The Nikon I really wanted, but probably won't have...

[Tronhard]

I used to shoot a combo of Nikon, Canon and Olympus gear back in the days of film. Since going digital I restricted myself to one brand and that was Canon (because of the lenses). I have always wished that someone would bring out a decent DSLR with the same look and feel as the cameras I used to use, and it looks like Nikon has done so.

http://www.nikon.co.nz/en_NZ/product...slr-cameras/df

Instead of the usual menu system it is festooned with good old fashioned dials (heaps of them) designed to take one back to the days of film, yet the Nikon Df has a 16.2-megapixel FX CMOS sensor and the EXPEED 3 image processing engine with an ISO range of 100 – 12800. Rumour has it that a 24MP Df2 is on its way this year for Canon's 100th anniversary.

Canon had not done any retro styling on their bodies yet (I can see some wag starting to type that they are ALL retro already! ).

Much as I admire Nikon, it's just too expensive to switch brands, but I'd love to play with one...

[Saorsa]

I was looking at a friends Fuji XT-2 and it looks interesting although not a DSLR. Here is the top.



One improvement that I liked was the histogram in the viewfinder and the EV control right at the thumb.

Since it's not a DSLR it does have the viewfinder latency that drives me nuts.

[Shadowman]

Trev,

Its calling you.

[Tronhard]

Hi Brian:

Definitely the look that Nikon are seeking to capture with their Df series.

[Tronhard]

It is... but 'She who must be obeyed' will call me something else if I even consider it!

It's definitely NOT cheap, and then one would have to get the lenses... sigh...

Trev,

Its calling you.

[AlwaysOnAuto]

Trev - I used to have the same want for a Nikon that did all that too. Since getting my Sony A7ii the desire for a D750 or Df have been quelled completely. It takes all my Nikon lenses via adapters and has auto focus with the addition of a Tech Art Pro adapter too. IBIS isn't bad either for all the manual glass shooting. You might want to take a look at one.

[Tronhard]

Hi Alan:
The thing that keeps me from buying the Nikon would stop me going Sony. I have tens of thousands of dollars invested in Canon bodies and lenses. Leaving aside the technological considerations, I may be murdered in my sleep if I announce that I'm switching brands!

I have no real problem with Canon, they make great lenses and I am happy with the results I get. I had just always yearned for the feel of the knobs associated with my old film gear!

[Black Pearl]

Your desire for the feel of a traditional film body was part of the reason I switched to Fuji a year or so ago - it was a major decision but one I'm very glad I made. The X-T1 has the big mechanical feeling dials I wanted but it also has the modern front and rear wheels from modern DSLR's so I get to chose depending on the situation.

A friends of mine owns a DF and I have used it a fair few times - yesterday in fact - and while it is very nice it doesn't feel anything like the camera bodies you hanker after.

[billtils]

that was Canon (because of the lenses)

What was it in particular about the lenses Trev? Mildly curious as I switched from Canon to Nikon when going digital. The reason was entirely subjective - Canon digital bodies would not accept any of my collection of lenses for the AE-1 but Nikon bodies would accept pre-digital lenses and the end result was a modest hissy fit and a trip to the Nikon store. (I used an F2 at work so had no qualms about the shift, and I know that there are work-arounds for the Canon).

[NorthernFocus]

Trev, the Df has been out for quite a while now. They can be picked up refurbed or lightly used for quite reasonable cost. Or wait for Nikon to run another combo special and get a lens or two as well.

But honestly I don't get the whole "retro" thing. I can understand the nostalgia for the look/feel. But the desire for external/mechanical dials is beyond my comprehension. At least with Nikon(having no knowledge of Canon) the ergonomics and ability to change settings quickly and without removing one's eye from the viewfinder is awesome. Particularly the "prosumer" level cameras which allow assigning functions to the various buttons.

But what I AM looking forward to is a retro style cell phone. I'm envisioning a mechanical dial in place of the annoying touch screen

[Saorsa]

I like the vertical shutter release rather than the angled button on most modern DSLRs. I think the angle results in some of my own problems maintaining a level horizon when handholding.

[DanK]

No arguing over taste, but I wouldn't want one.

I get nostalgic about my old film cameras--in particular, my Canon FTb, which still sits, unused, in a closet. I also have one retro body, my carry-in-my-pocket Lumix LS-100, which is actually more retro than the Nikon--the aperture control is on the lens barrel.

But in the end, for my choice, it all comes down to ergonomics and control--what lets me do what I want most easy, most quickly, and with the fewest errors. I make enough mistakes under the best of circumstances, so I want to minimize them. In those respects, I think the best of the modern-design DSLRs are light years ahead of the old design. I like the layout of the lumix because it gives me much more control than the typical tiny camera; most of them that I looked at require burrowing through menus to make changes. However, it doesn't give me anywhere nearly the ease of control that my Canon 5d III gives me. All of the xxD and xD bodies I have used were good in these respects, but Canon kept making them better, and when I bought the 5D III a few years ago, I was blown away by how flexible, easy, and intuitive the controls are. The fact that it is highly customizable makes the controls better yet. Just to start, I can control aperture, shutter speed, ISO, and choice of AF point without moving my right hand off the grip. So even though I do get nostalgic when I pull out my FTb, I wouldn't trade my 5D III for a camera with that design.

However, to each his or her own.

[AlwaysOnAuto]

Trev - That's what is so cool about the Sony, it's not like switching brands. Think of it more as augmenting what you have. They make adapters that will put your Canon lenses on the Sony. The main reason I got one is because I've got a couple old lenses that I inherited, along with some fine rangefinder cameras, but, I can't afford the costs associated with shooting film. The A7ii allows me to shoot all the old lenses while providing the benefits of IBIS and now with the TAP adapter, auto focus too.

[Tronhard]

Hi Alan

Since I had been using Tamron Adaptall SP II lenses on my Canon and Nikon bodies, compatibility with digital brands was not on my list and I sold all my analog gear. Nor was the body (although the makers really push them) For me lenses were the big issue as they are the longest lasting and at the high end, can be the most expensive elements (no pun intended but I like it anyway!) I was convinced by the Canon's enormous range and in particular the 70-200 MKII 2.8 L lens: probably the most widely used of its kind amongst professionals, and that was the lens range I initially needed. I got the 24-105l then too and later I went for the 17-40L. As I returned back to do more wildlife photography I got the 70-300L for an extended trip (fabulous lens and very lightweight, esp. considering it is metal), and the beefy all in one 28-300L for another effort. Finally I ended up with the 100-400L Mk I, to become the Mk II. They are all excellent lenses and I have a huge investment in them and a bunch of other Canon lenses (see my bio). So it's not easy for me to move from Canon.

The Nikon thing is more of a flirtation... More likely I wish that Canon would make a similar camera, but even then... I am not seriously considering throwing off my Canon stuff for another brand - I like the menus and I am so used to them that I don't have to think about the controls. I have rarely found that gear (apart from focal length) has held me back, it is usually my own skill that hits its limits, esp. in PP. I have not doubt that the Sony is a fabulous camera and I respect it greatly, but I am all geared up right now and with something like $40k invested, if I spent more I may not be talking to you again!

What was it in particular about the lenses Trev? Mildly curious as I switched from Canon to Nikon when going digital.

[miatab]

Trev, you obviously are a bloke who feels as strongly about your Canons as I do about my Nikon Df and my old Nikkors from F2SB days; you have a massive "investment" ha ha in Canon equipment, and it serves you well. Stick with it. . . but a little Df with a pancake f1.8, or the second edition 43-86, just for fun, as a holiday travel cam could bring back that old feeling and "put the fun back into photography" as Nikon says of its Df. It did for me, and I gave my Fuji to my son.

[Black Pearl]

No arguing over taste, but I wouldn't want one.

I get nostalgic about my old film cameras--in particular, my Canon FTb, which still sits, unused, in a closet. I also have one retro body, my carry-in-my-pocket Lumix LS-100, which is actually more retro than the Nikon--the aperture control is on the lens barrel.

But in the end, for my choice, it all comes down to ergonomics and control--what lets me do what I want most easy, most quickly, and with the fewest errors. I make enough mistakes under the best of circumstances, so I want to minimize them. In those respects, I think the best of the modern-design DSLRs are light years ahead of the old design. I like the layout of the lumix because it gives me much more control than the typical tiny camera; most of them that I looked at require burrowing through menus to make changes. However, it doesn't give me anywhere nearly the ease of control that my Canon 5d III gives me. All of the xxD and xD bodies I have used were good in these respects, but Canon kept making them better, and when I bought the 5D III a few years ago, I was blown away by how flexible, easy, and intuitive the controls are. The fact that it is highly customizable makes the controls better yet. Just to start, I can control aperture, shutter speed, ISO, and choice of AF point without moving my right hand off the grip. So even though I do get nostalgic when I pull out my FTb, I wouldn't trade my 5D III for a camera with that design.

However, to each his or her own.

I can set my aperture with the front dial like your Canon - and - I can set it with the aperture ring on the lens.
I can set the shutter speed with the rear dial similar to your Canon - and - I can set it with the shutter dial on the top.
I have a dedicated dial for changing ISO which includes switching it straight into Auto ISO without going into any menus.
I have six programmable function buttons with a good range of options for each.
I can move the AF point and change their area of coverage without taking my eye from the camera.
I have a customisable Q menu for all my day-to-day adjustments that means I don't have to trawl through menus.

In other words I have the best of modern design - and - I have traditional controls.

[Andrew1]

I couldn't bring myself to get rid of it and I still use my F3HP for black and white film on occasion. Pick up a used Canon of similar vintage for the purpose of scratching the itch once in awhile.

http://kerrisdalecameras.com/used_ca...t.html?catalog[name]=Used-Film-Cameras&catalog[decision_model_guids][0]=22dd8ec7-9cb2-448e-bd8c-d1f4b6b15562

[Tronhard]

I know that people develop a strong affinity and often loyalty to their brand of choice Looking at DPReview.com people can get pretty aggressive about touting their brand and running down others. Thankfully we don't have that happen here! I have always felt that, in a competitive market, any brand that survives must be reasonably good.

Now, as I have long since realized, once you invest to a certain point in a brand it becomes increasing difficult and costly to walk away from it, just because of the investments one makes in camera bodies, lenses and other stuff. I don't feel particularly passionately about Canon gear: I think it's strength is in its lenses and the ability to use the DSLRs for both stills and video, (although I don't do video at this point) but I also believe that Nikon makes arguably better bodies in terms of some of their sensor technology - in terms of crop sensor size and low light performance. Sony make brilliant MILCs and Fujifilm have come out with some amazing medium format technology. Bodies technology is prone to shifts between brands where one will come out ahead for a while, then another takes the 'lead'. It would be so easy to flit between brands, but I can't afford to, and in order to ground myself and remind me that it's the human element that counts most, I often haul out my 11 year old Canon 400D and go shooting with it - and it still takes great photos.

[Saorsa]

I also post on DPReview and sometimes like the squabbles. I shoot Nikon because I have since the 70s. I do change gear over time but I have yet to melt down and move to another system as some appear to do on that site. Jump from Nikon to Canon oops, the 200-500 looks good on a D500, dump Canon and shift to Nikon. I've yet to see any one lens or body so infinitely superior that I would dump thousands of dollars of equipment at a loss to pay full price for a new system.

Should such a wondrous device ever appear I might buy the lens and body for whatever special case it best suited but so far I've yet to see that on either side.

[DanK]

in order to ground myself and remind me that it's the human element that counts most

Yes, indeed. To paraphrase Ansel Adams, the weakest gear in my kit is, by a very large margin, the 30 cm behind the viewfinder.