Landscapes and such at UWA

[William W]

Donald’s thread here has prompted me to start this thread.

I recently bought a Samyang 14mm F/2.8. (I have Canon gear).

Previously, for my 135 Format kit I only had a UWA to FL = 16mm (16 to 35/2.8). I do have two Fisheye Lenses and I can and do utilize a de-fish Post Production Programme, but that is not nearly the same a being on site and Composing the Original Image with an UWA Lens.

I think l that I am in reasonably good control at FL = 16mm as I have had that lens for a long time and I use it often and I have made a strong list of quality mistakes.

Move to FL = 14mm and that is a different ballgame.

One of the reasons that prompted me to start this thread was Donald’s comments about taking time (or extra time) because of using an UWA Lens. An interesting and associated reason why I bought the Samyang 14mm is because it is a Manual Focus and also Manual Aperture Lens – ergo (manual) Stop Down TTL or Hand Held Metering. That means I HAVE to slow down. So if I have to slow down that means I will always use a Tripod. If I am going to carry a Tripod that means I am going to put extra effort into the planning . . . Conclusion the 14mm is not used as a “walk about lens”.

This is one of the first of what I intend to be a good crop out of the Samyang 14/2.8: like Donald’s Image, amongst other elements, it seeks to exploit a ‘near-far’ relationship within the composition – and like Donald’s image it took a lot of time and some minute tripod adjustments to get the composition where I wanted it.

R&R and C&C to your hearts' content.



North Cronulla Beach, Sydney - 2017

WW
Image © AJ Group Pty Ltd Aust 1996~2017 WMW 1965~1996

[Mike Buckley]

When taking the time and having the luxury of doing so to working with a wide-angle or ultra wide-angle lens, it seems to me that it would be especially helpful and enjoyable to shoot in a tethered situation when being connected to a computer so the image is displayed much larger on a monitor than on a camera's rear screen. Though I don't do that kind of photography, I have come to learn the benefits of tethered shooting while capturing scenes in my makeshift studio; fine-tuning everything related to composition and light is made so much easier, effective and enjoyable when viewing the image on the computer's monitor.

[William W]

Yes I have really been giving that serious thought, Mike - (more junk to carry around).

Seriously, for now, for me, I am taking little steps and one step at a time: this "Landscape Photography" is a very new venture for me, I haven't even been even halfway serious about it since the mandatory sessions using View and Field Cameras at College - and that was a long time ago.

Also I have been thinking that I need a sufficiently light shielded tethered screen as I tend to be attracted to seascapes, coastlines and the brighter landscapes: I have been looking for a 'snoot' that I can use on my laptop - any ideas?

WW

[Manfred M]

Bill - in my view UWA lenses are one of the most difficult lenses to use effectively, otherwise one ends up with a lot of ground and sky, which rarely makes for an interesting image. At these focal lengths one millimeter difference in focal length really does have a significant effect on what is captured. Likewise, shifting the lens a centimeter or two can make a lot of difference in what the image does look like, so as you point out, slowing down and shooting from a tripod can make a lot of difference. I have the Nikkor f/2.8 14-24mm lens and when I look at my shooting stats, it is the the one of the lenses I use most often; for around 5% of my images and I usually shoot it at or close to a 14mm focal length.

You (and Donald) are quite correct that including a significant foreground element is critical, otherwise one ends up with a very uninteresting image with a lot of ground and a lot of sky. I also find it very useful for interior architectural shots, especially in a busy, tourist environment, where one can step in front of everyone else and totally eliminate everyone else in the room. I find that using the camera's internal level or using a hot shoe bubble level really helps there as using a tripod in shots in those types of environments is downright impossible. And yes, those foreground elements are important in these shots too.

[Mike Buckley]

Sorry, Bill, but I don't have any specific suggestions about ideal devices to attach to a monitor when shooting outdoors. That's because all of my tethered shooting is done indoors in a dark makeshift studio where I have no need for such an attachment. I only know the devices exist. If nothing else, throw a black cloth over you and the laptop computer much the same as photographers using a view camera do.

[William W]

Yes I took the black cloth to the beach for that shot so I could (effectively) use "Live View" on my 5DII.
Yes I got some very strange looks.

[William W]

Thanks Manfred. I haven't used the 14mm Lens inside yet. Even though I have a 16 to 35, I've mainly used 24mm for most indoor (architecture) shots: but yes I agree the 14mm will be 'wonderful' for my collection of (especially) Church Interiors. That certainly was one of the purposes for its purchase.

[george013]

I think there're two different ways the wide angle was used in the examples here. William used the wide angle to add perspective to the image, the illusion of that third dimension in a two dimensional plane. I know we're not on one line concerning the use of the word. I'm still busy with it.
Manfred made use of the wide angle probably for he didn't had a choice for his composition: either full or half objects in the image. But they're not adding to the main object.

Off topic. But does anybody have experience with the Tamron SP 15-30mm f/2.8 VC USD?

George

[William W]

I think that the inclusion of table at Camera Right in Manfred's shot has a reasonably similar effect to the inclusion of the Flags at Camera Right in my shot: that is the effect creating the illusion of Depth in a 2 dimensional plane, (i.e. the third dimension or as George states "perspective").

I think that the effect is more dramatic in the Beach image simply because the Beach image has a view to infinity, but the Indoor shot ends at the wall behind the Altar.

Referring to Donald's image (link noted in Post #1), the effect of the Illusion of Depth is most dramatic, similar to the Beach shot - again mainly because Donald's shot has a view to infinity.

There are other elements which make the illusion of depth more or less dramatic - but whether the shot is indoors or outdoors is usually one of the main element to first consider.

WW

[george013]

I think that the inclusion of table at Camera Right in Manfred's shot has a reasonably similar effect to the inclusion of the Flags at Camera Right in my shot: that is the effect creating the illusion of Depth in a 2 dimensional plane, (i.e. the third dimension or as George states "perspective").

I think that the effect is more dramatic in the Beach image simply because the Beach image has a view to infinity, but the Indoor shot ends at the wall behind the Altar.

Referring to Donald's image (link noted in Post #1), the effect of the Illusion of Depth is most dramatic, similar to the Beach shot - again mainly because Donald's shot has a view to infinity.

There are other elements which make the illusion of depth more or less dramatic - but whether the shot is indoors or outdoors is usually one of the main element to first consider.

WW

You forget the "spirit" or meaning of an image. Yours was to accentuate the depth, the third dimension and used the wa and the composition for that.
Manfreds goal was that statue. He used the wa to create a composition with full elements on it, not half.
Donalds image was a personal testimony. His image has that depth but also a direction. A man or statue moving to that house in the distance.
Except for Manfreds picture, the wa wasn't a must. They could be done with other focal length too.

George

[John 2]

[URL="https://www.cambridgeincolour.com/forums/thread58193.htm"]


......................One of the reasons that prompted me to start this thread was Donald’s comments about taking time (or extra time) because of using an UWA Lens. An interesting and associated reason why I bought the Samyang 14mm is because it is a Manual Focus and also Manual Aperture Lens – ergo (manual) Stop Down TTL or Hand Held Metering. That means I HAVE to slow down. So if I have to slow down that means I will always use a Tripod. If I am going to carry a Tripod that means I am going to put extra effort into the planning . . . Conclusion the 14mm is not used as a “walk about lens”. ................

I often use both a SAMYANG 10mm or a Fuji14mm lens in the circumstances that have already been described. Although the SAMYANG is a manual lens, the Fuji is fully coupled and I rarely use a tripod (laziness). None the less, your premise still holds good. In my case, I think the reason is that in looking for potential images, what you see is basically what will be presented to you when the camera is fitted with a 35mm or a 50mm lens (depending on the format). This is still true to some extent for a short telephoto or even a 23mm. It's not true at ultra wide and so a degree of imagination is needed in "seeing" the shot Prior to capturing the image. That is what makes the process more "considered" for me and hence agreeing with the premise that Bill has put forward. Incidentally, a welcomed bi-product of this seems to be that my keeper rate also improves.

[Rob Ekins]

Also I have been thinking that I need a sufficiently light shielded tethered screen as I tend to be attracted to seascapes, coastlines and the brighter landscapes: I have been looking for a 'snoot' that I can use on my laptop - any ideas?

WW

Bill,
I use the EOS remote software and DJI Software (Drone) on my phone with a Hoodman Aviator Loupe. Maybe something like that could work for you instead of lugging a laptop around?

I have a Hoodman HAV6 and HAV6E Loupe for iPhone6 that I ordered by mistake collecting dust you are welcome to if you think you could use them..

[Shadowman]

Yes I took the black cloth to the beach for that shot so I could (effectively) use "Live View" on my 5DII.
Yes I got some very strange looks.

This device might suit your needs.

http://www.easierliving.com/kantek-m...All%20Products

[William W]

. . . Manfreds goal was that statue. He used the wa to create a composition with full elements on it, not half.

I don’t know exactly what Manfred’s goal(s) was/were. I think it is implied that there was a group of people behind him and by using an UWA lens he could get closer and still capture a wide view of the room: but the question remains, if the room were empty would he have still chosen an UWA lens for the shot to achieve goals other than to get in front of a group of people?

Manfred has not disclosed that information

***

Except for Manfreds picture, the wa wasn't a must. They could be done with other focal length too.

That is an incorrect statement.

Speaking for myself, the Vision and Concept of the Beach shot specifically required the use of an UWA lens – specifically wider than 16mm. That was stated clearly in the opening post, my bold now for emphasis:

“This is one of the first of what I intend to be a good crop out of the Samyang 14/2.8: like Donald’s Image, amongst other elements, it seeks to exploit a ‘near-far’ relationship within the composition”

That statement goes directly to describing my intention for (your words) the “spirit” or “meaning” of the image.

If other lenses were chosen, that beach shot would not have the same level of "exploitation of near-far", and that's why the 14mm lens was specifically chosen for the task.

WW

[William W]

. . . I think the reason is that in looking for potential images, what you see is basically what will be presented to you when the camera is fitted with a 35mm or a 50mm lens (depending on the format). This is still true to some extent for a short telephoto or even a 23mm. It's not true at ultra wide and so a degree of imagination is needed in "seeing" the shot Prior to capturing the image. That is what makes the process more "considered" for me and hence agreeing with the premise that Bill has put forward. . .

Exactly that happens for me too. In fact on the same beach, almost at the same place, a while ago this image below was made with a 23mm lens on an APS-C Format (FL equiv. about 35mm on 135 Format). I “saw” this shot immediately and I knew exactly what I wanted from it:



... but when using an UWA such as 14mm, I needed a lot more time to think.

WW

[William W]

Bill,
I use the EOS remote software and DJI Software (Drone) on my phone with a Hoodman Aviator Loupe. Maybe something like that could work for you instead of lugging a laptop around?

I have a Hoodman HAV6 and HAV6E Loupe for iPhone6 that I ordered by mistake collecting dust you are welcome to if you think you could use them..

Thank you, Robbie. That is a very kind offer, but I tend to carry around and work with a 'small' laptop in my camera bag for reasons other than tethering.

But what I did find is that company makes (relatively inexpensive) Hoods for (camera) B/C Monitor LCD screens - and I think one of those might do fine. I just sent them an email to find out the couplings and also the weight.

Thanks so much for the link.

WW

[rpcrowe]

Yes I took the black cloth to the beach for that shot so I could (effectively) use "Live View" on my 5DII.
Yes I got some very strange looks.

Using a Camera Loupe will allow the same thing as a dark cloth over ones head, that is to allow you to view the LCD screen without the problems of light being reflected from the viewfinder.
Loupes come in all types and in many different prices. I have a Hoodman Loupe for my Canon DSLR cameras which attaches with an elastic band holder. I purchased a very inexpensive loupe for my wife's P&S camera. That has a magnetic frame which attaches to the camera with double side tape. The loupe then attaches to the frame magnetically.

Some loupes have a magnifier but, since you can magnify the live view, I don't think that a hood magnifier is a critical item.

For a monitor shield, simply find a cardboard box about the size of the monitor screen. Cut it so that it has only four sides and the top or bottom left - that will give you the top/bottom open. Paint the inside black and cut a viewing hole in the the bottom/top. Simply place the open end of the box over the screen and view the screen through the hole you have cut. You can get more creative if you would like to...

[William W]

This device might suit your needs.

http://www.easierliving.com/kantek-m...All%20Products

Thanks John for the idea, but it appears that their products are too big, my (laptop) monitor is less than 11" (sorry I should have described that I have a a passion for small laptops a bit smaller than a standard "tablet".)

I also need top, side and also bottom screening - so I need an complete "snoot". I worked along side a guy at a sports meet in Adelaide in 2012 and he had the ideal device that was light weight, spring loaded and popped out with a 'goggle' cutout for one's forehead to rest against - just like the old movie machines in the arcades of a bygone era . . . of course for that week we talked about everything, had a few beers and dinners, but I never asked him where did he get it.

WW

[William W]

Using a Camera Loupe . . .

Thanks Richard. That's another option and also less cumbersome than toting a small laptop with me. Certainly not expensive I am thinking that I will get a Camera Loupe "as well as".

WW

[rpcrowe]

My wife has had some very hard times framing any pictures with her P&S which only has the LCD for a viewfinder. The loupe makes it a lot easier to shoot but, does add some bulk to the camera. I am trying to convince her to use my Canon SX-50HS bridge camera which has an eye level electronic viewfinder and is not much larger than the P&S and the loupe. The SX-50HS is more versatile than P&S and can be just as easy to use in either full auto or programmed auto.