Portrait of my father

[bedantabd]

I wanted to make a portrait of my father who retired as a lecturer of the Assamese (my mother tongue) literature. I ended up with this image made at his study room. I used natural lights (evening lights coming through the window) along with this old pattern lamp that my grandfather gifted to my mom on her wedding. Would like to get honest feedback (C&C) from the members on the set-up/lighting/pose/processing/setting, etc. and suggestions for improvement. Thanks in advance.

[Donald]

I would like to hear, in the first instance, Bendanta, what is your own opinion of the portrait? What do you think are its strengths and any weaknesses?

[Geoff F]

Just one tiny point for me; quite literally. The tip of his nose. Everything else looks good.

Very tricky scene to photograph.

[Shadowman]

Nicely captured, would love to see more detail in the shadows; mainly the hands.

[Cogito]

I think you've done your father proud. But I agree with John and maybe a low powered flash would provide a little more detail to the black in the foreground.

[Cantab]

Bedanta, my initial reaction was that this is a very good portrait. Having subsequently read some of the comments that have appeared below, I agree with Geoff's comment about the shiny tip of your father's nose.

Donald raises a very good point. Much depends on the mood or image you were hoping to create -- and only you know what that was. But as an outside viewer, I think you've managed to convey a very specific impression of your father.

[rpcrowe]

I personally like this portrait very much. Sure, I'd like to see a bit more detail in the arm (I could not achieve this) and to open the shadows behind your father a bit (possible using NIK Viveza shadow slider) but, this is the type of portrait that transcends minor technicalities. I am sure that you will be able to keep it to remember your dad long after he has departed.

[IzzieK]

I like this shot very much. I think you did justice to your father with this shot. I agree with John about the tip of the nose. There is one thing I do not understand is that the shadow of the lamp -- why is it blue? I see it as a shadow but it is blue when the tablecloth is not really blue? Just a thought...

[bedantabd]

I would like to hear, in the first instance, Bendanta, what is your own opinion of the portrait? What do you think are its strengths and any weaknesses?

Hi Donald, I was expecting this question from someone! Believe me, I had asked this question to myself but could not get a satisfactory answer. That's why I wanted to have some opinions from the experts and there is no better place than this forum to get an honest feedback on my work. For long I have been trying to make images of my parents that I would proudly hang on my wall. Does this qualify for the same? If not, what are the improvements you guys would suggest?

I am happy that most of the people liked the portrait but obviously it's not an WOW portrait! Hope someday I will be able to make it happen.

[bedantabd]

Everyone raised the same question: the shiny tip of the nose! Will definitely remove it.

[Manfred M]

Bedanta - Photography is all about how the light interacts with your subject and we usually look at two or three aspects of the light; the quality of the light, the direction of the light and the colour temperature of the light (which impacts the white balance)

You have chosen to shoot with a single, small light source - a lantern. A small light source produces a very harsh light with hard shadows. This is what I am referring to when I mentioned the quality of the light.

Not only that, but you have positioned the light in such a way that much of the subject matter facing the camera is partially in front of it. The book cover, the side of your father's head and his arm get virtually no light falling on it and his head fades right into the background; this is not desirable in portraiture.. This is what I referred to when I mentioned the direction of the light.

Finally, I suspect that there is an issue with the white balance. I'm fairly certain that your father unlikely has orange skin. The problem with light sources like candles and lanterns is that they emit a colour temperature light that is outside of the operating range of a camera's automatic white balance (AWB) capabilities.

Now that the picture has been taken, there are significant limits as to what you can do with it. If you were to retake the shot, you might wish to consider adding some additional illumination that is at a lower intensity than your primary light source to ensure that your father's head and arm are not quite as dark. This is something that is frequently used in photography and is referred to as a fill light. The trick her is to not overpower your main light, yet push in enough light to illuminate the problem areas. This won't be easy due to the low intensity main light that is being used and trying to get close to that colour temperature.

[William W]

... For long I have been trying to make images of my parents that I would proudly hang on my wall. . . obviously it's not an WOW portrait! Hope someday I will be able to make it happen.

This is a Portrait of your Father "doing"; much of the Viewer's attention and energy is absorbed by the action element of the image.

Perhaps the illusive Portrait that a Daughter seeks to hang on her wall requires more direct connectivity from Subject to Viewer, rather than the Viewer being a passive observer?

WW

[Cantab]

This is a Portrait of your Father "doing"; much of the Viewer's attention and energy is absorbed by the action element of the image.

.....

WW

Bedantabd, Bill has put into words what attracted me in this photo.

Even though your father is sitting and not moving, it is very much an action shot. It portrays your father doing what he probably spent many years of his working life doing: working as a scholar.

[Cogito]

..... If not, what are the improvements you guys would suggest?

Bedanta, I stick with my original comment that you did your father proud! But I spent a little time editing the image - believe me, I am rubbish at PP - and came up with this. If it's not accurate in any way please say so and I will delete the image. It also depends, as Donald asked, as to what you want to impart?

[Dave Humphries]

Hi Bedanta,

Would like to get honest feedback (C&C) from the members on the set-up/lighting/pose/processing/setting, etc. and suggestions for improvement.

I am no expert, but I am trying to learn the skills and my thoughts and suggestions are as follows...

They are written in the context that this is deliberately a shot of your father reading a book in his study - so the setting works for me.
It is twilight outside, so what very little light there is in the room apart from the lamp is going to be blue (a much cooler colour temp than the lamp light).

His pose looks a little uncomfortable, I don't think I'd read with my right arm held like that for any length of time, but (to me) the books style suggests a longer read.

Agree the nose highlight needs toning down in post processing (PP).

Yes the light source is hard, but we can see what it is, so I can live with the hard quality of light, also the direction.

If it was shot RAW, you may be able to effect a less orange WB in post processing, but that will make the blue in the lamp's shadows even stronger, unless you decrease the midtone/shadow blues in PP.

If I were shooting this scene again, I would try a large* piece of white card/foam core board, which I'd position to camera left, between the camera and bookshelf, passing your father's right elbow, keeping it just out of shot (it will need to be close). This should fill the shadows with reflected lamp light, giving a bit of detail in the unlit side and aiding separation from the background.

* at least 1.2m (4 feet) square, lifted somewhat off the floor, so it extends from above his head to below his elbow, and adjust angle for effect (not easy if you and he are working alone). You may also need to be careful that the angle of the glass in the book case door doesn't let us see this though. It will (unavoidably) be visible in the lamp glass though, so keep an eye on that in case it looks too unnatural in the environment. Maybe my idea won't be practical - I don't have the experience to say.

Talking of what's visible reflected in the lamp and glass; I might clone and/or dodge/burn to give more 'narrative' to the blue light source, but also remove any unhelpful bright blue spots.

Can I ask if the moon was actually visible out the window?
There seems to be a bright blue spot to the window light, as seen in the lamp glass.


My thinking in using a reflector rather than fill flash (or another light source) is that it should give the correct ratio without overpowering the main light and also be the same colour temperature without recourse to gels (albeit they're simple to deploy with flash).

Hope that helps you as much as it has me in thinking through how to resolve the issues presented by the scene and also what I wouldn't change - e.g. I think the framing/composition is very good, in fact as an environmental portrait, I'd say you're 80% there already, but the last 20% makes a lot of difference.

Of course, another way to deal with different WB light sources is to process to B&W, but that would lose something of the appeal in this case. I think some locally applied PP could improve the shot, but filling the shadows more when taking the shot is preferable.

All the best, Dave


PS for Izzie

There is one thing I do not understand is that the shadow of the lamp -- why is it blue? I see it as a shadow but it is blue when the tablecloth is not really blue?

The lamp is a warm colour temp and the camera's white balance (WB) is closer to this than the remaining ambient evening light coming through the window and flooding the room. So, especially where the lamp light is not, e.g. directly below it, the (probably) white table cover will pick up that blue cast - the fact that there are two vastly different WB sources being seen adjacent to each other (in the light/shadow patterns) makes this more obvious.

[mugge]

Bedanta, I do like what you are doing. I would like a bit more light on your father's right arm and also on his hands. Yes the shiny has to go. I think the pose is right, the white balance is not. All that can be fixed. Do persevere as I think you'll do a good job of it.
Cheers Ole

[bedantabd]

This is a Portrait of your Father "doing"; much of the Viewer's attention and energy is absorbed by the action element of the image.

Perhaps the illusive Portrait that a Daughter seeks to hang on her wall requires more direct connectivity from Subject to Viewer, rather than the Viewer being a passive observer?

WW

Thanks Bill. Yes, this is one of the things I was particularly not happy with the image: eye contact. (The other thing being his slightly uncomfortable pose, which Dave had mentioned in his reply). But I was not sure that it would impact the "direct connectivity from Subject to Viewer". Now that you have cleared my doubts, I will try to correct this in my retake.

And for your kind information, it is not a daughter seeking to make the illusive portrait of her father: I am his son!

[bedantabd]

Hi Bedanta,



I am no expert, but I am trying to learn the skills and my thoughts and suggestions are as follows...

They are written in the context that this is deliberately a shot of your father reading a book in his study - so the setting works for me.
It is twilight outside, so what very little light there is in the room apart from the lamp is going to be blue (a much cooler colour temp than the lamp light).

His pose looks a little uncomfortable, I don't think I'd read with my right arm held like that for any length of time, but (to me) the books style suggests a longer read.

Agree the nose highlight needs toning down in post processing (PP).

Yes the light source is hard, but we can see what it is, so I can live with the hard quality of light, also the direction.

If it was shot RAW, you may be able to effect a less orange WB in post processing, but that will make the blue in the lamp's shadows even stronger, unless you decrease the midtone/shadow blues in PP.

If I were shooting this scene again, I would try a large* piece of white card/foam core board, which I'd position to camera left, between the camera and bookshelf, passing your father's right elbow, keeping it just out of shot (it will need to be close). This should fill the shadows with reflected lamp light, giving a bit of detail in the unlit side and aiding separation from the background.

* at least 1.2m (4 feet) square, lifted somewhat off the floor, so it extends from above his head to below his elbow, and adjust angle for effect (not easy if you and he are working alone). You may also need to be careful that the angle of the glass in the book case door doesn't let us see this though. It will (unavoidably) be visible in the lamp glass though, so keep an eye on that in case it looks too unnatural in the environment. Maybe my idea won't be practical - I don't have the experience to say.

Talking of what's visible reflected in the lamp and glass; I might clone and/or dodge/burn to give more 'narrative' to the blue light source, but also remove any unhelpful bright blue spots.

Can I ask if the moon was actually visible out the window?
There seems to be a bright blue spot to the window light, as seen in the lamp glass.


My thinking in using a reflector rather than fill flash (or another light source) is that it should give the correct ratio without overpowering the main light and also be the same colour temperature without recourse to gels (albeit they're simple to deploy with flash).

Hope that helps you as much as it has me in thinking through how to resolve the issues presented by the scene and also what I wouldn't change - e.g. I think the framing/composition is very good, in fact as an environmental portrait, I'd say you're 80% there already, but the last 20% makes a lot of difference.

Of course, another way to deal with different WB light sources is to process to B&W, but that would lose something of the appeal in this case. I think some locally applied PP could improve the shot, but filling the shadows more when taking the shot is preferable.

All the best, Dave


PS for Izzie



The lamp is a warm colour temp and the camera's white balance (WB) is closer to this than the remaining ambient evening light coming through the window and flooding the room. So, especially where the lamp light is not, e.g. directly below it, the (probably) white table cover will pick up that blue cast - the fact that there are two vastly different WB sources being seen adjacent to each other (in the light/shadow patterns) makes this more obvious.

Thanks a lot Dave, for the elaborate reply for getting that last 20% correct. Will definitely try your suggestions of providing some fill lights for the shadows and will also try to make his pose a more comfortable one.

[bedantabd]

Bedanta - Photography is all about how the light interacts with your subject and we usually look at two or three aspects of the light; the quality of the light, the direction of the light and the colour temperature of the light (which impacts the white balance)

You have chosen to shoot with a single, small light source - a lantern. A small light source produces a very harsh light with hard shadows. This is what I am referring to when I mentioned the quality of the light.

Not only that, but you have positioned the light in such a way that much of the subject matter facing the camera is partially in front of it. The book cover, the side of your father's head and his arm get virtually no light falling on it and his head fades right into the background; this is not desirable in portraiture.. This is what I referred to when I mentioned the direction of the light.

Finally, I suspect that there is an issue with the white balance. I'm fairly certain that your father unlikely has orange skin. The problem with light sources like candles and lanterns is that they emit a colour temperature light that is outside of the operating range of a camera's automatic white balance (AWB) capabilities.

Now that the picture has been taken, there are significant limits as to what you can do with it. If you were to retake the shot, you might wish to consider adding some additional illumination that is at a lower intensity than your primary light source to ensure that your father's head and arm are not quite as dark. This is something that is frequently used in photography and is referred to as a fill light. The trick her is to not overpower your main light, yet push in enough light to illuminate the problem areas. This won't be easy due to the low intensity main light that is being used and trying to get close to that colour temperature.

Thanks Manfred. So I got it all wrong: the quality/direction/color temperature of the light! I will not be able to modify the direction of the light as I am going to use the same lantern at the same location as the primary source of light for recreating the scene. But will definitely try to get some fill lights and correct the WB.

[bedantabd]

Bedantabd, Bill has put into words what attracted me in this photo.

Even though your father is sitting and not moving, it is very much an action shot. It portrays your father doing what he probably spent many years of his working life doing: working as a scholar.

Bruce, that was exactly what I thought while making the image: to portray him as a scholar. But now to get that connectivity with the viewers, as pointed out by Bill, I can simply ask him to look into the camera in the same pose (or a more relaxed pose while still holding the book). Hope I will be able to make you and Bill both (two different groups of viewers) happy.