Epson 3880 printer - 300 vs 360 dpi

[imagemkr]

I've recently purchased an Epson 3880 printer. I've seen info regarding the preferred dpi as 360. Most of my files are at 300dpi and I have printed a few of these with the new printer. They seem fine. Will I notice a difference if I print at 360? I really don't want to have to convert all my files (at least those I'm going to print).

So my question is: does it really make a difference and is it worth the effort to modify them to 360dpi?

Thanks, Thom

[Polar01]

Thom Epson printers default setting is 360 dots per inch, Canon and I believe HP default at 300. Even when printing at 240 you can usually get a pretty good image at smaller sizes. Is it worth to reset the images you have already done, to my way of thinking no. It is not hard to change future images, if using LR or Photoshop you can do this when you first open your images, not sure with LR but in Photoshop when you open in ACR that line under the image click on it and it will take you to the raw settings. If using something else I sure that there is a way to do this.

Cheers: Allan

[Manfred M]

I have the Epson 3880 as well and use the 360 dpi for all of my printing, because in theory, printing at the native resolution will give the best results.

You can certainly leave them at 300 dpi and let the printer drivers do the scaling. They are quite good and chances are quite good that you won't notice any difference. I just happen to prefer doing things myself, rather than relying on automation; I get fewer nasty surprises that way (not just in printing).

[george013]

I've recently purchased an Epson 3880 printer. I've seen info regarding the preferred dpi as 360. Most of my files are at 300dpi and I have printed a few of these with the new printer. They seem fine. Will I notice a difference if I print at 360? I really don't want to have to convert all my files (at least those I'm going to print).

So my question is: does it really make a difference and is it worth the effort to modify them to 360dpi?

Thanks, Thom

Your files don't have something as a dpi. Your printer has something as dpi.
If you understand that difference, things become much easier.

George

[Manfred M]

Your files don't have something as a dpi. Your printer has something as dpi.
If you understand that difference, things become much easier.

George

Actually George, this is not correct when it comes to printing. The dpi is a scaling factor and it has to be considered in when sizing the image for printing. HP and Canon printers have a native resolution of 300 dpi and Epson printers have a native resolution of 360 dpi. The Photoshop and Lightroom setup screens both require the dpi to be entered.

When we print, we have to set the image size as well as the scaling factor when resizing the image. If we stick to the native resolution of the printer when scaling, the interpolation of upsampling or downsampling will occur only once, int the PP software. If we do not apply the native resolution at the time of scaling the image, interpolation will occur both in the PP image resizing operation as well as when the image data flows over to the printer and the printer driver is used.

[george013]

Actually George, this is not correct when it comes to printing. The dpi is a scaling factor and it has to be considered in when sizing the image for printing. HP and Canon printers have a native resolution of 300 dpi and Epson printers have a native resolution of 360 dpi. The Photoshop and Lightroom setup screens both require the dpi to be entered.

When we print, we have to set the image size as well as the scaling factor when resizing the image. If we stick to the native resolution of the printer when scaling, the interpolation of upsampling or downsampling will occur only once, int the PP software. If we do not apply the native resolution at the time of scaling the image, interpolation will occur both in the PP image resizing operation as well as when the image data flows over to the printer and the printer driver is used.

The file has a dimension of x by y pixels. Nothing more or nothing less. In your editor you can calculate what dimension your image will get when viewed at a certain resolution. And if you want you can resize the image. But the file itself won't get a property as dpi.

George

[Manfred M]

In that case, why does this file show a 360 ppi resolution?

[xpatUSA]

In that case, why does this file show a 360 ppi resolution?

Excellent riposte! Interesting that "dpi" suddenly becomes "ppi" as if there were no difference.

Hopefully in this thread someone could explain that.

I know very little about printers but I thought that printer "dots" were those actual pico-liter splodges of ink emanating from the head and that there could be quite a few "dots" per "pixel" . . . but now I'm confused.

Makes me glad I don't print, eh? Please pardon my levity.

[Polar01]

To make it more fun, I use a Epson set at 360 dpi/ppi that is what is shows, now when I print, I can adjust the print quality to 2880 x1440 for high quality or 1440 x 720 for regular quality.

Cheers: Allan

[Manfred M]

There is a difference, but the image pixels map to the printer pixels quite nicely. I'm going to simplify a bit and I'm not going to be pendantic and will refer to black as a colour, even though it's not.

Let me stick with the Epson Stylus Pro 3880, that I know quite well. It has 8 different ink colours (black, gray (Epson calls this Light Black), light gray (Epson calls this Light Light Black), light magenta, magenta, yellow, light cyan and cyan). Just to confuse things a bit, there are two blacks; one (Photo Black) is used for glossy paper and the other (Matte Black) is used for matte papers, but only one of these is used for a print and the printer selects which one based on paper type in use).

The 3880 can also deposit two different dot sizes; a full sized dot and a half sized dot, so the printer can generate additional colours by varying the dot size. In the highest quality mode, the printer deposits 2880 dpi using the 8 "colours", so 2880/8 = 360 dpi, which is the "native resolution" of the Epson printers. Canon and HP printers run at 2400 dpi, so 2400/8 = 300 dpi resolution.

So, the mapping between the pixels in the file and dots on the paper do line up; one colour pixel in the image maps to 8 discrete ink dots on the paper. If you set your native resolution in your image file to be the same as the printer resolution, the printer driver does not have to do any interpolation, hence the recommendation of using file resolution of 300 ppi for images to be printed on Canon and HP printers and 360 ppi for Epson printers all makes sense.

[xpatUSA]

There is a difference, but the image pixels map to the printer pixels quite nicely. I'm going to simplify a bit and I'm not going to be pendantic and with refer to black as a colour, even though it's not.

Let me stick with the Epson Stylus Pro 3880, that I know quite well. It has 8 different ink colours (black, gray (Epson calls this Light Black), light gray (Epson calls this Light Light Black), light magenta, magenta, yellow, light cyan and cyan). Just to confuse things a bit, there are two blacks; one (Photo Black) is used for glossy paper and the other (Matte Black) is used for matte papers, but only one of these is used for a print and the printer selects which one based on paper type in use).

The 3880 can also deposit two different dot sizes; a full sized dot and a half sized dot, so the printer can generate additional colours by varying the dot size. In the highest quality mode, the printer deposits 2880 dpi using the 8 "colours", so 2880/8 = 360 dpi, which is the "native resolution" of the Epson printers. Canon and HP printers run at 2400 dpi, so 2400/8 = 300 dpi resolution.

So, the mapping between the pixels in the file and dots on the paper do line up; one colour pixel in the image maps to 8 discrete ink dots on the paper. If you set your native resolution in your image file to be the same as the printer resolution, the printer driver does not have to do any interpolation, hence the recommendation of using file resolution of 300 ppi for images to be printed on Canon and HP printers and 360 ppi for Epson printers all makes sense.

Thanks for the explanation, Manfred, which does indeed highlight the peculiar world of photography where "dpi" means at least two different things but, fortunately, "everybody knows" which is which!

[dje]

Interesting that "dpi" suddenly becomes "ppi" as if there were no difference.

Ted I think it's a subtle difference - ppi is really all PhotoShop can talk about because it is simply scaling the pixel dimensions of the image to a certain resolution. So if you have an image that is 3000 pixels wide and you intend to print it 10" wide, PS will be sending an image to the printer that has 300 pixels corresponding to one inch of printing - 300 ppi.

Manfred has explained clearly how dots per inch in a printer gets complicated!

Dave

[xpatUSA]

Ted I think it's a subtle difference - ppi is really all PhotoShop can talk about because it is simply scaling the pixel dimensions of the image to a certain resolution. So if you have an image that is 3000 pixels wide and you intend to print it 10" wide, PS will be sending an image to the printer that has 300 pixels corresponding to one inch of printing - 300 ppi.

Manfred has explained clearly how dots per inch in a printer gets complicated!

Dave

Thanks, I don't use Photoshop but I understand the point.

That he has, Dave. Looks like "dpi" means anything Chuck Norris says it means . . just kidding.

Is it time to talk about monitor dpi yet . . .

[dje]

Is it time to talk about monitor dpi yet . . .

Ted I'm not really a macoshist

[george013]

In that case, why does this file show a 360 ppi resolution?

You tell me. I can change that number to any value without changing the file or print. It's more like a request.

The 3880 can also deposit two different dot sizes; a full sized dot and a half sized dot, so the printer can generate additional colours by varying the dot size. In the highest quality mode, the printer deposits 2880 dpi using the 8 "colours", so 2880/8 = 360 dpi, which is the "native resolution" of the Epson printers. Canon and HP printers run at 2400 dpi, so 2400/8 = 300 dpi resolution.

You're stating now that 2880 is equal to 360???? And 2400 is equal to 300???? Very confusing. It looks more as a printing resolution of 300ppi will use 2400dpi. My first conclusion would be that a lot of books and software may be rewritten.

I must say I don't know how a printer works. Are the colors laid next to each other or across each other?

Dave,

Ted I think it's a subtle difference - ppi is really all PhotoShop can talk about because it is simply scaling the pixel dimensions of the image to a certain resolution. So if you have an image that is 3000 pixels wide and you intend to print it 10" wide, PS will be sending an image to the printer that has 300 pixels corresponding to one inch of printing - 300 ppi.

So the way we use it, is always pixels per inch. When I recalculate the image size to be sent to the printer to be printed at 100%, I do the calculations on pixels per inch. And when I print the same image on 300"dpi" vs 360 "dpi" at 100% I will get 2 different sizes. And when being printed on the same size, at least one of them must be resized. by the printer driver or by you.

George

[dem]

So my question is: does it really make a difference and is it worth the effort to modify them to 360dpi?

I do not think it will make much difference so it is probably not worth doing.

An image file has x by y pixel (the actual data to print or display on the monitor) and a ppi tag that is supplied as EXIF metadata (two tags in fact: "X resolution" and "Y resolution") and can be changed to any value you want without affecting the image data.

A printer has its own resolution (dpi) that is hardware limited and is fixed to a particular value, say 300 dpi. You might be able to change this setting to say 200 dpi, but you cannot ask your printer to print at say 299 or 301 dpi, unless these are predefined options and the hardware can accommodate them.

A printer would normally give at least two options regarding the size of the print: either print "original image size, scale 100%" or "fit to page, auto-scale".

In the first case, the printer driver reads the ppi tags from the EXIF, recalculates the dimensions of the image in inches and prints it at these dimension (upsampling or downsampling the image as required) at whatever dpi the printer resolution was set to.

In the second case, the printer driver ignores the ppi tags from the EXIF, uses the paper dimensions to upsample or downsample the image and prints the image again at whatever its dpi was set to.

There is often a third option called something like "Zoom, 100%" or "dot-to-dot", when the printer driver ignores the ppi tags from the EXIF, ignores the actual paper size and prints each pixel as a "dot" at printer's own resolution. No upsampling/downsampling is taking place and the size of the print is defined by the dpi setting of the printer.

Back to the OP. Unless you are using method #3 and, like Manfred, upsampling/downsampling your images manually for a specific print size and resolution (say 20" x 30" at 360 dpi), you won't get any improvement by simply changing the value of the ppi tag in your files.

[dje]

Are the colors laid next to each other or across each other?

George

Next to each other in a dither pattern. But don't ask me the details!

Thom

This article on the Epson 3880 by Eric Chan might be of interest. It contains a section on Native Resolution under the Print Quality Section.

Dave

[xpatUSA]

Next to each other in a dither pattern. But don't ask me the details!

Thom

This article on the Epson 3880 by Eric Chan might be of interest. It contains a section on Native Resolution under the Print Quality Section.

Dave

Excellent article: these links get us a little closer to the subject at hand (saves a bit of scrolling or searching):

http://people.csail.mit.edu/ericchan...tml#native_res

http://people.csail.mit.edu/ericchan...arison_fourway

.

[imagemkr]

Thanks for the article, Dave. The more I read the more confusing it gets. Maybe I should just keep doing my thing as the results are fine. Read below.

[imagemkr]

I have been having my prints done professionally at a local digital studio before buying the 3880. The printers they use are Epson 9800s and my files that they printed from were always sized and sharpened at 300 and no one ever mentioned 360 and they came out just fine. My last printer about 12-15 years ago was an Epson 1280 and I always printed at 300 or sometimes 250 with excellent results.