Aperture Range: f/3.5-22
Three Aspherical Elements
One Extra-Low Dispersion Element
One Super High Refractive Index Element
Movie & Stills Compatible AF System
Electronic Zoom Mechanism
Minimum Focusing Distance: 7.9" at 14mm
Front Filter Thread: 37mm

What do you think?

I have tried most of the technique in the tutorials, but I still don't get the sharpness that I desire.

Try posting some examples for us to examine


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[andrewsugi]

@DanK, Here they are.

#1 = 1/500s, f/4.5, ISO 640 @ 24mm (48mm FFE)



#2 = 1/1000s, f/5.6, ISO 640 @ 36mm



#3 = 1/80s, f/5.6, ISO 200 @ 42mm



#4 = 1/20s, f/3.5, ISO 500 @ 14mm

[Manfred M]

Andrew - if you are getting results that are not sharp enough with a modern lens, I strongly suspect that there is something else going on. The mFT system embeds lens correction data (mostly distortion, vignetting and CA) in the raw data and that is picked up by the raw converter and applied to the image. My experience is with Panasonic mFT cameras, but based on what I've read, Olympus works exactly the same way. If you are seeing issues with CA, in raw data (it is removed in jpegs), then there is an issue with the version of the editing software you are using, likely it is an older version that does not recognize your camera.

If there is a sharpness issue, the other cause could be your shooting technique or your choice of subjects matter. Mirrorless cameras do not focus quite as quickly as DSLRs do and if you are shooting before you get focus lock, that could be part of the issue. Likewise, these cameras, especially in multi-point focus mode, can and do select the incorrect focus plane, and that can give you soft looking images as well.

Before you start chasing a new lens, I would suggest you post some of your problem images here so that the members can have a look at them and see if a new lens is actually going to fix your issues.

[andrewsugi]

Before you start chasing a new lens, I would suggest you post some of your problem images here so that the members can have a look at them and see if a new lens is actually going to fix your issues.

OK, @GrumpyDiver! Thank you for the advice.

[Dave Humphries]

Hi Andrew,

Firstly, welcome to the CiC forums from me.

I'm another that strongly suspects that you'll either find a new lens also doesn't solve the problems, or (apparently) gives you different ones.

I don't think your current lens is the problem, your lack of knowledge, plus possibly because (I'm guessing) English is a second language, means that you are not consistently describing problems and causes in a manner that makes much sense to us.

You really must show us some examples so we can work out what is going on.
UPDATE I see you posted some while I was typing this!
I wrote the below before I saw those or read anything after post #10

I'm no expert on m4/3, but as I understand it, the lens corrections should be applied in camera if you shoot jpg and by your image editor if you shoot RAW, so if you are shooting RAW and perhaps using one converter sometimes and a different at others, that may explain why the CA is only a problem sometimes.

Regarding image softness, there can be many reasons; camera shake, subject movement, excessive cropping in PP, any of which will be made worse if you, through lack of knowledge, have used too slow a shutter speed.

Then there is focus technique, are you sure you are accurately focusing and the camera has had time to achieve AF lock?
Is the Depth of Field sufficient for the subject, did you use a suitable aperture?

Hence you need to show us some pictures so we can help determine the cause.

It is never a good idea to delete bad photos until you understand the cause, we all learn far more from our mistakes than our successes, so do keep them and learn from them, else you'll keep repeating the same mistakes.

Then there is the matter of how you are post processing the images for display and whether you are properly output sharpening them.

Trying to help,
Dave

[dem]

@dem, can you also explain to me how can you calculate the number of light that may enter the lens? I want to know where the 8x come from.

Sure. Your 14-42mm F3.5-5.6 lens will have a maximum aperture of about f/4.8 at 25mm:

https://www.ephotozine.com/article/o...s-review-26471

Now, an f/1.7 lens will let in (4.8/1.7)^2 = 7.97... times more light.

Just take the ratio of the two f-numbers and square it.

OOT. I was hoping that putting "@" in front of my name will send me automatic notifications. No, it does not... Might as well remove it.

[Manfred M]

Andrew - I've gone back and numbered your images and spaced them out to help people identify them when discussing them. I haven't had a super close look, but I don't see any significant amount of CA.

#1 - autofocus might have selected the wrong focal plane - focus should be on the subjects face and it might be a touch soft, but overall (other than a crooked horizon) I don't see a lot of issues with the image.

#2 - Cat's face is sharp, but the focus softens towards the back. This is caused by depth of field and in this case, works well as the focus is where it should be. If you want more of the cat's body to be in focus, shoot with a smaller aperture setting (larger f-stop number). You shot at f/5.6 and had you gone to f/11 more of the body would be in focus.

#3 - Looks like a missed focus issue / depth of field issue - with all of the leaves in the image the camera might have selected the wrong focal plane. Some of the leaves in front of the stick look sharp, so I suspect that is where the camera decided to focus. Again - if you want more of the scene in focus, same advice as in #2.

#4 - You shot this at 1/20th sec, which is a bit slow for a hand-held shot, so this ii is likely that camera shake is causing the softness.


Overall, I don't see any lens related issues in these images, but technique and typical new photographer "errors". I don't think getting a new lens is going to solve the problem for you. Understanding your camera and lens settings and working within those limitations will. My guess is that you have been shooting at wide open apertures for the focal lengths involved, looking at the exif data that comes with your images.

Might I suggest you start by reading some of the tutorials here on the CiC site, especially those regarding exposure, aperture and shutter speed?

[andrewsugi]

Hi Andrew,

It is never a good idea to delete bad photos until you understand the cause, we all learn far more from our mistakes than our successes, so do keep them and learn from them, else you'll keep repeating the same mistakes.

Then there is the matter of how you are post processing the images for display and whether you are properly output sharpening them.

Trying to help,
Dave

@Dave Humpries, thanks for the advice. I may have to learn more about photograhpy so I can produce better pictures.

I have one more question though. Most of the people commenting in my thread suggested me not to change my lens. Then, when is the right time for me to buy new lenses?

[dem]

No, probably not. Your camera will adjust to get the same amount of light hitting the sensor regardless of the maximum aperture of the lens.

It will. Except with a f/5.6 lens in low light you will have much less head room for adjusting ISO and shutter speed than with a f/1.7 lens. You might end up shooting at 1/10 s handheld, when a faster lens would have given you the same exposure at 1/100 s. I know which lens I would pick for photographing indoor events where flash is not an option.

[DanK]

+1 to what Manfred wrote. I think the main problems are focusing on the wrong point and insufficient depth of field, neither of which will be made any better by a new lens. It's technique. Note that in the last image, even though the shutter speed was only 1/20, the pedestal in the back appears to be in focus, suggesting that incorrect choice of focus point is the main problem, not blur from low shutter speed.