Picture style adjustment

[Rent]

This has probably been covered before, if so apologies. On my Canon 50D I can adjust the picture styles ie sharpness, saturation,contrast and colour tone. Is this advisable, or am I better off leaving it in neutral and adjusting as needs be post op. I shoot in raw and jpeg
Thanks in advance Roy

[Craigie]

Hi Roy, I use Canon cameras and leave the settings in Picture Style at neutral.
Then do all adjustments later in PS.
I only shot raw.
This works for me.

[William W]

. . . Canon 50D I can adjust the picture styles ie sharpness, saturation,contrast and colour tone. Is this advisable, or am I better off leaving it in neutral and adjusting as needs be post op. I shoot in raw and jpeg . . .

It depends for what purposes and specifically how you use the JPEG File.

1. Picture Styles affect the JPEG file, ergo: if you use the JPEG SOOC (Straight Out Of Camera) then setting predetermined Picture Styles is logical and useful to achieve the desired FINAL JPEG IMAGE FILE.

2. The JPEG File affects the HISTOGRAM and also the BLINKIES, ergo: if you place any degree of emphasis/relevance on the HISTOGRAM and the BLINKIES, and especially if you CHIMP EXPOSURE, then setting the Picture Styles to a known quantum (and keeping the settings constant) is logical and useful to achieve Exposure Consistency.

3. (Obviously), from point #2, Picture Styles also affect the IN CAMERA JPEG display, if you use that LCD Displayed Image or in camera review image, (for example on a tethered monitor), for any serious purpose, then setting predetermined Picture Styles is logical and useful to achieve the desired FINAL IN CAMERA DISPLAY/REVIEW IMAGE.

I use Canon DSLRs and I capture "raw + JPEG(L)". I use three preset Picture Styles for the first reason stated; but because there are only three Picture Styles which I use, consistently, I have more than a general idea of their effect on the Histogram and Blinkies, so, although I do not use those tools often, when I do use the Histogram and Blinkies (mainly the latter) I have do achieve an high degree of accuracy.

Beware that "Picture Styles" do not necessarily have consistency of affect, between different Canon Camera Models.

WW

[NorthernFocus]

Bill pretty well summed it up. Simply put:

- If you shoot JPEG it is advisable to make in camera adjustments to get as close as possible to a final image SOOC. Also when doing so previewing on camera display is WYSIWYG.

- When shooting RAW it is useful to shoot with neutral settings so that the preview gives a histogram most representative of the RAW file

[Mike Buckley]

This thread is helpful to people using cameras made by all manfuacturers, not just Canon.

One of the details you mentioned is about sharpening. My method is to set the sharpening to a very high value (possibly the highest, as I don't remember). That's because a high setting is helpful when I examine the image highly magnified in the camera's LCD to determine if the photo is sharp and if the depth of field is as I want it. If not, I retake the shot.

This works for me because I shoot only raw files (see below). When I post-process an image, my first step is to eliminate all sharpening that had been applied at the time of capture. My second step is to use a more reasonable sharpening setting.

If I was shooting raw+JPEG as you are and if I was planning on displaying the JPEG image, it's likely that such a high sharpening setting that would be baked in to the JPEG and impossible to remove would be too high.

[Pippan]

That's a really good idea, Mike, I'd never thought of it. I only ever use the display to check exposure but sharpness shouldn't affect the histogram or blinkies. Something new to try! Thanks.

[Mike Buckley]

sharpness shouldn't affect the histogram or blinkies.

Sharpening actually does affect the histogram and blinkies, especially if over sharpening creates some bright areas such as halos, but the affect won't be so much that it would cause you to change the exposure in error. To put that in context, I can't think of any setting that affects the image that doesn't change the histogram and blinkies at least ever so slightly.

[NorthernFocus]

...My method is to set the sharpening to a very high value ... to determine if the photo is sharp ...

Interestingly my method is the exact opposite. I set in camera sharpening to zero in order to best evaluate the inherent sharpness of the image.

When I post-process an image, my first step is to eliminate all sharpening that had been applied at the time of capture...

This step only applies to software which can read the camera setting in the RAW file. I can't speak to Canon but in the case of Nikon only their own software can do that. With LR/ACR the only setting that is retained in the RAW conversion is WB. The initial conversion is akin to having all in-camera processing set to zero(assuming default setting in LR/ACR are all set to zero).

Sharpness actually does affect the histogram and blinkies...

Well, not exactly.

... if over sharpening creates some bright areas such as halos...

Yes, precisely. SHARPENING can create hot spots, not inherent SHARPNESS.

[Mike Buckley]

Thanks for catching that, Dan. I changed sharpness to sharpening in my post.

[Black Pearl]

On a Fuji camera they're called Film Simulations and I use them all the time - either for producing JPEG's from the camera or for applying to RAF files in Lightroom. Some Fuji users swear by them and never shoot raw, I tend to be a little more flexible and switch between them and a flat Adobe profile.

[DanK]

I always keep mine set to faithful or neutral because a reasonably accurate histogram is IMHO the single most important technical information one can get from the LCD.

My method is to set the sharpening to a very high value (possibly the highest, as I don't remember). That's because a high setting is helpful when I examine the image highly magnified in the camera's LCD to determine if the photo is sharp and if the depth of field is as I want it.

I've never done this, and it doesn't seem like a good idea to me. Sharpening will increase the appearance of sharpness on the lcd. It seems to me that this can only serve to mask a lack of sharpness in the actual capture. Instead, I simply magnify the image a great deal to see whether what I want sharp is sharp.

[Mike Buckley]

Sharpening will increase the appearance of sharpness on the lcd. It seems to me that this can only serve to mask a lack of sharpness in the actual capture.

My experience is that a highly sharpened area that truly is not sharp will display artifacts, providing the clue that that part of the image really isn't sharp even if you think it is. Depending on the situation, it also makes the noise more visible that accompanies an area that is out of focus. I find this true whether using Live View before the image is captured or viewing the image after it is captured.

[William W]

Mike -

My experience is that a highly sharpened area that truly is not sharp will display artifacts, providing the clue that that part of the image really isn't sharp even if you think it is. . . I find this true whether using Live View before the image is captured or viewing the image after it is captured.

That's a question I thought of last night before I retired. I rarely use "Live View" and I am ignorant of its nuances.

I put on my 'to do' list to test if "Picture Styles" adjustments affect the "Live View" Image.

From what you have written I understand the answer is 'yes'.

For clarity can you please confirm my understanding and also what cameras do you use?

Thanks,

Bill

[Mike Buckley]

Bill,

Now that you mention the situation pertaining to Live View, I realize that I actually don't know whether the Picture Styles affect it; I have always assumed Live View is affected at least by some method of emulation.

I use Nikon cameras exclusively and I only use Live View when the camera is on a tripod. So, the only two cameras I've used recently and regularly on a tripod are the Nikon D5100 and the Nikon D7000. I'll try to make a clear determination about this and report back to you.

[William W]

Mike,

Thanks for the quick response. I am up to my armpits in work - so I will have to wait for the weekend to test my Canon 5DMkII. But by then someone else might have the answer for Canon gear.

[Mike Buckley]

Bill (and everyone),

The information in this post pertains to the Nikon D7000 camera, my most advanced camera but a rather old model that is no longer being made. I couldn't find anything in the manual that documents whether the effect of settings in Picture Controls (Nikon's term) are displayed in Live View.

When I change Picture Controls to the Monochrome setting, that is displayed in Live View.

I wasn't willing to settle for something so obvious, thinking that perhaps that particular setting might be one of few settings displayed in Live View. So, I also conducted my test using the Standard Picture Controls (a full-color setting) at the maximum and minimum sharpening configurations. When using a tripod and comparing the exact same scene at the maximum magnification in Live View, it was very easy to see that the sharpening settings are very definitely being applied to the Live View display.

I didn't do any further testing, as the primary reason Bill and I got into this discussion had to do with the sharpening setting. Until I learn otherwise, I am going to assume that all of the various configurations of Nikon Picture Controls settings are displayed in Live View.

Hope this helps!

By the way, I also learned while conducting the test that my Picture Controls setting with regard to the sharpening configuration is set to a value of 7. The value of 9 is the most sharpening, zero is the least sharpening and 3 is the default sharpening setting. It was in 2008 when I was using an even older camera model that I determined that 7 is the value that meets my needs the most. Unfortunately, I don't remember why or how I came to that decision.

[William W]

Thanks.