Inferior Images

[Tronhard]

I listened to an "experienced photographer" tell someone CONSIDERING getting into wildlife photography the following:
“If you are serious about photography and you want great photos, you need to invest in great cameras. Look at professionals, you don’t see them with cheap gear”.
Because that's what they had, and with no questions asked about budget, this "experienced person" recommended a kit similar to the 7D MkII + Canon 100-400MkII + Expander 1.4MkIII - Cost about $5600 Can.. It goes without saying that the poor novice was totally intimidated and was prepared to give up right then.

While there may be some truth for VERY serious photographers, I consider that rather inappropriate for someone starting from scratch. In response to that experience I created a PowerPoint presentation called Inferior Images, using older or lower end camera bodies.

see: https://1drv.ms/f/s!AkpuvZN5i75GgksBQ1UyltERVntR - hopefully the music will play, and you have to give PowerPoint on line some time to generate the show. The images are not as high resolution as originally taken and seem to be a bit more degraded by the sharing process, but hopefully I make my point.

If you prefer to see the show in better resolution you can download it and run it on your machine, just remember to bring over the music track!

The first slide in the show requires you to click to get rid of the quote, then click again when the title Inferior Images Appears, that should start the show going with the first slide and all others changing about every 10 seconds thereafter. After the two clicks, just wait... it will move on.

This ties back to the thread on two approaches to bird photography. Since I had the gear and I am attending an orientation to newbie photographers, I decided to demonstrate value for money between a starter solution and the heavy duty one. Hopefully I can make my point - it worked for me!

[rpcrowe]

I agree with your Trev... I purchased the Canon SX50-HS at a little over $150.00 USD refurbished from Canon and my son-in-law paid just a bit more, new from Costco Discount Warehouse. This camera along with others, like your SX-60HS can, if handled correctly, can do a very good job on wildlife.
Getting into the right place or position is pretty important in wildlife photography. t least as important as the gear you are using.
However, the average person who buys an entry level DSLR, such as one of the Canon Rebels, purchases the camera along with the 18-55mm kit lens. Than lens is NOT going to get you good wildlife photos. It is also not going to get you good sports imagery.
Knowing what you can shoot and what you cannot shoot with your gear is a really important thing to know and consider.
Another thing to consider is what quality imagery you require or if you want/need quality imagery at all. Some people only care about a photograph as documentation of where they have been and what they have seen. I was shooting the results of a day of fishing on an Alaskan river with my 17-55mm f/2.8 IS lens when my son-in-law spotted a pair of bald eagles fishing down river. They were so far away that it was difficult to see them with the naked eye. My son-in-law asked me to shoot the birds and replied when I told him they were too far away that it didn't matter.
I shot the image, sent it to him and it is one of his favorite shots of the trip. He happily points out the two specks off in the distance and tells people that they are bald eagles fishing...

[paintingwithlight]

I listened to an "experienced photographer" tell someone CONSIDERING getting into wildlife photography the following:
“If you are serious about photography and you want great photos, you need to invest in great cameras. Look at professionals, you don’t see them with cheap gear”.

I see that a fair bit at camera shops too. It's too bad that there is no Mountain Equipment Co-Op equivalent for photography where a pro will sit down with an aspiring photographer, listen to their needs and wants and give them some fair, solid advice without upselling them. Oh, I guess that such photo shops might exist but I haven't seen one yet.

Michael

[Tronhard]

Hi Michael:

Did you, by any chance get the slide show link to work? I just wanted to make sure it actually does. I also found that it was MUCH better to download the PPS file and music because the resolution is WAY better that way.

[Tronhard]

Hi Richard:

I see this a lot (and not in the photographic area). People offering advice to someone based upon their own personal priorities, budget and expected outcomes rather than finding out what the person making the inquiry wants or needs. From my sales training I learnt the first thing I should do is ask a lot of questions - e.g. what is your purpose in taking images, what kind of output do you want (internet ready, hi-res display, small photos, large prints, competition stuff), what is your budget and finally what are your prepared to carry? THEN I try to figure out the solution for THEM, not for my situation.

I agree with your Trev... I purchased the Canon SX50-HS at a little over $150.00 USD refurbished from Canon and my son-in-law paid just a bit more, new from Costco Discount Warehouse. This camera along with others, like your SX-60HS can, if handled correctly, can do a very good job on wildlife.
Getting into the right place or position is pretty important in wildlife photography. t least as important as the gear you are using.
However, the average person who buys an entry level DSLR, such as one of the Canon Rebels, purchases the camera along with the 18-55mm kit lens. Than lens is NOT going to get you good wildlife photos. It is also not going to get you good sports imagery.
Knowing what you can shoot and what you cannot shoot with your gear is a really important thing to know and consider.
Another thing to consider is what quality imagery you require or if you want/need quality imagery at all. Some people only care about a photograph as documentation of where they have been and what they have seen. I was shooting the results of a day of fishing on an Alaskan river with my 17-55mm f/2.8 IS lens when my son-in-law spotted a pair of bald eagles fishing down river. They were so far away that it was difficult to see them with the naked eye. My son-in-law asked me to shoot the birds and replied when I told him they were too far away that it didn't matter.
I shot the image, sent it to him and it is one of his favorite shots of the trip. He happily points out the two specks off in the distance and tells people that they are bald eagles fishing...

[RandyRFJP]

Thanks for sharing the link to your PowerPoint presentation. I enjoyed viewing it and the great images it contained.

I believe that anyone starting out on an new endeavor, like photography, should never be dissuaded from following their interest by someone they reach out to for advice. Proficiency requires motivation, knowledge, skills, practical experience and the "tools" needed for one's endeavor. As a neophyte's proficiency increases, they may reach a point when they are limited by their "tools." Only then do they need worry about upgrading to the "latest and greatest" tools of their craft. The "experienced photographer" you mention, in my opinion, did a major disservice to the person who, unfortunately, asked him/her for advice.

[Tronhard]

Thanks for responding Randy - I'm glad it worked as this is my first try using this method Did the sound work too? knowing this will be useful if I share other stuff this way. I don't know if you looked at it on screen or downloaded it, but there is a major difference in quality.

Thanks for sharing the link to your PowerPoint presentation. I enjoyed viewing it and the great images it contained.

I believe that anyone starting out on an new endeavor, like photography, should never be dissuaded from following their interest by someone they reach out to for advice. Proficiency requires motivation, knowledge, skills, practical experience and the "tools" needed for one's endeavor. As a neophyte's proficiency increases, they may reach a point when they are limited by their "tools." Only then do they need worry about upgrading to the "latest and greatest" tools of their craft. The "experienced photographer" you mention, in my opinion, did a major disservice to the person who, unfortunately, asked him/her for advice.

[skitterbug]

Hi Trev ~ I know you asked Michael but I'll give you my experience with the slide show. I found it to be interesting. I'm on a imac so you know what platform I'm working from. Clicking the slideshow opened it in a new tab on Firefox. I clicked the "play slideshow" command at the top right and waited. Finally grew impatient and clicked in the center of the 1st slide, and that caused the second slide to appear. Another click on the second slide started the slide show to play, music included.

Then because I like to experiment, I decided to download to try it that way. Chose to open it with the default Archive utility.

It opened in Power Point as it should and I thought maybe when I clicked play slide show it would begin, but I found that I had to mouse click the 1st and then the 2nd slide to get it to play - music was automatic. Did you have these two slides set to pause or something so you could maybe offer information before the slideshow presentation started? BTW, the music is great!

Anyway, that is how it reacted for me. Maybe others will experience something different? Patience is a virtue though! <grin>

And I appreciate that older equipment can take decent pics if used properly especially since I have a Rebel T3i with the 18-55mm lens kit and fortunately the 55-250mm lens. It does okay depending on what I want to try and capture. Eventually, I do want to move to equipment that offers more bells, whistles and the ability to focus on distant objects. But I certainly don't feel that I would have benefited from that equipment from the get go. In fact, I had a Sony digital as my first camera and used it mostly for point and shoot. I really liked that camera but it had issues and started over exposing everything. Warranty was long past and I had a door stop. So I moved to Canon and I will move "up" eventually as I said.

And that's my story and I'm sticking to it, even though you didn't ask! <smile>

Thanks for your video!

[Tronhard]

Hi Sandy:

I addressed my question to Michael because he had responded, so I knew he had seen the show.

Interesting... Nope the slides were supposed to follow each other automatically. HOWEVER the first image of the breakwater was not 3 separate slides, it was 1 slide that, as you correctly observed required me to click on it a couple of times to let me set the scene with a bit of explanation. I will modify that if the next version for on-line viewing, thanks to your excellent feedback.

Hi Trev ~ I know you asked Michael but I'll give you my experience with the slide show. I found it to be interesting. I'm on a imac so you know what platform I'm working from. Clicking the slideshow opened it in a new tab on Firefox. I clicked the "play slideshow" command at the top right and waited. Finally grew impatient and clicked in the center of the 1st slide, and that caused the second slide to appear. Another click on the second slide started the slide show to play, music included.

Then because I like to experiment, I decided to download to try it that way. Chose to open it with the default Archive utility.

It opened in Power Point as it should and I thought maybe when I clicked play slide show it would begin, but I found that I had to mouse click the 1st and then the 2nd slide to get it to play - music was automatic. Did you have these two slides set to pause or something so you could maybe offer information before the slideshow presentation started? BTW, the music is great!

Anyway, that is how it reacted for me. Maybe others will experience something different? Patience is a virtue though! <grin>

And I appreciate that older equipment can take decent pics if used properly especially since I have a Rebel T3i with the 18-55mm lens kit and fortunately the 55-250mm lens. It does okay depending on what I want to try and capture. Eventually, I do want to move to equipment that offers more bells, whistles and the ability to focus on distant objects. But I certainly don't feel that I would have benefited from that equipment from the get go. In fact, I had a Sony digital as my first camera and used it mostly for point and shoot. I really liked that camera but it had issues and started over exposing everything. Warranty was long past and I had a door stop. So I moved to Canon and I will move "up" eventually as I said.

And that's my story and I'm sticking to it, even though you didn't ask! <smile>

Thanks for your video!

[RandyRFJP]

Thanks for responding Randy - I'm glad it worked as this is my first try using this method Did the sound work too? knowing this will be useful if I share other stuff this way. I don't know if you looked at it on screen or downloaded it, but there is a major difference in quality.

I didn't download the PowerPoint file. It played fine directly from the link. I also played the music track directly from the link. I'll download the presentation and watch it, too, but I was not at all disappointed with the quality of the images when I viewed them via the link. Your photos are always first rate.

Additional comment: I downloaded both files and both played in synch with each other flawlessly. You are correct that image quality was higher on the downloaded PowerPoint file, which is 44.7 MB in size.

[Rita]

Hi Trevor,

I had the exact same experience with it as Sandy, once it started on it's own it ran well. There were some nice images in there.

[paintingwithlight]

Hi Michael:

Did you, by any chance get the slide show link to work? I just wanted to make sure it actually does. I also found that it was MUCH better to download the PPS file and music because the resolution is WAY better that way.

I replied without watching the video since work has crazy firewalls. From home I am enjoying the slides and grooving to the tunes.

[Tronhard]

Thanks all for your responses. I have updated the original post to make the process of running the show a bit more lucid.

I hope, in the end, it makes my point...

[Cantab]

Trev, since I do a lot of my CiC viewing on an iPad, I decided to see how the slide show would work. An enjoyable set of images.

It took some encouragement to get started but then the slideshow ran smoothly (except slide 18 was a white blank). There was no music, although I was able to play the music file afterwards by clicking on it at the Onedrive website.

[Manfred M]

Trev - totally agree. A sophisticated, high end camera can be "too much camera" for someone who is a relatively inexperienced photographer and in my experience, the images produced often disappoint. These photographers probably would be far better off starting with a simpler camera (far fewer buttons and menu items to screw things up) and progress as their skills and desires to push the limits of their equipment and / or skill level.

[Tronhard]

Thanks Manfred:

Also there is the intimidation factor on the novice and the massive outlay to get such high end gear - that would intimidate anyone! The message that was delivered in my opinion was that this is a hobby for the well-heeled and deadly serious. To me that kills much of the joy of photography. I did that slide show at my camera club the following week and both parties were there. I hope I got my point across...

Trev - totally agree. A sophisticated, high end camera can be "too much camera" for someone who is a relatively inexperienced photographer and in my experience, the images produced often disappoint. These photographers probably would be far better off starting with a simpler camera (far fewer buttons and menu items to screw things up) and progress as their skills and desires to push the limits of their equipment and / or skill level.

[Tronhard]

Hi Bruce:

I am not sure how I-pads deal with PPS files linked to MP3 files, but if you ran it on the OneDrive site it should have worked. If you downloaded it to play from your device you needed to download both PPS and MP3 files to the same location before running the show.

Trev, since I do a lot of my CiC viewing on an iPad, I decided to see how the slide show would work. An enjoyable set of images.

It took some encouragement to get started but then the slideshow ran smoothly (except slide 18 was a white blank). There was no music, although I was able to play the music file afterwards by clicking on it at the Onedrive website.

[paintingwithlight]

The message that was delivered in my opinion was that this is a hobby for the well-heeled and deadly serious. To me that kills much of the joy of photography.

That is why I deleted my account on DPReview after three days.