Sharpness?

[Rebel]

If Robert Capa was alive would you pull him up on this bull**** sharpness?

[xpatUSA]

If Robert Capa was alive would you pull him up on this bull**** sharpness?

Not to mention that horrendous noise . . .

[Rebel]

Not to mention that horrendous noise . . .

I like you

ISO must of been high as f*ck

[rpcrowe]

I like you

ISO must of been high as f*ck

Not at all... The film was screwed up during processing. The darkroom technician apparently dried the negatives at too high a temperature which caused reticulation of the emulsion which looks like film grain....

https://www.skylighters.org/photos/robertcapa.html
"A darkroom technician was almost as anxious to see the invasion images as Capa himself. In his haste, the technician dried the film too quickly. The excess heat melted the emulsion on all but 10 of the frames. Those that remained were blurred, surreal shots, which succinctly conveyed the chaos and confusion of the day."

There are arguments that the blurriness of the images were due to camera shake combined from a slow film speed and a dreary day. His lens, however, was an f/2...

Capa was an excellent war photographer. Arguably his most famous photograph was the Spanish Civil War image of the soldier at the moment he was shot.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-ago-week.html

However, the authenticity of this shot has been debated...

[Rebel]

Not at all... The film was screwed up during processing. The darkroom technician apparently dried the negatives at too high a temperature which caused reticulation of the emulsion which looks like film grain....

https://www.skylighters.org/photos/robertcapa.html
"A darkroom technician was almost as anxious to see the invasion images as Capa himself. In his haste, the technician dried the film too quickly. The excess heat melted the emulsion on all but 10 of the frames. Those that remained were blurred, surreal shots, which succinctly conveyed the chaos and confusion of the day."

There are arguments that the blurriness of the images were due to camera shake combined from a slow film speed and a dreary day. His lens, however, was an f/2...

Capa was an excellent war photographer. Arguably his most famous photograph was the Spanish Civil War image of the soldier at the moment he was shot.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-ago-week.html

However, the authenticity of this shot has been debated...

Thank you

[Rebel]

I didnt think the authenticity was about this one, but the one with the soldier getting shot?

[george013]

I didnt think the authenticity was about this one, but the one with the soldier getting shot?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/photoblog...ole_story.html

There're more articles.
If you're interested in photo's from Capa try to buy "The Mexican Suitcase". Google for further info. It has wonderful info about how one worked at that time.

George

[rpcrowe]

I think that Matt might see some humor in the title of Robert Capa's autobiography.

https://www.amazon.com/Slightly-Out-...6530614&sr=1-2

Yep, above is the Spanish Loyalist Soldier image I referred to. There have been pros and cons regarding whether this was an actual war shot or a staged shot. I have not really taken sides except to say; posed or actual, this is a great shot!

BTW: Arguably the most famous World War Two image of American servicemen is the shot of the U.S. Marines and a Navy Hospital Corpsmen raising the flag over Mt. Suribachi on the Island of Iwo Jima was staged. The first raising was shot by a Marine Corps photographer...

First raising:


Second flag raising, staged for Joe Rosenthal for which he won the Pulitzer Prize


Doubtless, the shot of the second flag raising is more dramatic.

[Shadowman]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/photoblog...ole_story.html

There're more articles.
If you're interested in photo's from Capa try to buy "The Mexican Suitcase". Google for further info. It has wonderful info about how one worked at that time.

George

I think part of the mystique, platitudes bestowed on this image is solely based on our belief that Capa put his life in danger to capture the image; thing is he did put his life in danger on countless other times or at least in the instance that led to his death. Makes you wonder if the daringness that led to his death had anything to do with the suspicions raised from this particular image.

[rpcrowe]

Actually John, if you read the account of the D-Day Landings, Capa had enough and he reboarded an invasion craft...

However, he is still one of my favorite (among many) war photographers.

I just purchased the Kindle Edition of his autobiographical book, Slightly Out of Focus. At less than four U.S. Dollars and no worries about where to put the hard copy, this seemed like a bargain. I am reading it on my Samsung Chromebook and it is written in a style that I can enjoy...

he book starts with him in New York maneuvering to get permission to go to England for an assignment. He was after all, an "enemy alien" being Hungarian by birth. I hope that the book will go back to describe his earlier career.

[Shadowman]

Actually John, if you read the account of the D-Day Landings, Capa had enough and he reboarded an invasion craft...

However, he is still one of my favorite (among many) war photographers.

I just purchased the Kindle Edition of his autobiographical book, Slightly Out of Focus. At less than four U.S. Dollars and no worries about where to put the hard copy, this seemed like a bargain. I am reading it on my Samsung Chromebook and it is written in a style that I can enjoy...

he book starts with him in New York maneuvering to get permission to go to England for an assignment. He was after all, an "enemy alien" being Hungarian by birth. I hope that the book will go back to describe his earlier career.

It is so easy to commit falsities either deliberately or unknowingly, I often wonder how musicians can claim rights to a tune; hasn't every possible score already been created. The same can be said of every image captured, hasn't every composition already been captured. My take on it all is what I believe to be an original quote of mine "Dare I condemn a man...". I couldn't find the words online but similar phrasing did appear; but I feel the words fit Capa's experience.

[Mike Buckley]

Richard,

There is a lot of information readily available that refutes your assertion that the Pulitzer-winning Iwo Jima shot by Rosenthal was staged. At the minimum, there is enough debate about it, just like with the Capa photo, to legitimately wonder about it.

[george013]

I think part of the mystique, platitudes bestowed on this image is solely based on our belief that Capa put his life in danger to capture the image; thing is he did put his life in danger on countless other times or at least in the instance that led to his death. Makes you wonder if the daringness that led to his death had anything to do with the suspicions raised from this particular image.

Capa was there for a sake in the first place. I don't think he ever knew on the fore hand this photo was published. It started a life after publication. As a war picture sec it's not that important, the death of only one man.
From The New York Times http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/27/ar...gn/27kenn.html, at the end for the lazy ones.

“Capa established a mode and the method of depicting war in these photographs, of the photographer not being an observer but being in the battle, and that became the standard that audiences and editors from then on demanded,” he said. “Anything else, and it looked like you were just sitting on the sidelines. And that visual revolution he embodied took place right here, in these early pictures.”l

A similar thing happened with television during the Gulf War. One could see life the bombs falling and exploding. And don't forget the Twin Towers, life on tv.

George

[george013]

Actually John, if you read the account of the D-Day Landings, Capa had enough and he reboarded an invasion craft...

However, he is still one of my favorite (among many) war photographers.

I just purchased the Kindle Edition of his autobiographical book, Slightly Out of Focus. At less than four U.S. Dollars and no worries about where to put the hard copy, this seemed like a bargain. I am reading it on my Samsung Chromebook and it is written in a style that I can enjoy...

he book starts with him in New York maneuvering to get permission to go to England for an assignment. He was after all, an "enemy alien" being Hungarian by birth. I hope that the book will go back to describe his earlier career.

He was a Hungarian leftish Jew. He was a triple refugee. He had to escape from Hungaria for political reasons. He had to escape from Germany for both political and racial reasons. And after the Germans occupied France again. He was not just a Hungarian by birth. And he showed his skills already.
The possibility that his political ideas would form an obstacle for his American passport was his greatest fear. And looking at the development in America to keep that passport.

George

[Shadowman]

Capa was there for a sake in the first place. I don't think he ever knew on the fore hand this photo was published. It started a life after publication. As a war picture sec it's not that important, the death of only one man.
From The New York Times http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/27/ar...gn/27kenn.html, at the end for the lazy ones.


A similar thing happened with television during the Gulf War. One could see life the bombs falling and exploding. And don't forget the Twin Towers, life on tv.

George

Hi George,

Thanks for the link, I viewed a documentary which presented similar thoughts. Regarding recent coverage, I often think much of the grieving captures are not staged so much by the photographer but by those actually grieving. If you are standing beside a gravesite or memorial and you see a photographer/videographer are you going to stand there stoically or are you going to perform for the camera? In this me, me, me selfie world today I don't think it takes prodding from the photographer but sometimes it probably occurs.

[Round Tuit]

If Robert Capa was alive would you pull him up on this bull**** sharpness?

Matt,
When I first read your question, it sounded to me as if you were looking for an argument rather than starting a civilized discussion and so I ignored it. Apparently so did everybody else since no one has addressed it so far. I hope that I was wrong or at least that whatever was bothering you when you posted it has resolved itself because I think that the question is a valid one and that it deserves serious consideration.
The short answer that I would give to your question is YES and I believe that if Robert Capa were alive today, his answer would also be yes. I don't think that he set out to shoot blurry pictures. He did the best that he could under very difficult circumstances and then, to make matters worst, the technician overcooked his negatives. He did managed to "capture the moment" very well but that should not stop us from critiquing his composition or the technical aspect of his photo. I would suspect that if he were alive today, he would be shooting digital, in colour and most likely sharp and well exposed photos because his equipment would allow him to do so.
In my humble opinion as a rank amateur, there are three key elements that contribute to a making a good photo. The first is the content or subject of the photo. The second is the composition and the third is the technical execution(focus, exposure, depth of field, etc). Reportage and street photographers sometimes have to sacrifice the second and third element in order to catch a scene that may only last brief instant. That is a legitimate compromise but I don't believe that it should be used as an excuse when the opportunity to consider all three is there.
As en example of a well composed, focused and well exposed photo that captures the misery of life in a war torn contry, have a look at "Afghan Girl" by journalist Steve McCurry which appeared on the June 1985 cover of National Geographic.
André

[Donald]

If Robert Capa was alive would you pull him up on this bull**** sharpness?

I assume you're attempting to be provocative and controversial in your use of language.

It all depends on what you think photography is. Is it a technical exercise engaged in capturing realistic representations of a scene, or is it something that is about capturing a mood, an atmosphere, a tension - an expression/interpretation of what was happening at the time?

Once you answer that you can answer your first question.

[Tronhard]

I think that what makes this image iconic in its own right is:
1. It was one of the few photos taken on the day that made it to press on the day.
2. This is a true combat shot, taken from the killing zone under fire (and Capa was noted for his determination to be close-in to the action with his photography)
3. It its way, intended or not (probably the latter), it's chaotic nature creates a sense of tension and disharmony that to me represents the stress and fog of combat.
4. If Capa's images had all been processed properly it may well have been that this image(and the other ones) would have turned out very differently, or been discarded because other, better shots were available.

I often wonder what became of that technician...

[William W]

. . . It all depends on what you think photography is. Is it a technical exercise engaged in capturing realistic representations of a scene, or is it something that is about capturing a mood, an atmosphere, a tension - an expression/interpretation of what was happening at the time? . . .

I concur.

And that doesn't mean that the answer is one or the other; it can be somewhere in between, a combination of both.

Much depends on the Purpose and the Context of that Purpose.

WW

[rpcrowe]

I think that what makes this image iconic in its own right is:
1. It was one of the few photos taken on the day that made it to press on the day.

As per Robert Capa's book, slightly out of focus...

There were two photographers assigned to cover that beach on that day. Capa was one and the second photographer never got off the landing craft but, rode it back to the mother ship.

Capa also left the combat area early, he was diagnosed with physical exhaustion and sailed back to England with the wounded.

If you read his account of his beachhead experience, it is easy to realize how he could be exhausted.

One of the problems that Capa had was that the darned Contax camera he used was difficult to reload. Instead of just opening the back and inserting a new roll of film, you had to remove the bottom and rear of the camera in order to replace your roll. This means that you had to juggle four separate parts in order to load a roll of film: 1. the body of the camera itself, 2. the rear and bottom of the camera, 3. the exposed roll of film and the 4. the new roll of film. This was cartainly a step up from using a Graphic Press Camera but it was still a PITA. Especially when bullets are flying.

I was a Navy Combat Cameraman and covered the Vietnam Conflict with 16mm motion picture film cameras...

The camera I used during combat, was the Bell and Howell Model 70. This was a spring operated camera that took 100 foot rolls of 16mm film and was generically called a "Filmo" (the 35mm version of this camera was generically called, an "Eyemo")

16mm Model 70 DR


This camera was reloaded in multiple steps:

1. Untape a 16mm 100 foot film can
2. Rotate the two door locks (silver looking things above and below the viewfinder)
3. Remove the door which gives you access to the camera interior
4. Remove the new roll of film from the aluminum can
5. Removed the exposed roll of film - the exposed roll would be at the bottom of the camera
6. Replace the exposed roll in the can that contained the fresh roll
7. Tape the can closed - this time the tape went across rather than around the can.
8. That told us that the film in the can had been exposed
9. Switch the empty spool from the top to the bottom of the camera
10. Place the fresh spool at the top of the camera drawing about 10 inches of film off the spool
11. Open the film gate
12. Thread the film through the gate
13. Attach the lead end of the film to the bottom (now the take up) spool
14. Roll a bit of film onto the take up spool to make sure the connection is tight
15. Close the film gate
16. Replace the camera cover - ensuring that the correct objective is lined up with the correct lens
17. Rotate the pair of clasps to lock the door on
18. Wind the camera and shoot

This gave us about 2 minutes and 45 seconds of shooting at 24 frames per second and then we would DO IT AL OVER AGAIN! Each 2 minutes and 45 seconds of film weighed close to a half a pound (actually .4 pound or .18 kilograms)

I often think of this when people complain about having to switch CF or SD cards in their digital cameras...

I got to the point in which I could literally reload the Filmo with my eyes closed.

However, one time during some heavy firing, loading the camera became a difficult chore. I can relate to Capa having to reload his Contax while laying in the surf dodging bullets with guys getting killed around him.

One of the three amphibious landings I made with the Marines in Vietnam was opposed and IT AIN'T FUN. We didn't receive anywhere nearly the amount of fire that the troops on Omaha Beach received but, it still got my attention...

The absolutely greatest thing about the Filmo was its ruggedness. It was virtually indestructible.

We generally shot 16mm Ektachrome Commercial film which had an ASA (equal to the later ISO) of 25 under 3200 Kelvin and ASA 16 using a Wratten 85 filter. The way we used the filter was to unscrew one of the lenses from the turret. Cut a Gel filter round the size of the lens. Place it below the lens and secure it in place with a round spring (when you would invariably lose the spring, a paper clip could be bent to replace it). BTW: You had to cut and place the gel filter while avoiding any finger prints on it. That is not something you could do quickly or in the field.

The ASA 16 film speed would usually give us about an f/11 in bright sun. We had three lenses on the turret. The 25mm was the normal angle for a 16mm format. Since, in combat, I invariably shot hand held, I used a 10mm, 16mm and 25mm combination. That way, with the wide angle lenses, apparent camera shake would be minimized.

No auto focus (just used the distance scales on the lens), no auto exposure or even in camera metering and certainly no Image Stabilization. Those were the "GOOD OLD DAYS", yeah RIGHT