Portrait of a Woman - C&C please

[KimC]

Hi everyone. A goal I have this winter is to get better with my portraits and the PP of them (i prefer something between fine art and natural). I recently found someone willing to model for me, so I can experiment. I used one off camera flash with a 24 inch rapid box, a reflector, and an ice light to help with the shadow under her neck.

This is the first one I have PPed and I'm interested in any, and all thoughts. Thanks

[Shadowman]

Cropping is a bit tight and there seems to be an odd shadow on left eye, other than that; nicely done.

[madcrow]

Kim, technical knowledge not great, I think it's a beautiful image as is your model and well executed.

[rpcrowe]

Lovely image of a lovely woman...

I am not really keen on the dark shadow on her cheek running along the side of her nose. Perhaps bringing the light further towards camera right and placing the light closer to the subject (thereby attaining a softer light) might lessen the shadow.I might raise the light a bit also...

Additionally, having her arm placed as it is results in the arm being brighter than her face with the highlights from the silver bracelet attracting my attention. The arm also seems unusually large because of its positioning closer to the camera. In playing with the image, I had a hard time in matching the color balance of the arm to that of the subjects face. I am wondering if this is due to the fact that she may have been wearing makeup on her face and not on her arm...

[Mike Buckley]

Regarding Richard's objections to the bright arm and bracelet, both are easy fixes during post-processing. Simply darken the arm a tad. Select the bright tone in the metal and use a color picker to make that area more like the rest of the bracelet.

[Manfred M]

Kim - unfortunately, I am going to be looking at images using my 15" laptop and / or iPad for the next couple of months, so I can't get quite the same view as with my normal gear.

The first thing that strikes me is that the light is coming in a bit low for this type of portrait. Typically we tend to want the key light high enough to put the catchlights at roughly the 10 o'clock or 2 o'clock position. The shadows on the camera right side of the nose are a bit harder than we normally would want to see, so I'm wondering what kind (size) of light modifier you are using (if any) and how far away from your subject it was?

The skin tone on your model's arm suggests a cooler light on it that on her face, so again, something is a bit strange seems to be happening there.

It's hard to tell with the tiny image that you posted, but the skin and whites of her eyes look a bit overprocessed. What did you do to those areas of the image?

[KimC]

Thanks for commenting John. I purposefully cropped tight in camera as I generally enjoy tight portraits... the goal of these sessions is experimentation - see what works and what doesn't so that's why I appreciate the comments.

As for the shadow, you mean her left eye - corner closest to her ear? I do see that now... will have to try to fix with the other shadows mentioned below.

Cropping is a bit tight and there seems to be an odd shadow on left eye, other than that; nicely done.

[KimC]

Thanks Maurice.

Kim, technical knowledge not great, I think it's a beautiful image as is your model and well executed.

[KimC]

Thanks for commenting Richard. I'm not wild about the shadow on the side of her nose either. Based on comments below, it appears I may be able to fix in PP. Would def pref to get the light right so that doesn't happen. My flash/modifer was prob to far away from her, but I'm still somewhat reluctant to put it so very close to the person (I'm going to experiment on myself).

I also wasn't wild about the brightness of her arm. I did tone it down, but I guess not enough. She did have foundation on her face, so it's not possible to match her arm to her face. I think even make-up aside, a persons face and arm is not the same color - for example, I let the sun hit my arms, but not my face so my arms are a coupe shades darker.

I do know the closest item to the camera will appear larger, but I have seen some photos with a similar pose that I liked, so wanted to experiment with it.

Good point about the highlights on the bracelet.

Lovely image of a lovely woman...

I am not really keen on the dark shadow on her cheek running along the side of her nose. Perhaps bringing the light further towards camera right and placing the light closer to the subject (thereby attaining a softer light) might lessen the shadow.I might raise the light a bit also...

Additionally, having her arm placed as it is results in the arm being brighter than her face with the highlights from the silver bracelet attracting my attention. The arm also seems unusually large because of its positioning closer to the camera. In playing with the image, I had a hard time in matching the color balance of the arm to that of the subjects face. I am wondering if this is due to the fact that she may have been wearing makeup on her face and not on her arm...

[KimC]

I'm embarrassed to say Mike, I haven't figured out the color picker tool yet! I guess now is my opportunity :-)

Thanks for your comments.

Regarding Richard's objections to the bright arm and bracelet, both are easy fixes during post-processing. Simply darken the arm a tad. Select the bright tone in the metal and use a color picker to make that area more like the rest of the bracelet.

[KimC]

Well, I don't think it's hindering your review Manfred, as you will see.

Kim - unfortunately, I am going to be looking at images using my 15" laptop and / or iPad for the next couple of months, so I can't get quite the same view as with my normal gear.

I see what you are saying by 10 and 2, as mine are a bit lower and more centered.

I'm unhappy with the shadow on the size of her nose as well. I had my flash on a light stand. My flash was set slightly than her eye level and I was shooting thru a 20 inch Octa Softbox (Rapid Box) about 12 feet from her.

As for the color on her arm, you are correct - there was another light (my reference to the ice light I put in the introduction). She has put on some weight so she was concerned about how her neck looked. I placed the ice light to the side of that arm to lift the shadows under her neck... which caused the added brightness (& color change) on her arm, and bracelet. :-(

The first thing that strikes me is that the light is coming in a bit low for this type of portrait. Typically we tend to want the key light high enough to put the catchlights at roughly the 10 o'clock or 2 o'clock position. The shadows on the camera right side of the nose are a bit harder than we normally would want to see, so I'm wondering what kind (size) of light modifier you are using (if any) and how far away from your subject it was?

The skin tone on your model's arm suggests a cooler light on it that on her face, so again, something is a bit strange seems to be happening there.

I used ON1 Photo 10 for her skin and I did a little to her eyes with that. As mentioned, I am experimenting. I'm trying to find that place between totally neutral looking and the fine art imagery....

It's hard to tell with the tiny image that you posted, but the skin and whites of her eyes look a bit overprocessed. What did you do to those areas of the image?

[Rent]

I was always told that the smaller cheek ( in this case her left ) should have the most light. This gives some shape to her right one. also that the shadow from the nose should approach the corner of the mouth. In effect you are simulating sunlight which only comes from one source, So you only need one main light. You then lift the shadows with either a reflector or another (modelling ) light of lower intensity. In the case of a blond you then light the hair with a back light. But then again I am of the older school
Roy

[Dave Humphries]

Hi Kim,

As another budding portraitist, I avidly follow threads like this.

I was pleased with myself that the issues I identified on initial viewing/analysis corresponded closely with Manfred's

My flash was set slightly (higher?) than her eye level and I was shooting thru a 20 inch Octa Softbox (Rapid Box) about 12 feet from her.

That 20" light needs to be much closer than 12 feet away, no wonder the shadows are a touch harder than we'd like and catchlights as small as they are.

When you do move it closer, you'll notice that the background (bg) will become darker, so that means separating the hair from the bg will become something you positively need to light for (e.g. either subject's hair or the bg), rather than 'get away with', as you have here (as do I sometimes, when concentrating on other aspects).

I suspect the side of her arm we see is the side that doesn't get the sun so much, whereas her face may, but there's also the make up and ice light aspects to this as well.

Inadvertently lighting my subjects with different colour temperature sources is something that I keep doing too


I find the ICE light reflection in the button a distraction too, being pernickety.
That, combined with bracelet and necklace all conspire to draw my attention away from her face.

I'm being super critical with the benefit of hindsight, please don't think I'd do any better faced with a subject, if you've followed my Baby Pics series, you'll know this already.


However, you did succeed in hiding any weight issues, I don't see any, even though she's "broad" lit (or do you say lighted in US?), as Roy mentions.
Have you seen* any training on posing?
There are techniques which can help, mind you, being confident enough to ask the model would be my problem.
* seeing, in a video tutorial is much better than reading about it.

Cheers, Dave

[rpcrowe]

I use my softboxes 2-4 feet from the subject. Depending on the size odthe softbox and, of course, the size of the subject.

The closer to the subject, the larger the light is on comparison to that subject. The larger the light, the softer the light.

A point that is often made is that the sun is a very big light source. However, since it is located so far from earth, the bare sun is quite harsh.

[Mike Buckley]

You will do yourself a world of favor if all of your light sources are the same Kelvin temperature or are modified to cast the same Kelvin temperature when doing this kind of photography. When I'm in my makeshift studio, sometimes I'll intentionally use light sources with different temperatures for artistic effect, but that's only because I'm shooting objects other than people.

[Manfred M]

Kim - a few more thoughts for you. Some of these points have been touched by others already, but let me just repeat and add my thoughts to these.

1. Lightsource size vs softness of light - a small (relative to the size of the subject) light source gives one much harder light and harsher shadows than a large light source. One rule of thumb that I learned during my studio lighting course a few years ago was that to get good, soft light for portraiture, the light source should not be more than twice the diameter of the light source away from the subject. With a 20" Octa, that means keeping it no more than 40" away.

2. Position of light source - if you are just getting started with portraiture, try positioning your key light (a.k.a. main light) at the standard 45/45 position, i.e. roughly at 45° to your subject pointing down at 45°.

3. Fill light - I was under the impression that an Ice Light ran at 5500K, so the colour temperature should match the output of both studio lights and Speedlights. Obviously something is not quite right here.

I use a far simpler fill light solution - a static reflector. For a lot of my portraiture work, all I use is a roughly 24" x 30" piece of white foam core (from an office supplier like Staples / Office Depot) that I set on a c-stand with a support arm. I position it so it throws light up from the key light. I sometimes get the subject to hand-hold the reflector, pointing slightly back just below the bottom of the frame. The colour temperature will be bang on and give you roughly a 2:1 lighting ratio, which is perfect for shooting this type of subject.

4. Broad light vs Short light - as others have pointed out your shooting position is broad light. This is where you are aiming your camera at the side that your key light is hitting. This technique works well for someone with a long, narrow face and based on what you have written, this is not what your subject has.

Short lighting is far more flattering - this is where you shot from the opposite side of where the key light is pointed at (i.e. where the fill light is coming from). This has a slimming effect. I think this will work far better for the face shape of this subject.

5. Compensating for the dominant eye - you are doing this correctly. Almost every one has one eye that is larger than the other. In this case, this is the camera right eye. If you shoot towards the non-dominant eye, it will look larger and the dominant eye will look smaller. That gives a more balanced view.

Also, the way your subject is looking straight ahead, this centres the iris between two roughly equally spaced parts of the whites of the eyes, and that tends to look much better than when the whites are not as balanced. This is something else you have done well.

5. Shooting from slightly below eye level (something else that you have done) - this tends to accentuate the neck and makes it look longer, which tends to give a more slimming look.

6. Distance between model and background - a minimum of 6 - 10 ft tends to help get rid of any unwanted shadows. As you move your light closer to the subject, the inverse square law will mean that the light drop off is more severe and you will find that your background darkens up. I will sometimes position a second or third light to light the background it if is getting too dark. Your model has dark hair and you don't want it blending into the background. A hair light is also an option.

7. I'm not fond of the way you have positioned your subject's arm. If you are just getting started in portraiture, this can be a bit problematic to deal with. In this shot it is quite distracting. If you look at the very bottom of the frame - the arm is looking close to the size of the head and that just looks quite strange. Appropriate focal length choice helps here. I can't see the metadata, but I suspect you are not using a focal length that is long enough. With a FF camera for a shot like this the shortest focal length I will use is in the 105 - 135mm range.

8. Would you mind posting a larger, unprocessed image so we can see what you started with?


One other thing you might want to do, and that is to study the work of some of the great portrait photographers. I tend to get people to look at http://www.karsh.org/ . Yousef Karsh is often viewed as the greatest portrait photographer, and was one of the masters all portrait photographers should study.

There's probably more, but I can't think of anything else to write right now. Unfortunately, being on the road, I don't have access to most of my work, so can't really post anything to demonstrate what I have written about...

[chauncey]

An easy way to disguise weight issues is...simply shrinking the width by 10-15%, then crop for proper ratio.

[Rent]

Kim If you look in the Tutorial Section you will find some sound advice on portrait lighting
Roy

[KimC]

Thanks for the guidance Roy. I've only picked up my flash recently - I've found it intimidating as I can't see where the light is going to hit. As far as being "old school", I appreciate old school, as I like to know the correct way to do things. Photography is like the wild west right now IMO.

I was always told that the smaller cheek ( in this case her left ) should have the most light. This gives some shape to her right one. also that the shadow from the nose should approach the corner of the mouth. In effect you are simulating sunlight which only comes from one source, So you only need one main light. You then lift the shadows with either a reflector or another (modelling ) light of lower intensity. In the case of a blond you then light the hair with a back light. But then again I am of the older school
Roy

Thanks, I'll check that out.

Kim If you look in the Tutorial Section you will find some sound advice on portrait lighting
Roy

[KimC]

Thanks Richard. I do know the closer to the subject the softer, but I was reluctant to get it that tight. :-( I'm going to do some experimenting on myself! I learn best by doing and making mistakes - I don't learn by just reading or watching.

I use my softboxes 2-4 feet from the subject. Depending on the size odthe softbox and, of course, the size of the subject.

The closer to the subject, the larger the light is on comparison to that subject. The larger the light, the softer the light.

A point that is often made is that the sun is a very big light source. However, since it is located so far from earth, the bare sun is quite harsh.