Getting a new Mac - where should I put my money?

[purplehaze]

More or less got confirmation this week that I am getting replacement value for the computer equipment I lost, i.e. $4000 CAD. Am tied to Mac, but as the new iPad Pro is meeting my mobile needs quite nicely, I am pretty much decided on replacing the 15" MacBook Pro and 27-inch Cinema Display combo with the 27-in iMac.

MacBook Pro I lost had a 2.5 GHz processor, 16 GB RAM, and 512 GB storage. Should I max out processor speed and go with a Fusion drive and have money left over for another external drive? Or should I go for flash over Fusion, which costs big bucks and may require me to cut back on processor speed and RAM?

The package I was looking at with the saleswoman today included 4.0 GHZ Intel Core i7, AMD Radeon R9 M390 with 2 GB video memory, 32 GB 1867 MHz DDR3 SDRAM, 1 TB Fusion Drive. I don't play games, but had just started shooting video and think I would like to get into it. I also want to be able to run heavy stacking tasks, likely with Helicon Focus.

I currently have a 1 TB Time Machine for daily backup and a 2 TB external drive where I keep all but the current year's libraries of photos and miscellaneous reference material and videos. I recognize I need a second external for the older libraries.

Would be most grateful for your guidance. I actually know how to write a bit of computer code, but am lost when it comes to the hardware stuff.

[billtils]

Janis

You probably are not aware of this but I went through a similar "what to do about moving on from the MBP" and at the last minute changed tack from where it looked to be going and went iMac but chose a 1TB SSD. To protect myself against loss of warranty and loss of cash (lunatic Apple prices) I am running a Crucial SSD in an external USB3 enclosure for now but will switch it on board when the first year is up.

[purplehaze]

No, wasn't aware, Bill; that's very interesting. Can you point me to that thread?

[Tronhard]

Hi Janis:

When looking at computer performance you are balancing investment in three things: Processor speed (including number of processors), RAM and drive performance. If you intent is to fairly intensive image manipulation the first thing I would do is to max out the system memory. Very often manufacturers fill the slots with whatever RAM you purchase, so if you want to upgrade you have to toss away the RAM you have and get what you want from scratch - it's a bi of a rip-off. I would endeavour to make sure that your graphics display memory is not shared with processor memory, in other words the graphics have a decent amount of custom cache - not I believe an issue with Macs but a good point to note.

The second thing for me is to look at how much read/write activity your programs will be performing. Disc have generally been seen as the slowest devices in processing data (well, apart from us that is...)There are two aspects to how they impact on system performance: fetching instructions from the program files to execute commands, and read/write activities to either load the data files, or to create cached data - this is especially significant when your programs are accumulating a lot of undo options, because undo pointes of the various stages are normally written to cache on disc. By maxing our your RAM you get immediate benefits in terms of less read/write activities.

Discs hard wired into your system bus will generally perform faster than those of equal spec connected externally. I would recommend checking the relative speeds of a built-in Solid State Drive (SSD) against the alternatives - whether disc-based or externally located. IF your computer was a portable I would always recommend a SSD because a conventional disc-based system is far less resilient, slower, use more energy and generates more heat. Since you are looking at a non-portable device this is less of an issue.

Over years of doing a lot of hardware upgrades, the biggest bang for the buck was usually an increase in RAM and a faster disc drive (for intense R/W). Absolutely get the fastest processor array you can afford but don't forget the importance of the items I have mentioned.

[purplehaze]

Thanks Trev, that's helpful. I have been doing some reading and am somewhat flummoxed to understand why the saleswoman didn't warn me about the fact that the 1 TB Fusion drives in the latest models apparently only have 24 GB flash as opposed to the 128 GB in the 2 and 3 TB drives, and so make less than optimum use of the 32 GB RAM she was recommending. (See here.) The article is from October, yet I cannot find this corroborated aywhere on the Apple site. The hard drive/flash split does not currently appear to be specified for any of the Fusion drives. Grrr. I am leaning back towards to the all-flash option again.

Edit: I was wrong; the info is there on the tech specs page, at the "how much storage is right for you" link.

[Manfred M]

Janis - the specs I would look at for video processing are going to be a lot different than what you would look at for image processing (i.e. Photoshop). I do video editing, so I built my machine with that in mind.

Modern video editing software is multi-threaded so a machine having an i7 processor with 4 cores and 8 threads (each core has two virtual processors) is really important as it massively speeds up rendering. A faster processor is definitely an advantage here, much more so than in image editing work, so the 4 GHz i7 CPU makes a lot of sense. So does 32GB of RAM.

The same goes for a video card as the software uses the graphics card for the on screen rendering as you do your edits. I personally would not go for a video card with less than 4 GHz of fast ram (DDR 5), but you should be okay with what you are getting. The AMD video card is good as it does deliver 10-bit performance; nVidia ones have crippled drivers that force you to go with their very expensive workstation line. However, give the screen the Apple has chosen to go with, that is neither here nor there as you are stuck with an 8-bit screen.

My biggest beef with the iMac screen is that whole they are 4K or 5K Retina, but they are only sRGB compliant. To me that is a show stopper as I have been using AdobeRGB compliant screens for about the past 8 or 9 years and colour performance is far more important than resolution. This is the one reason I would not go with any Mac other than a MacPro as they do have a workstation graphics card on board and one can attach a decent screen to that. Unfortunately, the prices are out of this world for that particular computer series.

I recently upgraded my own machine to a 1 TB SSD and from a performance standpoint it really makes a huge difference. I would not go with a mechanical main drive at all. Okay as a storage drive only.

The bottom line is the machine you are looking at getting will get the job done for you in both the still photography and video processing world. The main issue I continue to have with Apple is their obsession with resolution rather than going with something more meaningful to photographers; a high quality AdobeRGB compliant screen.

[purplehaze]

Thanks, Manfred. Yes, I have some reservations about the display, but just can't stomach the cost of a new laptop so soon after the last one, and on top of the cost of the iPad, to boot. I am now thinking I should start with the 16 GB RAM and 512 GB SSD I had in the MBP and go from there, given that I can add cheaper RAM as I need it.

[Tronhard]

Just make sure they don't fill all the RAM slots up with the 16GB!

[purplehaze]

Yes, almost got caught by that one in the past, but they are supposed to be 2 8s with two empty slots.

[Manfred M]

Thanks, Manfred. Yes, I have some reservations about the display, but just can't stomach the cost of a new laptop so soon after the last one, and on top of the cost of the iPad, to boot. I am now thinking I should start with the 16 GB RAM and 512 GB SSD I had in the MBP and go from there, given that I can add cheaper RAM as I need it.

Laptops are not an ideal editing tool, given the limitations of their screens and the relatively low amount of RAM and processing power. These devices are primarily designed for low weight and long battery life, which makes sense if you are on the road. If you leave your computer in one place, a desktop is a far more powerful solution for the money.

[billtils]

The hard drive/flash split does not currently appear to be specified for any of the Fusion drives. Grrr. I am leaning back towards to the all-flash option again.

Edit: I was wrong; the info is there on the tech specs page, at the "how much storage is right for you" link.

Yes it is there Janis, but (a) hardly in a place where it leaps off the page and (b) makes you wonder why they bother. Go SSD - Trev is correct re inboard -v- outboard location but going external was very much a temporary thing in my case to get value for money without breaking the conditions of the warranty. If I get to 6 months with no glitches, it's going to go inboard (but having said that, the iMac with the external SSD outperforms my MBP with its internal one, but of course there are other differences). Living in Canada, you could source something from OWC - I got all my replacement/upgrade parts from them when we were still commuting between the US and UK.

The thread is here. As you can see from the current thread, the SSD was downgrade from 2 to 1GB as part of the decision to go the iMac route.

EDIT: Janis, really good advice from Robin! The only part I'm not sure about is it only taking 2 minutes to fit the extra RAM, and indeed whether this is a simple DIY option any more given the way that the units are assembled. Also if you do anything that involves non-Apple components your warranty is bust (or so the local Apple authorised repair shop told me).

[Black Pearl]

I upgraded my iMac back end of last year to the 5k 27" model you are looking at. I asked here and other forums and talked to the staff at Apple getting excellent advice everywhere.

The SSD is an absolute must - I went with the 512GB as it offers enough space for all the day-to-day clutter without the eye watering cost of the 1TB option. The Fusion Drives sound nice but you have no control over what goes on the SSD part so you can't be guaranteed you're getting the benefit. I have my LR Library on the SSD and do my initial import to it. This way I'm getting maximum performance when I do all the heavy lifting. Once I've finished with a set of images I'll shift them across to a fast (ish) external drive for longer tern storage. I've speed tested the drive in mine at just under 2000MB/s read and over 1400MB/s write which you could happily describe as more than ample

Personally I feel the i7 is well worth the money over the i5 that comes as standard. You may not feel it every day but that extra grunt does make the system hum along nicely and you can tell all those cores are at play when exporting large numbers of files or rendering video.

From all the advice I didn't pay extra for the 4GB GPU over the 2GB card but I would recommend the higher of the three iMac options as a starting point because the lower ones have more basic cards in them.

RAM - order your iMac with the basic 8GB Apple supply then buy more from a big seller - I used Crucial. It is unbelievably less expensive and takes 2 minutes to fit. A good start would be an extra 16GB to give you 24 total - Apple say. this configuration is fine. f you need more you can run it right up to 64GB even though the listed max is 32.

[purplehaze]

Thanks, Bill and Robin. I found your thread shortly after starting this one, Robin, and it has helped shape my thinking. It does look easy to replace the RAM, but like Bill, I don't want to void the warranty. I have read of people taking their own RAM into the Apple Store and getting the Apple technicians to replace it. Do you think one could do that within the first year--or first week, even?

[Manfred M]

Thanks, Bill and Robin. I found your thread shortly after starting this one, Robin, and it has helped shape my thinking. It does look easy to replace the RAM, but like Bill, I don't want to void the warranty. I have read of people taking their own RAM into the Apple Store and getting the Apple technicians to replace it. Do you think one could do that within the first year--or first week, even?

You might want to see how it works with less memory and not worry about voiding the warranty. If you run short of process memory, the computer will "swap" out software that is not running to the disk drive. If you happen to have a SSD, which is quite fast, you might not even notice any issue. If you do fairly basic edits, this might be more than good enough for you.

Where I run into issues is that I do huge panoramas or complex edits with a dozen or more layers, and that is where you can run into memory issues, especially if you have other programs open. I just spent the past 2 months doing my edits on a laptop with 8GB of RAM and a SSD. My desktop with 32GB of RAM (and a newer, faster i7 CPU) does run faster, but not appreciably so. Prior to upgrading the laptop to a SSD, I took a major performance hit.

Try it first before you void your warranty and you can always add memory later on, as others have suggested. By the time the warranty period has expired, perhaps the 16GB (4* 16 = 64GB) memory sticks will have come down from the current astronomical prices.

[purplehaze]

I dunno; I was feeling the limits of the 8 GB in my 2009 MBP, which is why I went to 16 in the 2015 model...

[Tronhard]

A major question to me is what kinds of software and files are you handling? If you were doing ok with an older system with less RAM then, as Manfred suggested, you can save money by having say 16GB (as compared to your previous 8GB?) so you can afford the other stuff that is harder to upgrade like larger drives with more cache. If you can afford it an internal SSD is the way to go.

Adding RAM is very straightforward, so you could do an upgrade later if need be. I have upgraded hundreds of computers and not killed one yet. What you need to do is, once the device is disconnected from the power, ground yourself to the computer's metal chassis (you can pick up a grounding strap off the web for peanuts), don't let your clothing brush the RAM or slots, and always leave the RAM on its silver packaging until you put it into the slots.

If you are really concerned about warranty then follow Manfred's advice and do the upgrade once the warranty has expired.

[Black Pearl]

Thanks, Bill and Robin. I found your thread shortly after starting this one, Robin, and it has helped shape my thinking. It does look easy to replace the RAM, but like Bill, I don't want to void the warranty. I have read of people taking their own RAM into the Apple Store and getting the Apple technicians to replace it. Do you think one could do that within the first year--or first week, even?

Ask one of the staff at the Apple Store and they will (quietly) tell you to buy RAM from a third party and fit it yourself. It won't void any warranty as Apple have specifically designed the 27" iMac to allow user access - there is a button on the back that pops the door open and you then just push in the sticks of RAM.

[Black Pearl]

A major question to me is what kinds of software and files are you handling? If you were doing ok with an older system with less RAM then, as Manfred suggested, you can save money by having say 16GB (as compared to your previous 8GB?) so you can afford the other stuff that is harder to upgrade like larger drives with more cache. If you can afford it an internal SSD is the way to go.

Adding RAM is very straightforward, so you could do an upgrade later if need be. I have upgraded hundreds of computers and not killed one yet. What you need to do is, once the device is disconnected from the power, ground yourself to the computer's metal chassis (you can pick up a grounding strap off the web for peanuts), don't let your clothing brush the RAM or slots, and always leave the RAM on its silver packaging until you put it into the slots.

If you are really concerned about warranty then follow Manfred's advice and do the upgrade once the warranty has expired.

You don't open an iMac exposing chassis etc to add/swap RAM. There is a door on the back that opens with a push-button and the slots are there ready and waiting.

Apple's website even has a page showing you how to do this - https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT201191

[Mike Buckley]

All this very helpful discussion about the ease of user-installed RAM modules reminds me of when I thought it would be that easy for me when I bought my most recent desktop computer. I struggled and struggled trying to get the first module into the chassis, pushing until I feared breaking something. I even tapped the module with a lightweight hammer, being careful not to use too much force. I'm not mechanically minded and I've got next to no manual dexterity, so I was very proud of myself that it only took 20 minutes to figure out that something was very wrong. That was when I went into the specs of the computer and looked up the exact specs of the RAM modules required to fit the chassis. I discovered that the company that had sold me the computer and the RAM modules to fit it had sold me the wrong modules.

Naturally, the manager's response was, "Oh, just bring them back in and we'll give you the correct modules. But they'll be more expensive." That's when I politely but firmly explained that he was going to overnight the correct modules to me at no extra charge for the modules themselves and at no shipping charge as a goodwill gesture for the inconvenience his staff had caused me. He readily agreed and, like Robin has mentioned, it took only two minutes to complete that part of the project.

[Tronhard]

I know that Robin, I'm a certified A+ computer technician and engineer.

My point is that to prevent static discharge onto the RAM modules you need to connect yourself to the metal of the chassis. You can damage a memory chip by having a static charge on your clothing (e.g. from walking across carpet) and when you touch the chip it acts as a conduit for the energy, damaging the chip. That is also a reason you will not see a technician near a computer with a tie dangling. So to avoid such electrostatic discharge (which you won't see or feel) you have to connect yourself to the frame of the computer so that there is no electrical differential. That is what an antistatic wrist strap is for. At the very LEAST you need to ground yourself to the device by touching a metal component on the computer each time you move away.

This simple article makes my point: https://www.howtogeek.com/169994/how...working-on-it/

Apart from avoiding damage to the computer (which may not show up right away), it also means that you are not necessarily voiding warranty if that is permitted by the supplier. If they give you instructions to replace the chips yourself that may well provide an authority to do the upgrade, but you would be very unwise to do it without the precautions I mentioned because ESD is easy for them to check and if it has happened your warranty is immediately void.

You don't open an iMac exposing chassis etc to add/swap RAM. There is a door on the back that opens with a push-button and the slots are there ready and waiting.

Apple's website even has a page showing you how to do this - https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT201191