Greetings everyone. First post. Would like some advice.

[pshieronymus]

Hello community!

My name is Paul Hieronymus and this is my first post in this forum. I have already read through hundreds of posts and this seems like a great community for photographers! Happy to meet you all.

Quick history: I have always had interest in photography but never took the time to learn about its principles nor done much in the way of experimentation or practicing. My wife and I bid on studio family pictures package at a school fundraiser, won them, had the photos taken(they were beautiful), and then found purchasing actual prints or home pictures was more expensive than we were comfortable paying for(1000+ jsut to get started). My wife an I are typically drawn to DIY opportunities as it keeps us on our feet, keeps life fun, and sometimes saves money This seemed like a great opportunity for me to start my path learning about photography, beyond my smartphone.

My camera: My brother-in-law used to shoot professionally, and was kind enough to gift me his old Nikon D70s with a kit 18-70mm to start learning on. For the last 3-4 months I have read everything I could find to educate myself, had many great conversations with casual photographers, and taken a few thousand shots to help me experiment and learn about this super cool device. I am having a great deal of fun, and have produced about 2 or 3 nice pictures.

My Goal: I would like to shoot a decent set of family portrait pictures on my own. In the process of achieving this I hope to grow my interest in amateur photography, and be able to take nicer photos of my family and the places we visit, in the coming years(we love to travel as well)!

My Question: This camera is great, but has some issues. The card reader is flaky, often displaying an err message when trying to shoot. My brother in law says it could have anywhere in the range of 200-300K actuations on the shutter. And my feeling is that the 6MP sensor is just a bit too small for my purposes in the end. I would like to spend money on a new camera body(and eventually lens(es). I thought spending between 400 and 800 dollars on the body would be reasonable, and I am not opposed to purchasing used. I will want to accomplish my initial goal with it to shoot the family photos, but would then of course go on to continue my process in learning about photography. I like to shoot nature, my kids are fast and play a lot of sports, we like to be outside(in all kinds of weather), and would like some video capability as well.

I would like to stay with Nikon, as my access to lenses is much better there, and I have liked(and learned) the Nikon Controls.

What cropped sensor models would you recommend I consider?


Thanks everyone!

[LePetomane]

Paul, welcome to CiC. You will find a lot of good knowledgeable people here. Being a Fuji and Sony guy I know nothing about Nikon. I'm sure more knowledgeable people will chime in.

[tclune]

I would suggest a D7100 or D7200 camera, preferably factory refurbished (Nikon brings the camera back up to spec before allowing it to be sold.) I notice that Adorama is offering a D7200 body only refurbished for $740 right now -- which is a terrific bargain at about 1/3 off the usual price for a refurb D7200. I'd grab that and use the lens you already have until you decide that you want a particular lens for your specific needs after you have progressed a bit.

[NorthernFocus]

Easy choice. D7200, hands down. You can still find them new for $800 on Amazon etc, and used for much less. Nikon sells refurbs for $850. If that's too pricey then look for a used D7100(with 25k clicks or less). Same image quality as the 7200 but not as good for action photography. For reference on some very serious shoots I carry it in the bag along with a D4 and D810. In decent light its image quality is as good/better than the other two.

That D70s is prehistoric compared to even entry level current gen DSLRs.

[RandyRFJP]

Hi, Paul, and welcome to the forum. I have a D7200 and I think it's a great choice for an all-around camera. I've had it since May 2015 and haven't had any problems with it. I have an 18-300mm AF-S Nikkor DX f3.5-6.3G ED VR Zoom lens. Because the D7200 is a "crop sensor" body, the effective range of the zoom is 27-450mm. I think you probably would fine that this pairing of body and lens would be meet most of your needs.

[pshieronymus]

Wow. Thanks to everyone for the speedy replies. My feeling was that the 5200 or 5300 would likely suffice spec wise, but that I would regret not having the increased robustness from the Mag Alloy body of the 7XXX series. Plus I have pretty large hands! 7100/7200 looks like a good choice. Thanks very much for the replies and recommendations.

[pshieronymus]

Thanks NorthernFocus. To clarify, you carry the 7100 for backup or the 7200? Thanks.

[vaez]

i just with you god help you to find sit
this sit is very good
welcom to the forum

[inkista]

Just me, but for portrait photography, you may need to upgrade not just the body, but maybe the lens.... and then get some lighting gear.

And of the three (body, lens, lights)? The lights may be the most important, really for a portrait shooter. Just a thought.

[AlwaysOnAuto]

inkista (Kathy) offers some sound advice there.
I've got a D7000 and have handled my neighbors D7200 enough to know that it feels 'small' to me when compared to the D7k.
I recently was shooting some pics of my wife's latest quilts and found out lighting makes all the difference in the world. My son-in-law left me a fairly complete studio kit, complete with back drops, stands and lights too, when he and my daughter moved to Japan. The lights really made the difference shooting the quilts.
I'd recommend you get an older body, find a better portrait lens (old manual focus wouldn't be $$$$) and invest in a lighting kit.

[IzzieK]

Welcome to the forum, Paul...I am a professional amateur, also a Nikon user. What will be nice to do to learn easy is to take whatever you have for a camera right now and take some pictures of say, a scene around you, submit it here...then ask for a critique. You gotta have thick skin to be able to learn because you will receive some seemingly harsh comments about your shot, but the critique is the real eye opener but take in stride and ask the inevitable question: what advice can you give me to improve my shot?

Then there is post processing...there are no stupid questions here, so just ask away. We all have to start somewhere. Good that you find this forum. This is the best so far.

[pnodrog]

I have a D200 which I lend to relatives that want to try a DSLR out. It is still a very capable camera but a good second hand D300(or D300s) would be a pretty cheap way of starting out.

[DanK]

I don't shoot Nikon and know next to nothing about their bodies, so I can't say anything specific about them. However, reading, this thread, I think it might be worth raising a couple of more general points:

1. Re the magnesium alloy body: It's really hard to damage modern plastic bodies. I can't find the link, but there was a video some years ago by a well-known gear reviewer who tried to destroy Canon and Nikon plastic bodies. He eventually managed to, if I recall, but it took pretty extreme stuff, like wearing them as sandals. I personally like the feel of mag alloy bodies, and both of my bodies are mag alloy, but I wouldn't put this high on your list. To the extent that the physical characteristics of the body matter, I would focus more on how it feels in your hands and how easy the controls are to operate. For example, in the Canon line-up, there are essentially three control layouts, one used with the least expensive bodies, a second used with semi-pro and professional, and a third that is in between but closer to the pros. The first is quite different from the other two. When I upgraded from the cheapest years ago, it was primarily for ergonomics and controls that I find easier to use.

2. A big issue is what you mean by family photos. The beginning of your post suggests studio-like work, which I am guessing Kathy had in mind when replying. The end of your post suggests action photos. The two are very different.

For studio work, the quality of the AF system is essentially irrelevant. You may want a very fast lens (wide aperture) for very shallow depth of field. And sophisticated lighting can make a big difference.

Candid work with kids, particularly if they are playing sports, are a whole different issue. Obviously, you have no way to use sophisticated lighting. A very fast lens won't be optimal, unless it's very dark, because a narrow depth of field makes it harder to keep a kid in focus as she moves around. The quality of the AF system matters a good bit. For indoor candids, you will often need lighting, but of a much simpler sort, as you have to move it around with you. About 90% of my candids with kids are shot like this (apologies to those who have seen this many times):



The flash is bounced; I use a large bounce card to get some direct lighting, to avoid shadows and get some catch lights; and I have a small diffuser to make the direct light less harsh. (The bounce card and diffuser are from Demb; just google it if you are interested in them). The bounce card is on the side of the flash so that I can bend the flash 90 degrees for portrait orientation. In rare cases, I go a little fancier and use a flash bracket, but the fact is that this simpler rig works very well for candids. The lens is a 24-105 f/4 (on a full frame, so the equivalent of 16-70 on a Nikon crop sensor). I used to use a faster lens, but I found that I almost never wanted to shoot candids with a much bigger aperture because of the kids' motion. your mileage may vary, of course. I normally start at f/4.5. However, that is on a full frame, so with a crop sensor camera, that would be the DOF that you would get a bit wider, perhaps f/3.5.

[pshieronymus]

Thanks very much Dank for the very thorough and thought out post. Makes sense, portraits in studios and running legs on the soccer field, two very different things. Basically looking for a body that can handle both, recognizing that I will be spending additional money on lens, flash, lighting as I learn more. Interesting note on the body build. O definitely like he feel of the 7XXX in my hand over the lower range plastic models, however overall durability was my biggest concern. I want to be able to stand out in a light drizzle and not damage the camera, or perhaps a light dusty wind. If I get the clearance I will probably pick up a used D7200. I like the flash config. I have yet to do any experimenting with flashes, lighting or flash modes on my D70s, but will be moving in that direction soon. I like the looks of your setup. If there is a flash that I can purchase now for use on my D70s that will also move to my future D7200, that I can setup as you have pictured, please make a recommendation. Thanks in advance.

Thankyou Izziek as well. I like this idea, and have no problem taking criticism where it is warranted. Which forum sub should I post samples for input and critique?

Thanks also to AlwaysOnAuto and Inkista. Favorite lens for studio portrait work? Recommendations on an entry lighting kit?

Thanks to all who have responded. I love communities of this type.

[AlwaysOnAuto]

Check out these kits:

http://www.briteklighting.com/cool-f...nt-lights.html

They are similar to what my son-in-law left with me only I don't have LED lights. Halogens are HOT. I'd have chosen LED but beggars can't be chooser's.

[NorthernFocus]

Thanks NorthernFocus. To clarify, you carry the 7100 for backup or the 7200? Thanks.

D7200. Not only as backup. Depending on shooting conditions I still shoot it as primary.

[NorthernFocus]

The only real advantage of the D7200 over the 7100 is higher buffer capacity. Only relevant when using long bursts at high fps such as for sports/wildlife. I shot the 7100 for a couple of years too.

[Manfred M]

Paul - I am coming to this thread a bit late, but would like to add my two cents worth.

I'm not a sport photographer, so will not make any comments on that genre. The serious sports photographers (amateurs) I know tend to shoot two cameras; one with a long lens for when the action is far away and one with a mid-range lens that they will switch to when the action gets closer to them. They tend to use higher end cameras because they will use burst mode quite regularly. A camera that can track motion that moves towards you and away from you is going to be important, and I suspect that with the DX camera bodies under discussion, the D7100 or D7200 are going to give you the best "bang for the buck". When it comes to lenses, I'm afraid I can't help there, but again, the photographers I know that shoot that genre tend to use expensive and fast (large aperture) lenses because of the relatively high shutter speeds required in sports photography. If you look at the "pros"; I find that sports photographers and bird photographers tend to own some of the most expensive gear on the market.

I do a fair bit of studio type photography with family, friends and lately with professional models. This photographic genre can be a lot more gentle on the finances. You can absolutely do this with available light and fairly simple equipment. Pretty well and "late model" camera will do. You don't need a lot of expensive lighting equipment either; a simple piece of white foam core board (project board) makes a wonderful fill light (requires an assistant to hold it) for use with natural light. The bounce light that Dan shows is more suitable for "run & gun" shooting situations, for instance a wedding, rather than a more formal shooting environment.

A step up would be to get a Speedlight that you can combine with a light stand, photographic umbrella and umbrella holders. Use that in combination with a reflector, and you will get pro quality lighting. To start of, the pop-up flash with the Nikon CLS system (using the camera popup flash) as a trigger is a great place to start. A convertible umbrella (one that can be used as a reflector (white) and shoot through) is a pretty flexible way to start. Stay away from continuous light sources; they simply do not have enough power for portraiture work. There are some decent high end ones, but they are extraordinarily expensive (think in the thousands of dollars range), so probably not the direction you would want to go in. For single subjects, the most common pro lens is the full frame (FX) 70-200mm; which works out to around 45mm - 135mm in a DX lens. Shooting further away from your subject gives you a more pleasing image; wider angles me you have to stand close to your subject and you will get distortion that looks bad. In portraiture, especially studio portraiture, you are looking at shooting in the f/8 - f/11 range, so you won't need high end lenses. If you are shooting groups, then you will need a wider lens and larger light modifier.

Don't think that the small flash that comes on your camera or even a direct light from a Speedlight will give you good quality lighting. They are small, hence harsh light sources. This is why serious amateurs and pros use umbrellas and large soft boxes as light modifiers. A good rule of thumb is that your light modifier should be no further away than twice its diameter (for a round modifier) and twice its diagonal (for a rectangular one). When I shoot, my light modifiers are either just outside the frame and sometimes a corner gets into the shot and I have to remove it in post-production.

Plastic versus metal in a camera body; metal is definitely a stiffer and more rigid material; also more expensive, that is why you will only find it in higher end camera bodies. Do you strictly need it; perhaps not, but it will be more robust than plastic (guess which materials are used in pro and high end consumer camera bodies(. Regardless of which type of body you end up buying, the outer cover is an engineered plastic, which makes the camera more resistant to bumps.

[William W]

Hello back at ya.

I haven't used Nikon for several years, but I am competent and experienced enough to mention a few
Specifics about Nikon

> Plastic vs. Magnesium - don't worry about that

> Nikon's TTL Dedicated Hot Shoe FLASH System is excellent

> Nikon's TTL Metering for its Hot Shoe Flash System is excellent

> Nikon has DIFFERENT types of lenses which work to varying capacities on different bodies, so when choosing lenses for whatever body you buy I suggest that you ensure those lenses have all the functionalities that you want.

There are many very experienced and knowledgeable Nikon users here at CiC and you can get detailed comment on these nuances, if you ask.

(This is the result of Nikon's TR&D moving forward under a criterion of having backwards compatibility - for their new bodies to accept (nearly all) the range of their older lenses: unlike Canon for example where, when they began the EOS System of Cameras their older Series of Lenses won't mount).

> AF-S Zoom-Nikkor ED 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5G IF DX - ??? if this is the “kit lens” that you have, then it is a good optic: do not dismiss this lens. Do check to see its functionality with the new body that you buy.

*

Generally

> Photographing outdoor sports in light drizzle (rain) forget about the manufactures' hype of "Weather Sealing" (or whatever the Nikon Equivalent is of that).

Buy a 10 pack of thick plastic garbage bags and get some big elastic bands and make a rain cover - cut an hole in the bottom of the bag, stick the end of the lens's HOOD through the hole; use a UV filter; secure with the elastic band around the Lens's HOOD; stick your hands (and head if necessary) in the other end of the bag: alternatively, bring a friend and get them to hold your big golf umbrella over the camera

> Lighting for "Portraiture" - Do NOT buy continuous lights. Invest in Flash.

You can do a lot of good work with one dedicated Hot Shoe Flash Head and few Light Modifiers.

Re-read Dan K’s commentary.

(Without a treatise and as a general comment applicable to mostly all shooting scenarios - Continuous Lighting will render the SHUTTER SPEED as the deciding factor to whether or not the image will display SUBJECT MOTION BLUR. On the other hand, when using Flash, the Flash’s ‘Duration’ will render the Subject crisp and appear free of SUBJECT MOTION BLUR. The fact is even when people, are “sitting still” they move.)

("Dedicated" means that the Flash Head connects to and talks to the camera body and the TTL Metering System in the camera body. This connection might be PHYSICAL; such as the Hot-shoe on the camera or to the Hot-shoe via an Off Camera Cord; or by a RADIO or a LIGHT connection.)

> Any late model Nikon APS-C Body will give you a good start and depending upon your desires and budget will do you many years of service.

> When buying lenses buy fewer lenses but buy good modern lenses which will be useful for a range of purposes: including your LEARNING and your FUN.

If you do have the AF-S Zoom-Nikkor ED 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5G IF DX, then seriously consider using that lens (if it is fully functional on your new body) and allocating any extra money into a longer Zoom Lens to accommodate your Sport’s Photography desires.

If you choose to upgrade the lens that you have - I suggest something in a similar zoom range (17 to 55; 17 to 70 etc) BUT with a Non-Varying Maximum Aperture of F/2.8. There are third party lenses (e.g. Tamron, Sigma ,Tokina) as well as Nikon lenses that, fit these criteria.

This type of Zoom Lens is termed “A Standard Zoom Lens”. This terminology is because the Zoom’s Compass is roughly centred round the “Standard View” Focal Length (for an APS-C format camera that’s about a Focal Length of 35mm).

Note that this type of descriptor of a lens, is dependent upon the Camera’s Format, for example for a 135 Format Camera (aka “Full Frame”) a Standard Zoom Lens would be lenses like: 24 to 70; 28 to 75; 24 to 105, etc, because the “Standard Focal Length” for this format camera is about 50mm.

The Standard Zoom Lenses described above will be suitable for “Family Portraiture”. Don’t be sucked into the hype that you need “a special ‘Portrait Lens’".

It is unlikely that a Standard Zoom will be useful for the majority of Photos that you want to make of Field Sports: though maybe useful for small children who typically might play some sports on miniature fields; but it is likely that such a lens will be useful for sports like Basket Ball; Gymnastics; other mat sports - Judo/Wrestling etc; Dance; Theatre; School/Awards Functions; but much will depend upon how close you can get to the action for this lens to be really useful to you for this type of work.

BUT (important point) the salient point is, if you (now or later) invest in a fast Lens, you will have the capacity to shoot (indoor) sport in low level light.

("Fast Lens" means “Large Maximum Aperture” i.e. F.2.8. This means that you have greater capacity to pull reasonable to very good shots in Available Light (i.e. without using Flash). Additionally you will more likely sell and buy an upgraded camera model and less likely to sell a very good and very useful lens, which you'll likely keep to use on a newer camera.

> For Field Sports, if you stick with an APS-C Camera, you have a leverage of using the narrower Field of View of any given Focal Length projected onto the Camera’s (smaller) Sensor: that’s a more correct way of saying “you can leverage the ‘crop factor’ of your APS-C camera".

For example, if you buy a 70 to 200 zoom lens, then you can nicely FRAME two children playing soccer at a distance of about 80ft, but I need a 300mm lens to make the same shot using my Canon 5D series cameras . . . my point being that bang for buck and comparing like to like - even though a 70 to 200 F/2.8 Zoom Lens is expensive – a 300 F/2.8 Prime Lens is more expensive.

This is why so many (even serious Professional Sports Photographers) are now investing in one or two APS-C Model Cameras.

*

Summary

From what you have disclosed, to achieve all your goals my advice is:

> getting a new camera body is your first priority

> don’t rush to replace your existing lens - if it is the lens that I described - it is a good lens

> think seriously about a longer zoom lens for your Sports Photography interests: this need not necessarily be an F/2.8 lens IF you mostly will be shooting in sunlight: but probably will need to get to at least 200mm if you are thinking about Field Sports such as Football (all codes) Hockey etc.

> if considering a longer Zoom Lens e.g. a 70 to 200 - then think down-board about the lens's adaptability to a Tele-extender (aka Tele-converter). A good quality x1.4 Extender on a good quality 70 to 200 zoom can produce very good to excellent results

> Sports Arenas Indoors and under lights (e.g. Swimming, Ice Hockey) will require a fast lens and if you cannot get close to the action then a zoom to at least 200mm lens is the also a reasonable minimum criterion.

> with Lenses and Flash: buy once and buy good

> don’t sell your existing camera – use it until it dies: if you buy a second lens, you might be surprised how efficient (and fun) it is to use TWO cameras

WW

[billtils]

I would suggest a D7100 or D7200 camera, preferably factory refurbished (Nikon brings the camera back up to spec before allowing it to be sold.) I notice that Adorama is offering a D7200 body only refurbished for $740 right now -- which is a terrific bargain at about 1/3 off the usual price for a refurb D7200. I'd grab that and use the lens you already have until you decide that you want a particular lens for your specific needs after you have progressed a bit.

I'd completely agree with that advice Paul H.