Panning Dogs

[Arjung]

Do you like this photo? The only thing sharp seems to be the dog's eye and her lower jaw. Or do you think it is too blurry?

Nikon D800; 28-300 3.5-5.6
1/25 @ 300mm, f25 ISO 800

[ScoutR]

I like this shot a lot except for the strong vertical movement that can be seen like a double exposure along the top of the dog. Not sure if that is preventable or is a matter of luck to get a shot that does not show the vertical blur. Nice job on the horizontal panning.

[Manfred M]

In general, getting a panning shot of something that is moving smoothly; like a car or bicycle rolling along the street generally works much better because the pan only has to be in one direction. Here you have to deal with the motion along two axes.

The issue I have is your camera settings. Why ISO 800? That forced you to shoot at f/25. Normally one would cut the ISO to a lower value and use the camera at a more reasonable aperture (f/8 to f/11).

[William W]

To answer your question, I think it is too blurry: specifically (as mentioned) the vertical blur is quite distracting.

***

If you want to attain a panning shot, with blur, of a dog running at pace, then you need to address the nature of the dog's movement.

One main consideration is most (all?) dogs have a vertical movement in their front and hind quarters when running at pace: that is what I have noticed.

I am NOT a dog expert, but I expect this is a common physical trait with all dogs , BUT maybe this trait varies in the relative amount of vertical motion with breed and size?

I think to minimize the Vertical Motion Blur, yet still attain some Horizontal Panning Blur you need these main elements:

> get the breed and size of dog which exhibits the least vertical motion when running at pace - I have no ideas which are the more suitable

> get closer to the action, i.e. NOT use 300mm FL, but use a shorter FL and get closer to the DOG - suggest 85mm to 100mm is a good starting point on a D800 and frame the dog such that it occupies about half of the frame - reducing the Camera to Subject distance means that you need to pan through a larger arc, for any given Shutter Speed

> make the background lots of INDIVIDUAL Vertical Planes i.e. NOT with the camera looking downward on the dog such that the Background is the grass on which the Dog is running, but better, something like a Fence or Hedge in the background

> try a range of Shutter Speeds, I think that 1/25s is a good starting point

> use an Aperture around F/8 - not only for the ISO reason mentioned by Manfred, but for DoF reasons too

> adjust the DISTANCE from the Dog to the Background - 10 metres would be a good start; the relationship of the TWO distances - Camera to Subject :: Subject to Background will effect the appearance of the Horizontal PANNING Blur, for any given Shutter Speed.

WW

[george013]

May I add.
Set the camera on the machine gun, continuous shooting. You might get a shot where the head is in rest. That will be impossible with a single shot.

George

[William W]

Continuous Shooting is worthwhile trying, but I am not keen on the use of the phrase "impossible with a singe shot".

I make/made a very good living shooting sport: much of which was sports comprising rhythmic motion, for example, competitive pool swimming.

I suspect that dogs' gait is basically rhythmic - the point is: using a single shot when learning is actually a very good technique, because it can force the learning of the particular beat of the rhythm.

WW

[george013]

Continuous Shooting is worthwhile trying, but I am not keen on the use of the phrase "impossible with a singe shot".

I make/made a very good living shooting sport: much of which was sports comprising rhythmic motion, for example, competitive pool swimming.

I suspect that dogs' gait is basically rhythmic - the point is: using a single shot when learning is actually a very good technique, because it can force the learning of the particular beat of the rhythm.

WW

Did you compare the speed between the rhytmic motion in pool swimming and that head of that dog? Let's say for me it's impossible.
I just discovered the benefits of continuous and AF-C. I must say I like it.

George

[rpcrowe]

IMO, there is no reason not to shoot on your highest frame rate burst mode when using a digital camera. There certainly was a very definite valid reason for avoiding burst mode in film days; the cost of the film + processing... I shoot my burst action shots at about 10 frames per second on my 7D2 camera and the highest burst rate achievable on my other cameras. However, although I love my Canon 5D2 for portrait work, the auto-focus and max burst rate seems pretty clunky in comparison to my 7D2...

I am wondering if your lens has Image Stabilization (Nikon's jiggle stop equivalent) and, if, in fact you used the stabilization. My 100-400mm f/4.4-5.6L IS II lens has three stabilization modes. 1: for stabilizing images of sedentary subjects, 2: for stabilizing images of subjects you are panning - stabilization is only for the vertical plane, 3. Stabilization for erratically moving subjects... However, IMO, when shooting a subject that is moving in two planes (that is moving forward and moving up and down) 1/25 second is too slow of a shutter speed... However, I use IS, even when shooting at high shutter speeds especially when panning...

As far as Bill's comment, I think that a larger or more long legged dog might be easier to shoot at a slower shutter speed while panning than a smaller or shorter legged dog because, the larger and longer legged dog's body doesn't bob up and down as greatly with each stride. That seems to be the case as I look at them running.

I have not experimented with this concept but, as soon as the unusually hot weather passes (should only be a couple of days) I will try shooting different size and breeds of dogs while panning.

I have available my tall 55-pound goldendoodle with long poodle like legs who runs with a long fluid stride. A 14-pound rough coated Jack Russell Terrier. I have noticed how smooth the Jack Russell runs and have been planning to photograph her running... Another dog who might be interesting to shoot is a little 10-pound Shih Tzu with remarkably short legs; who definitely bobs up and down when running. I will try them at different shutter speeds and at different angles and will also try other dogs I have in my home at the time (either rescues or my own Crowe dogs)...

The one really nice thing about having a very large yard and always having a large number of dogs at my home is that I always have subjects for experiments that I plan and also have room to put the ideas into practice..

I have not panned running dogs at slower shutter speeds. I usually shoot at 1/1,000 second or so like this:



1/1,000 second, f/4, ISO 400 at 116mm on a crop sensor Canon 7D

[Shadowman]

Nikon has vibration reduction in two modes: normal/active. Normal is used for standard shooting such as sports and active is designed for shooting from moving vehicle. I use it often especially when shooting under low light conditions as it supposedly gives you a stop or two on shutter speeds.

[William W]

Did you compare the speed between the rhytmic motion in pool swimming and that head of that dog?

No never compared dogs' running motion with swimmers' motion.

But, long ago shot quite a bit of Horse Racing (not Show Jumping but Racing), there appears a similar Vertical movement.

More recently and easier to find an example, it's worthy to note that highly skilled and fast Buttery (and to a lesser extent Breaststroke) Swimmers have a comparatively rapid vertical movement of their head, relative to their forward motion and there is only a short moment of time when the head is still in the Vertical Plane, however, importantly that Vertical Movement is at a beat. If the rhythm is haphazard then they are not as efficient and not as fast.

Sample image used Single Shot Mode, the Photographer Shutter Release was following the swimmer's beat:



I'd expect that dogs and other animals generally will typically, by nature, default to their running motion being the most efficient that it can be.

In any case, it isn't necessarily a debate about using Continuous Shooting or not using Continuous Shooting Mode.

The point I was making was about LEARNING and opening oneself up to learning new and useful SKILLS.


Learning the rhythm of the Subjects' motion can be and probably is for all sports & motion Photography a useful element to:
a) be aware of; and
b) learn to use

I think it would be very difficult for any Photographer to even begin to appreciate the elements of Beats and Rhythm in any Subject Motion Photography if the Photographer restricts themselves only to use Continuous Shooting Mode: that's tantamount to leaving 'chance' to be the defining element as to whether the shot is made or not.

That isn't to say that Continuous Shooting can't be used in conjunction with following a rhythm (or TWO or THREE rhythms) - it can.

As another example - there are three rhythms that I use to make this type of shot, below.

> Firstly the practiced reaction beat of my eye to the start light then to my finger on the Shutter Release;
> Secondly the beat of my DSLR's Continuous Shooting Mode
> Thirdly the beat of the Reaction Time of a National Swimmer

In this situation the second frame is always the keeper:



You might ask, "Why not just use Single Shot Mode and delay the Shutter Release for a 'prescribed period' ?" - well I could, but that would mean learning and then practicing how long exactly is that 'prescribed period'.

In this case it is much easier to use my innate (natural) reaction time, (which varies not much), and the disciplined reaction time of top level athletes (which varies not much) and the camera's Continuous Shooting Mode Function (which doesn't vary at specific Shutter Speed).

This all amounts to less thinking when under pressure and I am waiting for the Start Light to Flash after the Starter calls "Take Your Mark" (a period or time that DOES vary - especially for Backstroke).

WW

[Cantab]

I have not experimented with this concept but, as soon as the unusually hot weather passes (should only be a couple of days) I will try shooting different size and breeds of dogs while panning.

Richard, I'll look forward to the results of your experimental testing.

Your comment about "unusually hot weather" caught my eye. We had, for us, unusually hot weather this past summer but that's now history up here. We've had the first of our wet and windy fall storms.

[Arjung]

I am on AF-C and in burst mode

[Arjung]

IMO, there is no reason not to shoot on your highest frame rate burst mode when using a digital camera. There certainly was a very definite valid reason for avoiding burst mode in film days; the cost of the film + processing... I shoot my burst action shots at about 10 frames per second on my 7D2 camera and the highest burst rate achievable on my other cameras. However, although I love my Canon 5D2 for portrait work, the auto-focus and max burst rate seems pretty clunky in comparison to my 7D2...

I am wondering if your lens has Image Stabilization (Nikon's jiggle stop equivalent) and, if, in fact you used the stabilization. My 100-400mm f/4.4-5.6L IS II lens has three stabilization modes. 1: for stabilizing images of sedentary subjects, 2: for stabilizing images of subjects you are panning - stabilization is only for the vertical plane, 3. Stabilization for erratically moving subjects... However, IMO, when shooting a subject that is moving in two planes (that is moving forward and moving up and down) 1/25 second is too slow of a shutter speed... However, I use IS, even when shooting at high shutter speeds especially when panning...

As far as Bill's comment, I think that a larger or more long legged dog might be easier to shoot at a slower shutter speed while panning than a smaller or shorter legged dog because, the larger and longer legged dog's body doesn't bob up and down as greatly with each stride. That seems to be the case as I look at them running.

I have not experimented with this concept but, as soon as the unusually hot weather passes (should only be a couple of days) I will try shooting different size and breeds of dogs while panning.

I have available my tall 55-pound goldendoodle with long poodle like legs who runs with a long fluid stride. A 14-pound rough coated Jack Russell Terrier. I have noticed how smooth the Jack Russell runs and have been planning to photograph her running... Another dog who might be interesting to shoot is a little 10-pound Shih Tzu with remarkably short legs; who definitely bobs up and down when running. I will try them at different shutter speeds and at different angles and will also try other dogs I have in my home at the time (either rescues or my own Crowe dogs)...

The one really nice thing about having a very large yard and always having a large number of dogs at my home is that I always have subjects for experiments that I plan and also have room to put the ideas into practice..

I have not panned running dogs at slower shutter speeds. I usually shoot at 1/1,000 second or so like this:



1/1,000 second, f/4, ISO 400 at 116mm on a crop sensor Canon 7D

I totally agree with all that you say. I shoot in burst mode with continuous focus. If I want tack sharp images of my dogs jumping around I only look at shutter speeds to 1/1000 or higher.

Try panning something that moves both horizontally and vertically (unlike a car which has smooth motion). As you drop shutter speed, getting a decent image is more difficult. When you do get a good image, the image is likely to be stunning

[Arjung]

In general, getting a panning shot of something that is moving smoothly; like a car or bicycle rolling along the street generally works much better because the pan only has to be in one direction. Here you have to deal with the motion along two axes.

The issue I have is your camera settings. Why ISO 800? That forced you to shoot at f/25. Normally one would cut the ISO to a lower value and use the camera at a more reasonable aperture (f/8 to f/11).

I have been experimenting with pans and motion blurs with dogs for a few days and am trying to figure out the ideal shutter speed to pan. What I have learnt is there is no ideal shutter speed to pan at, it depends on the subject movement and your distance from the subject and how much blur you would like to create.

Assuming you have a human covering your entire screen, and if you want to pan a human being walking, 1/5 can give you some excellent results. However if you want to pan the human being running, 1/5 is likely to give you blurs as you will not be able to freeze both the vertical and horizontal movements.

One of the reasons for me to be at 800 & f25 in this shot is I have been varying my shutter speed between 1/25 & 1/250, depending on what I want to shoot. At times I am trying to capture 2 dogs running simultaneously, which requires a higher shutter speed. Interesting motion blurs (one dog stationery and the other running) requires me to use shutters upto 1/250. Shutter Priority gives me the most flexibility to move from 1/25 to 1/250 with a couple of rotations of the dial. I find this the quickest and most flexible.

Yes I do realise that I can get far better results at 100 and f8, but by the time I change my camera settings, I would have missed the action. There is a tradeoff in capturing action, and this tradeoff is what I have used in this instance.

[Arjung]

May I add.
Set the camera on the machine gun, continuous shooting. You might get a shot where the head is in rest. That will be impossible with a single shot.

George

I only shoot in AF-C mode, the camera is also in burst mode

[george013]

I totally agree with all that you say. I shoot in burst mode with continuous focus. If I want tack sharp images of my dogs jumping around I only look at shutter speeds to 1/1000 or higher.

Try panning something that moves both horizontally and vertically (unlike a car which has smooth motion). As you drop shutter speed, getting a decent image is more difficult. When you do get a good image, the image is likely to be stunning

That would be what's called the lucky shot.
Maybe a little faster shutter speed might freeze the head solely and leave the others parts as they're now. I don't think your model will protest trying it again. Did you try the dog running to you?

I never shoot in AF-C mode except occasional circumstances.

George

[Arjung]

Nikon has vibration reduction in two modes: normal/active. Normal is used for standard shooting such as sports and active is designed for shooting from moving vehicle. I use it often especially when shooting under low light conditions as it supposedly gives you a stop or two on shutter speeds.

Yes thanks, I am in the Active mode

[Stagecoach]

Do you like this photo? The only thing sharp seems to be the dog's eye and her lower jaw. Or do you think it is too blurry?

Nikon D800; 28-300 3.5-5.6
1/25 @ 300mm, f25 ISO 800

I'm afraid it does not work at all for me as there is far too much of the dogs body with motion blur. You need to get some of the body/legs sharp as well.

I would also suggest using a wider aperture which will help blur the background more.


There were a number of threads relating to panning race horses a couple of years back with some excellent discussion and examples.

[Arjung]

That would be what's called the lucky shot.
Maybe a little faster shutter speed might freeze the head solely and leave the others parts as they're now. I don't think your model will protest trying it again. Did you try the dog running to you?

I never shoot in AF-C mode except occasional circumstances.

George

George,
I have tried panning the Jack Russel Terrier all the way from 1/80 to 1/25. The 1st image is @ 1/80 and the second @ 1/25. I prefer the results of the second image as the motion blur is better.

If I have the dog running towards me, I will only get blurs using a low shutter speed.

I only shoot in AF-C as I mainly shoot wildlife photography. If I try to focus lock, recompose my shot and the animal moves, I have no shot

[Arjung]

I'm afraid it does not work at all for me as there is far too much of the dogs body with motion blur. You need to get some of the body/legs sharp as well.

There were a number of threads relating to panning race horses a couple of years back with some excellent discussion and examples.

Thanks, will check them out