Wide lens recommendation

[Evertking]

I am looking for a wider lens for landscapes and Astro stuff and on a budget. The first lens that caught my eye was the rokinon 14mm f2.8 but was reading that it can be difficult getting ND filters for that one. Then I am left with canons 24,28 and 35 non L lens. I was thinking that maybe someone owns these or has used some of these could help out. I will just use it for landscapes, night Photography and would love to get NDs for LE day shots.

[rpcrowe]

I had an EF 20mm f/2.8 Canon which was a pretty decent lens at a relatively low price. I got rid of it after I bought the 17-55mm f/2.8 IS lens to use on my crop cameras. Of course, the 20mm Canon f/2.8, being an EF mount, could be used on a full frame camera also. The 20mm Canon lenses seem as if they are selling for about $250 USD used on eBay.

[Stagecoach]

I am looking for a wider lens for landscapes and Astro stuff and on a budget. The first lens that caught my eye was the rokinon 14mm f2.8 but was reading that it can be difficult getting ND filters for that one. Then I am left with canons 24,28 and 35 non L lens. I was thinking that maybe someone owns these or has used some of these could help out. I will just use it for landscapes, night Photography and would love to get NDs for LE day shots.

Mike,

I recently went through this exercise, although for my Nikons.

The first thing I would suggest is that 'Astro stuff' should be a priority consideration in determining what to buy.

Put very very simply the performance of the lens is going to be more noticeable if you are trying to get round stars towards the edges of the frame than whats at the edges of a land/seascape.

As for filters (square type) I believe most major makes are now producing the adaptors for use with non-threaded lenses.

Edit added : For clarity, discussion regarding lens performance when taking 'Astro' images (which could be landscapes including non trailing stars) on the web from those that do it well prioritises the lenses ability to reduce what makes stars look like 'seagulls' towards the edges. It is discussed that this is to do with the lenses ability to deal with certain abberations for which some perform better than others, it is not just to do with distortion.

[Manfred M]

1. Ultra-wides will all pull in at the corners, so I would suggest that these are not all that suitable for "astro stuff".

2. Ultra-wides are generally too wide for landscape work per se, as one tends to end up with little more than a lot of foreground and a lot of sky, if one is not careful. Unless one positions something in the foreground, these images end up being rather boring.

Demonstrating what I mean, this is a round missile launch tube taken with a high end (Nikkor f/2.8 14-24mm) ultra wide angle lens using a 14mm focal length. The "pulling in" at the corners is pretty obvious.




Same lens at 14mm doing a landscape. Shooting with a lot of foreground material with a hill as the subject; this works.




Anything wider than 24mm on a FF camera gets downright tricky when shooting. UWA lenses are probably the hardest photographic lenses to use well.

[rpcrowe]

Amen to Manfred's comment on ultra-wide lenses and landscape photography. IMO, landscape with UWA lenses is a pretty specialized field and demands a significant foreground subject. I have several UWA lenses but, normally shoot with 17mm (equivalent to about 27mm on a full frame) on a crop camera as my widest...

[Thlayle]

Mike,

I have the Rokinon 14 mm and for me it is essentially a special lens for night/astro photography. I like it for panoramic Milky Way shots. It has no coma distortion, something you won't always find correction for even with some of the high-end, expensive lenses, and it gets a lot of sky, which is just what I am after with those shots.

For other landscapes, I like it when shooting a subject up close & low to the ground, but other than that I will say I have found it much wider than I need in landscapes, and I am shooting with a Canon crop sensor camera.

Rokinon's 14mm is great for night sky shots, and it is a lower cost item in the scheme of things. Just don't expect it to do everything in landscape shooting.

[Manfred M]

I am shooting with a Canon crop sensor camera.

Randy - as you are shooting a Canon crop sensor with a 1.6 crop factor, two things are happening:

1. The 14mm lens is giving you the same FoV as a 22.4 focal length would give you on a full frame camera; and

2. As the sensor is smaller, coma is likely to be reduced versus what one would see on a full frame sensor. This issue is more apparent at the peripheries of the frame.

Mike is shooting a full frame camera, so your findings will not be a good mapping to your experience.

[Thlayle]

Thanks, Manfred. My comments were of course based on my own experiences.

I would add here though that I have followed a number of well published night photographers. The Rokinon 14 mm was highly recommended based on their usage with the Canon FF cameras and it was the coma correction that was a real high point for them. So apparently it works for them on their FF Canons.

I have also seen a post in this forum some time ago by someone using a brand new premium Canon wide angle lens, and it had very bad coma distortion.

So I don't know what to think, based on your comments. The 14 mm is the ONLY lens I have tried on my that has not shown the coma distortion. That said, I admit I don't own many lenses and mainly I am referring to my original wide angle zoom, kit lens -- and it had those wicked little flying saucers around the top and corners.

I guess my suggestion for Mike, if still interested in the Rokinon as a possible choice, is to look up Royce Bair (Into the Night Photography) and see what he says about it nowadays.

[Manfred M]

Not sure which version you have: Rokinon is one of the many labels Samyang users.

https://www.lenstip.com/200.11-Lens_...l_Summary.html

https://www.lenstip.com/239.11-Lens_...C_Summary.html

[Thlayle]

I have the newer version. I don't remember hearing about the vignetting on the FF. Not such a bad review but it doesn't inspire confidence. As I was saying -- no coma distortion. Based on my inquires, it seems the coma distortion correction is often left out of many lens builds. And those little flying saucers are real deal breaker in night shots of the stars.

[William W]

I am looking for a wider lens for landscapes and Astro stuff and on a budget. The first lens that caught my eye was the rokinon 14mm f2.8 but was reading that it can be nthinking that maybe someone owns these or has used some of these could help out. I will just use it for landscapes, night Photography and would love to get NDs for LE day shots.

Wider than what? (pertains to my last comments)

***

I use Canon EOS 5D Series cameras and I have (the latest) Samyang 14mm F/2.8 ED AS IF UMC:

It is not the easiest lens in my kit to use; that’s said from my biased opinion predicated on my primary Photography, by its nature is/was ‘shooting on the hop’ rather than devoting time to set up the one shot.

That said it is a wonderful lens and in the ‘value for money’ stakes it is right up near the top of the list.

Note that it is a completely manual functioning lens. Focus, Aperture (and TTL Metering if used) are a manual functions. Don’t dismiss the significance of the procedural time that it takes to set a shot manually: especially do not dismiss the rigour required to set the Camera Viewpoint accurately when using such a Wide Angle Lens.

I agree that for most shots using such a wide angle lens the COMPOSITION usually comprises a dominate FOREGROUND Element, this general feature of Composition with an UWA Lens is not only limited to Landscape Genre.

Typically with such a wide angle lens one should use a Tripod, Head (and level).

Apropos “Astro Stuff”

- firstly (and broadly) that can be divided into TWO subsections:
a) NO Star Trails
b) Star Trails

If you require NO Star Trails, then important considerations when selecting the lens are: “wide angle but also clean at a very fast aperture”. And the desire of the camera is “very clean at mid-high range ISO.”

The above is where I believe the Samyang (Rokinon) 14mm F/2.8 will fall down a little bit, and I am assuming you are using an EOS 6D.

For a long time the EF 24 F/1.4 L USM was arguably the best lens for this type of Photography; now replaced by the MkII version, the newer version has much benefit. Sigma has an ART series in the same vein. The salient point is, if you do not want star trails then the Shutter Speed has to be kept to a minimum.

(in simple terms) The formulae for setting the maximum acceptable Shutter Speed (i.e. ‘longest shutter speed’) is factored by the LATITUDE where the camera is located and the angle at which the camera is pointed.

(again in simple terms), typically we are looking at a Shutter Speed of around 15 seconds if we are located between the Tropics of Capricorn and Cancer, to keep that Shutter Speed we need to bump the ISO, but to keep the ISO as low as possible we need to shoot with a large aperture… ergo F/1.4 is king – and even with very good high ISO performance cameras, F/1.4 is a really handy lens to have.

On the other hand IF the Night Skies Photos are to be all about Star Trails – then F/1.4 is not nearly such a necessity.

I do not use my Samyang lens for Night Skies: I do no make a lot of Night Skies Images anyway but when I do I use my Canon 24mm Prime for that task.

Note well that there is a significant difference in the performance between the different model RELEASES of the Rokinon/Samyang 14mm lens – the latest versions are significantly better.

I would not choose to use an ND Filter on my Samyang 14mm to make Long Exposure Day-time shots: that to me is just way too much effort for little extra gain, notwithstanding the possibility of ghost images. I have an Hoya x400 (about 8⅓ Stops ND) and it is very simple to plonk that on to my 24 prime or my W/A zoom for the task of daytime long exposure.

EF 20 F/2.8

Like Richard, I also used an EF20 F/2.8. That was several years ago on Film Bodies and I found it a very useful lens. I can not make any comment about its use for “Astro Stuff” but for Landscapes and Portraiture I found the lens very good, noted that typically I would used the lens between F/5.6 and F/8 – it was not in my kit to be used as a “low light lens” – so my experience does not extend to comment on how the lens performs wide open, but my expectation is that it would not be the best budget choice for “Astro Stuff” because it wouldn’t be the crispest rendition of the Stars: but for Landscapes and other Nightcscapes, I agree 100% with Richard that a used copy is worth investigating.

Non-L EF 24mm lenses

Note that there are two – the newer with IS and the older.

I have not used the newer canon 24mm F/2.8 with IS, so I make no direct comment on the lens but reports are it is very clean and a good performer, so t,hat lens if budget permits might be an option for you. The IS can very useful for Nightscapes and also for day-time Landscapes, but for "Astro Stuff" you'd be using a Tripod.

The older model is old but is excellent value for use on a 135 Format camera (aka "Full Frame") when the lens is used around F/5.6~8. Typically the moderate to more expensive zooms will kill that lens and IMO it is not really a ‘value for money’ option for you – considering also that there is a big difference between 20mm and 24mm, so if you want wide angle on a budget, I think that the20mm F/2.8 would be a better choice than the (old model) non- L 24mm.

The EF28 F/1.8

I do not like this lens when used on a 135 Format Camera (aka “Full Frame”).

For me, the key objective of buying a fast lens is to use a fast lens and my experience is that this is one of the worst Canon pro-sumer lenses when used wide open: it however is reasonable value for money as a Fast Prime lens for an APS-Camera.

The EF 28 F/2.8

Like its buddy (the EF24/2.8) this lens is old but a good design and makes good images at around F/8, but similarly, the modern zooms cream it.

The two EF 35 F/2

I have the older (non IS). It presents very good value for money. I have not used the newer IS version. But frankly, 35mm is too long for “Astro Stuff” and if you seek only one Prime lens for Landscape and similar work, then my advice is to go wider than 35mm and crop a bit if and when necessary.

Street and Location Portraiture (music clubs and bars) is the main use for my 35/2, because it is so small and light weight.

** *

Wider than what?

From my memory of previous conversations you have an EOS 6D and an EF 135 F/2 L USM. . .

What other lenses (if any) do you have?


The reason that I ask is because it occurs to me that you might be a new-comer to this Photography Journey and with the experiences of the hindsight view of my own purchase errors and the broad experience of talking to thousands of others who have made similar purchase errors – it would bode well for you to think more about the FINAL KIT that you want to build and how each part will perform its job within a comprehensive and functional kit, rather than buying INDIVIDUAL bits and pieces to address (isolated) individual needs.

For example, the alarm that is ringing in my head, on the limited information provided, is to firstly ask how serious and how long term do you think that this “Astro Stuff” will be – because it is quite specialized if you really get into it (and IMO it really does take a mindset and dedication something like those who really get into MacroPhotography).

If you think that this "Astro Stuff" is a genre that you “want to explore” and “see where it takes me” then possibly you’d be better of NOT buying a dedicated lens for it first off, especially if you think that you WILL be interested in making Landscape Photos for several years – in this case a second hand 16 to 35/2.8L or perhaps a second hand 17 to 40/4L might be the best value for money purchase for you at this time.

WW

Addendum:

FYI - This below is the Samyang 14mm on a 5D Series camera.
Similar to Manfred's sample of an Ultra Wide Angle Lens, I included a dominate element in the foreground (one element only rather than a cluster of many).

To do that is not as easy as it might seem.

That Flag was very close to the camera and the alignment of the camera's viewpoint is critical to minimize time correcting a misalignment error. As is the judicious choice of Aperture and the Plane of Sharp Focus - all done manually.


North Cronulla Beach 2017

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