Focus stacking question

[skitterbug]

This might be the dumbest question ever but when one is doing focus stacking, live view has to be in play, right? And the use of a tripod? I'd think it would be very difficult to try and do this hand holding and viewing through a viewfinder or is that possible too depending on the software that's used for the stacking process?

Just mulling around how this process can be done.

[Stagecoach]

I used to follow the work of a macro photographer Sandy who could hand hold and take stacks of 4 to 5 slices of close ups of such critters as bees producing exceptionally good results

As for live view, I have never used it producing stacks, but there's no reason not to that I can think of other than it's not going to give you equal depth slices.

[Geoff F]

You need very careful focusing on key areas, Sandy, so I always use the through the lens viewfinder to make sure I am perfectly manually focused on the required bits. I certainly couldn't work in sufficient fine tuned detail of my focus from live view.

Some cheap cameras, without through the lens viewing, require the use of the rear viewing screen otherwise you can get a problem with the view from a basic off centre viewer not matching the actual scene. For instance the top of your shot being cut off.

Regarding focusing. When taking just 2 or 3 shots for the stack, on a standard tripod with ball head and shooting literally in the field, I tend to work from easily identified key edges and move my focus adjustment from one edge to another. However, when some people are putting a lot of images into their stack they use a slide head on their tripod and take shots at fixed points.

[Black Pearl]

You're typically manually focusing a stack so the viewfinder or rear LCD make little difference. I tripod is a huge help and makes the alignment of the stack for easier and the results more predictable.

[skitterbug]

Hi Grahame - I know I couldn't keep the camera in the same place using a handhold technique. I'd think even a slight move of it would make a difference in the outcome of the stack! The person you knew must have had total concentration and been able to stay "rock solid".

Hi Geoff - I believe the Mark II stated that what I saw is what I got when I take a photo so I it seems that I can use either screen for focusing. I was thinking though that if I had the camera mounted on the tripod, it might be just as easy to look at the live view screen rather than through that tiny focus area. Guess this will be part of the experimenting that I will need to do.

Hi Robin - I see that the theme of the replies is having a tripod. I have one but I can't say that it is top notch. I received it as a gift and have used it many times but I find that it doesn't do well for heavy equipment. Also some of the tightening areas are not keeping things from moving anymore. So I reckon there is going to have to be another investment made at some point.And another decision will need to be made - best tripod, head type, etc. that would make a decent purchase.

Thank you for your replies!

[DanK]

It depends. Macro photos of what?

In the case of field photos of bugs, I never use either the lcd or a tripod. There isn't time for the latter. I usually use a monopod. I usually prefocus the lens for the closeness/amount of magnification I want and move the camera (rocking on the monopod) to achieve focus. I don't generally stack bug shots because I am not steady enough to get the frames within the range of misalignment that my software can handle, but I know a number of macro photographers that do this routinely, even at magnifications far about 1:1.

For studio macro and other macros of things that stay put (like flowers or fungi), I use a tripod, stack images, and focus with the lcd. It's not necessary to use the lcd, but if your camera allows you to magnify a selected area, it is much easier to obtain accurate focus that way than with the viewfinder.

[skitterbug]

Hi Dan - I appreciate your thoughts and how you go about capturing photos! It gives me more ideas about how to try this format of photography.

I know I am not steady enough to take more than one photo of anything and then be able to snap more photos for a stack - without some sort of aid - be it monopod or tripod.

It makes me admire those who are able to take sharp macro pictures even more! (Brian for one)

Thank you!

[george013]

Hi Dan - I appreciate your thoughts and how you go about capturing photos! It gives me more ideas about how to try this format of photography.

I know I am not steady enough to take more than one photo of anything and then be able to snap more photos for a stack - without some sort of aid - be it monopod or tripod.

It makes me admire those who are able to take sharp macro pictures even more! (Brian for one)

Thank you!

You might have a look at Control my Nikon, if you've a Nikon. It seems there's also a Control my Canon now. You do focus stacking with the camera and pc. It doesn't stack the pictures itself. It's cheaper as a focus rail.

George

[Geoff F]

Ron Bigelow has a three part section on flower photography on his site, which may prove useful.

http://www.ronbigelow.com/articles/f...flowers-1.html

Regarding monopod/tripod issues. I sometimes tip my tripod on to two legs to get a single shot of an insect or flower when working in the real world among brambles, thistles, nettles and other nasty bits of the undergrowth. Just one leg dramatically increases my reject rate. But I always have all three feet firmly on the ground when shooting for a focus stack.

The exception being when taking a difficult shot of an insect where I don't want to move and give away my position. In which case I might attempt two shots but mostly thinking that I can take part of one image using select, copy then paste a small area such as a leg or wing from one image into the other.

[skitterbug]

Hi George - I use a MAC O/S system and unless I miss the system specifics, this seems to be for Windows only. I do have the ability to tether a camera to the MAC through a utility offered in Canon's Digital Photo Professional. It could be useful for a photo session. I imagine that the software you referenced probably has better ways to go about capturing that perfect picture though.

Thanks!

[skitterbug]

Hi Geoff - I just took a quick peek at your link and it looks useful! But then you've never pointed to anything that wasn't useful

So I could probably get by with a well made tripod and then use it in situations that may call for a monopod? Gotta read your linked article....... because it does look like it contains some answers to the questions I have swirling around in my brain.

I've never tried copying/pasting from one image to another, I've only done it within an image to erase something I didn't want. I suppose there would be times when that would be useful but for the most part, I like to leave the photos as I captured them. But then mulling this idea over, I do have lots of them end up in the rubbish bin because of minor problems. So this could be a useful technique to learn.

Thanks!

Ron Bigelow has a three part section on flower photography on his site, which may prove useful.

http://www.ronbigelow.com/articles/f...flowers-1.html

Regarding monopod/tripod issues. I sometimes tip my tripod on to two legs to get a single shot of an insect or flower when working in the real world among brambles, thistles, nettles and other nasty bits of the undergrowth. Just one leg dramatically increases my reject rate. But I always have all three feet firmly on the ground when shooting for a focus stack.

The exception being when taking a difficult shot of an insect where I don't want to move and give away my position. In which case I might attempt two shots but mostly thinking that I can take part of one image using select, copy then paste a small area such as a leg or wing from one image into the other.

[James G]

Hi Sandy, I'm a bit late to this thread...

I sometimes use focus stacking with insect macro. I too tend to use a monopod and rock the camera forward, refocussing through the focal range.

In the autumn I photograph fungi, often in less than optimum lighting conditions, and regularly use stacking. I use a stable tripod with a reversible centre column so that I can get the camera very low..... usually lower than I can get to see through the viewfinder. To get round that problem, I use a program, Helicon Remote which tethers my camera to a tablet/laptop. (Tablet is much more portable).

This gives me a 'comfortable' high definition live view on an 8" screen. I can also programe the sequence of images for the stack. I usually save the sequence directly to the camera, but I can copy them directly to the tablet/laptop.

[DanK]

Hi George - I use a MAC O/S system and unless I miss the system specifics, this seems to be for Windows only. I do have the ability to tether a camera to the MAC through a utility offered in Canon's Digital Photo Professional. It could be useful for a photo session. I imagine that the software you referenced probably has better ways to go about capturing that perfect picture though.

Thanks!

Let me back up a bit.

There are two ways to create a stack: move the camera toward or away from the object, or change the point of focus by rotating the lens barrel. Except for some practical questions, it doesn't make any difference which you do. What matters is that you get the right interval between shots so that you don't leave anything out of focus. There is no need for a rail, although you might find it easier to use. You can accomplish the same thing by rotating the lens barrel. I own a good rail, and I use it to help make fine adjustments for framing the first shot, but I don't use it after that to create the stack. I could, but I just am in the habit of rotating the lens instead, and I would have to figure out how much to turn the knob on the rail to get the right intervals.

I believe the function in Control my Nikon that George is referring to is controlling the change in focus via the software if you are shooting tethered. The software I own for that is Helicon Remote (not Helicon Focus), which works on both PCs and Macs. Once you figure out the settings for your particular lens (the defaults were not correct for mine), you simply focus on the closest and farthest points that you want in focus and indicate those to the software. The software then takes the necessary number of photographs, rotating the lens itself. It's in some ways very neat, but I found that I never use it. I just change focus manually. I have done it so long that I know how much to rotate the lens.

None of this helps with shooting bugs, unless they are very cold and slow-moving.

[george013]

Let me back up a bit.

There are two ways to create a stack: move the camera toward or away from the object, or change the point of focus by rotating the lens barrel. Except for some practical questions, it doesn't make any difference which you do. What matters is that you get the right interval between shots so that you don't leave anything out of focus. There is no need for a rail, although you might find it easier to use. You can accomplish the same thing by rotating the lens barrel. I own a good rail, and I use it to help make fine adjustments for framing the first shot, but I don't use it after that to create the stack. I could, but I just am in the habit of rotating the lens instead, and I would have to figure out how much to turn the knob on the rail to get the right intervals.

I believe the function in Control my Nikon that George is referring to is controlling the change in focus via the software if you are shooting tethered. The software I own for that is Helicon Remote (not Helicon Focus), which works on both PCs and Macs. Once you figure out the settings for your particular lens (the defaults were not correct for mine), you simply focus on the closest and farthest points that you want in focus and indicate those to the software. The software then takes the necessary number of photographs, rotating the lens itself. It's in some ways very neat, but I found that I never use it. I just change focus manually. I have done it so long that I know how much to rotate the lens.

None of this helps with shooting bugs, unless they are very cold and slow-moving.

Sandy doesn't want to shoot bugs yet but wants to play with focus stacking to get e feeling of it.
I downloaded once a trial not so long ago but never continued, maybe later. One of the reasons was it didn't have the stacking software, just the the software to control the camera. I'm not sure what Helicon Remote and Helicon Focus do but I think they have the same division between camera control and stacking. In price they are about equal. https://www.tetherscript.com/controlmynikon-home/

George

[DanK]

Helicon Remote does what you wrote, as I explained. Helicon Focus is a stacking program, like Zerene or CombineZ.


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[James G]

Dan, I may have caused a bit of confusion with my quick post.
I probably should have made it clear that while I use Helicon Remote for tethered image capture to step through the focal range, I use either Zerene or Combine Z to process the stack of images to create the blended composite .
Mostly these days I go straight to Zerene. I do on occasion use the 'stacking & blending' option in Photoshop, but it is rather limited since as far as I am aware, there is only one stacking algorithm available.

[DanK]

Dan, I may have caused a bit of confusion with my quick post.
I probably should have made it clear that while I use Helicon Remote for tethered image capture to step through the focal range, I use either Zerene or Combine Z to process the stack of images to create the blended composite .
Mostly these days I go straight to Zerene. I do on occasion use the 'stacking & blending' option in Photoshop, but it is rather limited since as far as I am aware, there is only one stacking algorithm available.

James, I too just go straight to Zerene. I find having both methods valuable, and the retouching function works very well. I also find that the ability to adjust the contrast setting in DMax is sometimes helpful. I access it via Zerene's Lightroom plug-in, which makes the workflow very fast and simple.

[skitterbug]

Thank you for all the good information that's been offered. I have software to check out and techniques to learn.

I did play a little bit today with a beautiful bouquet that arrived at my door unexpectedly. Since it is flowers I wanted to try, the arrival of these is a treat.

So I'm not sure if this rates as a decent "stack", but what I did was mount the camera on my tripod, focused from a distance that took in the entire bouquet and then focused on various parts of the bouquet. Affinity photo has the ability to "focus merge" so I tried that procedure. I fussed with the photo a bit, cropped it a little more closely and have arrived at this rendition.

I will definitely appreciate thoughts offered.

Bouquet

[Geoff F]

Looks fine to me, Sandy.

A scene with a lot of potential problems regarding over exposure/saturation but those items seem to have been well constrained and focus appears to be sharp.

[dem]

Very well done. You seem to get enough images to have plenty of DOF overlap between the shots. Everything looks nice and sharp. I like the appearance of the pot and the dark background.

A slightly tight crop, IMHO. I would try a 4x5 crop with a bit more room on each side.