A newbie needs some help - compact camera purchase decisions

I know I promised these comparison images a long time ago but I have finally got round to it. I went round Cambridge with my TZ3, FZ45, Canon Powershot G11 and LX3. I tried to get a variety of shooting conditions but it's an English winter so there's only so much you can do! The TZ3 is wha I've been using for a few years so it was something of a 'control' in this experiment, i.e., is it worth replacing? All cameras were set to Auto White Balance and all, apart from the TZ were set to ISO 80. The TZ was left to fend for itself in this area, as I have used it up to now. The FZ, LX and S11 all had intelligent exposure set to high.

After reading the comments above I took two images on each camera with maximum and minimum apertures. When examining these on the computer afterwards it was obvious that in all cases the maximum aperture settings gave the clearest result so I have only posted these, it'll make this a bit shorter! However, I will have to post as three articles as I'm limited to 20 images per post.

So, first up, a shot up into the dome of Clare College ante-chapel.

The TZ3:
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...1ClareDome.jpg
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...reDomecrop.jpg

The FZ45:
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...ClareDome1.jpg
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...reDomeCrop.jpg

The S11:
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...ClareDome1.jpg
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...eDome1crop.jpg

and the LX3:
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...ClareDome1.jpg
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...eDome1crop.jpg

The crops are at 100%.

My observations, clearly the TZ has much less shadow detail than the others due to its smaller aperture, 3.3. It also displays more noise but the photo was taken at ISO160. For the others the FZ has the worse noise, then the LX, then the S11 with next to none. The LX has a 2.0 maximum aperture compared to 2.8 on the FZ and S11 giving a little more detail in the highlights of the lantern. There is some chromatic aberration visible from the S11 which is not present on any of the Panasonics. Finally, and this was true of all photos, the Canon has a noticeably higher exposure than the Panasonics.

The next photo was also in Clare College ante-chapel but a pretty horizontal shot at the wall.

The TZ:
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...ClareArch2.jpg
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...eArch2crop.jpg

The FZ:
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...ClareArch1.jpg
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...eArch1crop.jpg

The S11:
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...ClareArch1.jpg
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...eArch1crop.jpg

and the LX:
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...ClareArch1.jpg
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...eArch1crop.jpg

Pretty similar observations as before, the FZ is again worst for noise while it is hard for me at least to tell the difference between the TZ, S11 and LX in this area, certainly the TZ looks better than the FZ. The TZ also has a slightly warmer AWB than the others.

Now for an outside shot, the back of Clare College.

TZ:
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...3ClareBack.jpg
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...reBackcrop.jpg

FZ:
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...3Clareback.jpg
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...rebackcrop.jpg

S11:
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...3ClareBack.jpg
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...reBackcrop.jpg

and LX:
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...3ClareBack.jpg
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...reBackcrop.jpg

Noise is similar on TZ and FZ, better on the LX and again none at all on the Canon S11. On the other hand, the Canon barrel distortion that I have read about in some reviews is noticeable here and in my opinion is much worse than that displayed by the Panasonic cameras.

The next photo I took as a test of highlights and shadows, a gap of sky between Clare chapel and King's chapel.

TZ:
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...twochapels.jpg
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...hapelscrop.jpg

FZ:
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...twochapels.jpg
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...hapelscrop.jpg

S11
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...Twochapels.jpg
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...hapelscrop.jpg

and LX
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...twochapels.jpg
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...hapelscrop.jpg

Noise is the same pattern as before, worst on the TZ and FZ, better on the LZ and none on the S11. The TZ is washed out by the highlight to a greater extent than the others while the Canon displays both the barrel distortion and the chromatic aberration noted above. Something else I'm noticing is that the AWB on the LX is slightly greener than the others.

It wouldn't be Cambridge without King's College Chapel so here it is, amazing what a 24mm lens can get in!

TZ
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...123/TZ6KCC.jpg
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...TZ6KCCcrop.jpg

FZ
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...123/FZ6KCC.jpg
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...FZ6KCCcrop.jpg

S11
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...23/S116KCC.jpg
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...116KCCcrop.jpg

and LX
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...123/LX6KCC.jpg
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...LX6KCCcrop.jpg

Most noticeable here for me was the better Dynamic range on the LX than the other cameras. The S11 again displays the worst barrel distortion but the least noise. There is some noise on the TZ while in this shot the LX looks worse to me, about the same as the FZ. There is also more blurring at the edges on the FZ.

After lunch (!) I took four or five comparitive shots in St John's but I think one will suffice, I don't want to bore you too much.

This is New Court in John's at about 3.30pm so twilight.

TZ
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...JohnsBacks.jpg
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...sBackscrop.jpg

FZ
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...ackofJohns.jpg
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...fJohnscrop.jpg

S11
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...ackofJohns.jpg
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...fJohnscrop.jpg

LX
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...ackofJohns.jpg
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...fJohnscrop.jpg

Well, the Dynamic Range is clearly worst on the TZ and best on the LX. Otherwise the TZ is pretty good and noise is in fact worse in the LX and on the FZ. Again, the Canon displays almost none.

So, overall, a few obvious things and a few surprises for me. The Canon S11 takes very clear if sometimes overexposed photos (this can be dealt with!) that display no noise. I wonder if this is something in the camera as it is so much better than the Panasonics? On the other hand, that barrel distortion is a bind, particularly when I'm photographing buildings most of the time. The difference between its 28mm lens and the 24mm lens of the LX is also rather noticeable, I haven't forgotten that recent incarnations of the TZ stretch to 25mm.

The TZ stood up to its Panasonic brethren pretty well in terms of noise, certainly as good as the FZ and sometimes better than the LX. On the other hand, its smaller aperture and lack of intelligent exposure result in much poorer dynamic range than these cameras.
The FZ consistently produced the noisiest images while the LX, despite the large aperture was sometimes pretty bad in this area as well. It did however have the best dynamic range.

I did take a comparative zoom shot on the TZ (10x) and the FZ (10x and 24x).

TZ
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...szoomKings.jpg
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...mKingscrop.jpg

FZ 10x
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...szoomKings.jpg
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...mKingscrop.jpg

FZ 24x
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...szoomKings.jpg
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...mKingscrop.jpg

Pretty much the same with the noise slightly better on the TZ.

It's clear to me then that unless I need a 24x zoom the FZ isn't really worth it, particularly given its bulk and weight. It's also clear that the LX isn't perhaps quite as good as I've heard in terms of low-light images, the noise surprised me to be honest. Stupidly of course I took all these images as JPEGs as I was a few in before I realised and wanted consistency. Nevertheless, for it to be sometimes worse than the TZ... If only the Canon didn't have that barrel distortion, not only does it have beautifully clear images but it is also rather nice to use, everything clicks solidly into place.

After this test things were slightly unclear in my mind. However, as part of my course I spent the last few days in Rome with the LX3 and the TZ3. I was flying Ryanair so had to take the smallest with me! Similar observations were made, the LX3 sometimes produced a disturbing amount of noise but I have to say I got quite attached to its neat size, wide lens and manual operation. However, I did sometimes need to pull out the TZ3 for zoom shots as the LX3's 2.8x is not great for details of column capitals.

SO... after all of that I think that what I will do is return the FZ and the Canon and keep the LX. I will however also upgrade my TZ3 to a TZ9 which was a 25mm lens, intelligent exposure, manual operation and no GPS like the TZ10! If the Canon S11 didn't have that barrel distortion I think I might have swung that way but it is rather too much for me.

I am however open to suggestions, criticisms and anything else you might want to throw. As I said in an earlier post I have never done anything like this before so have probably made quite a few mistakes along the way. Do let me know what you think!
David

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by David Valinsky

I did take a comparative zoom shot on the TZ (10x) and the FZ (10x and 24x).

TZ
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...szoomKings.jpg
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...mKingscrop.jpg

FZ 10x
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...szoomKings.jpg
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...mKingscrop.jpg

FZ 24x
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...szoomKings.jpg
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...mKingscrop.jpg

Pretty much the same with the noise slightly better on the TZ.

It's clear to me then that unless I need a 24x zoom the FZ isn't really worth it, particularly given its bulk and weight. It's also clear that the LX isn't perhaps quite as good as I've heard in terms of low-light images, the noise surprised me to be honest. Stupidly of course I took all these images as JPEGs as I was a few in before I realised and wanted consistency. Nevertheless, for it to be sometimes worse than the TZ... If only the Canon didn't have that barrel distortion, not only does it have beautifully clear images but it is also rather nice to use, everything clicks solidly into place.

After this test things were slightly unclear in my mind. However, as part of my course I spent the last few days in Rome with the LX3 and the TZ3. I was flying Ryanair so had to take the smallest with me! Similar observations were made, the LX3 sometimes produced a disturbing amount of noise but I have to say I got quite attached to its neat size, wide lens and manual operation. However, I did sometimes need to pull out the TZ3 for zoom shots as the LX3's 2.8x is not great for details of column capitals.

SO... after all of that I think that what I will do is return the FZ and the Canon and keep the LX. I will however also upgrade my TZ3 to a TZ9 which was a 25mm lens, intelligent exposure, manual operation and no GPS like the TZ10! If the Canon S11 didn't have that barrel distortion I think I might have swung that way but it is rather too much for me.

I am however open to suggestions, criticisms and anything else you might want to throw. As I said in an earlier post I have never done anything like this before so have probably made quite a few mistakes along the way. Do let me know what you think!
David

---

If I am not mistaken your original problem was noise in your images and it looks like you have experienced this again with two or more of your cameras. Your planning seemed like a good idea, min/max aperture but you may have overlooked the exposure times or exposure compensation and the effect it would have on your images. Hopefully you took additional photographs at shutter speeds to see if it made a difference in the shadow areas.

You seem an ideal candidate for the new Panasonic GF2 due in January or even the GF1 which is just as good but has knobs instead of touch screen.