Need a little help with some magnification math per bellows

[JBW]

It was suggested that extension tubes rather than a microscope is a path that I should consider. I took the suggestion a step further and looked at bellows.

Fotodiox makes a bellow for my camera and they make the following claim:

Features:
Best for extreme Macro photography, with MAX magnify ratio up to 8:1 (3:1 with 50mm Lens)
Bellows extend from 40mm to 150mm with locking thumb screw.
All metal construction for heavy duty use
Built-in Tripod Socket for seamless sticking.

Would anyone know the formula and share it with me so I can stick in 90mm and find out what magnification my Sony Alpha a58 connected to my Tamron 90mm 272E macro lens gets me with the bellows attached?

I'm thinking that as it's a bellows the answer would be something like 2to 4x depending upon how far out I push it?

Brian

[JBW]

I just found the formula and it looks good. Tiny pics is not working,\.

The basic information is that extending the bellows 150mm and shooting at F/4 gives me a mag of 2.67 at F/14.7 shooting at a distance of 45.4cm.

Now can anyone suggest excellent bellows for under US 500?

Brian

[george013]

I just found the formula and it looks good. Tiny pics is not working,\.

The basic information is that extending the bellows 150mm and shooting at F/4 gives me a mag of 2.67 at F/14.7 shooting at a distance of 45.4cm.

Now can anyone suggest excellent bellows for under US 500?

Brian

I don't think aperture is relevant for the magnification.

George

[James G]

Hi Brian, a bit late but try this site all the calculators you would ever need
You probably found the same one anyway...


I noticed last night that there was a problem loading images with TinyPic. Same this morning... was going to post images of Orion Nebula ... Ho Hum....

http://extreme-macro.co.uk/calculators/

[rudi]

Hi Brian, You can find a calculator here: http://extreme-macro.co.uk/bellows/#calculator.
I do not know how accurate this is, but I tried it out a few weeks ago and found the following :
bellows 150mm, canon mpe 65 mm at 5x f4, gives a theoretical magnif of 7,31:1. In practise this setup gave me a magnification of abt 8,75:1.

I will make more test shots in the upcoming days/weeks.

....

Would anyone know the formula and share it with me so I can stick in 90mm and find out what magnification my Sony Alpha a58 connected to my Tamron 90mm 272E macro lens gets me with the bellows attached?

I'm thinking that as it's a bellows the answer would be something like 2to 4x depending upon how far out I push it?

Brian

James beat me to it....

[rudi]

The Nikon bellows PB-4 and PB-5 seems to be very good !!
They can be found on e-bay.

......Now can anyone suggest excellent bellows for under US 500?

Brian

[Stagecoach]

Brian,

Your figures are the same as I get but the problem you are going to get is that you will be unable to adjust aperture or use AF unless you find bellows with 'contacts'. I'm not sure if there are any.

If you really want to have a look at high magnifications (other than the 2:1 approx. possible using tubes and your 90mm) you could consider a cheap used 50mm with manual aperture which will give greater magnification with the bellows but you are still going to focus manually.

[JBW]

I don't think aperture is relevant for the magnification.

George

Depends on how one looks at it. Aperture gives depth of field and affects IQ. So if by shooting F/4 and getting an actual F/14.7 I end up in my cameras sweet spot for both DOF and IQ.

[george013]

Depends on how one looks at it. Aperture gives depth of field and affects IQ. So if by shooting F/4 and getting an actual F/14.7 I end up in my cameras sweet spot for both DOF and IQ.

You're asking about magnification, not about sharpness.

George

ps.
I see now what you mean.

[rpcrowe]

Regarding the use of bellows. I highly recommend that you use an old enlarger lens at the end of the bellows. These lenses (especially when reversed) are great for bellows work since they can be easily stopped down and will stay stopped down for the shot. This is great when there is no electrical connection between camera and lens - which is the case with many bellows.

Enlarger lenses are available on the used market "dirt cheap" as an example:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...ses&_sacat=625

Do a Google search with "bellows", "enlarger lenses" as the two search parameters...

Here are some formulas (or is it formulae) for close-up and macro work...

http://extreme-macro.co.uk/calculators/

[JBW]

Regarding the use of bellows. I highly recommend that you use an old enlarger lens at the end of the bellows. These lenses (especially when reversed) are great for bellows work since they can be easily stopped down and will stay stopped down for the shot. This is great when there is no electrical connection between camera and lens - which is the case with many bellows.

Enlarger lenses are available on the used market "dirt cheap" as an example:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...ses&_sacat=625

Do a Google search with "bellows", "enlarger lenses" as the two search parameters...

Here are some formulas (or is it formulae) for close-up and macro work...

http://extreme-macro.co.uk/calculators/

Or I could go with a Raynox and a focus rail? That way I get to keep the all the good stuff. Chris Connolly uses them and he does some incredible wortk.

[AlwaysOnAuto]

Hey Brian, I use the system shown in this thread: https://www.talkemount.com/threads/m...ing-rig.17561/

You can scroll down to see some pics I've taken with it.
Got all of it on the Goodwill site, except for the reversal rings which I bought used from B&H if I recall.

[JBW]

Hey Brian, I use the system shown in this thread: https://www.talkemount.com/threads/m...ing-rig.17561/

You can scroll down to see some pics I've taken with it.
Got all of it on the Goodwill site, except for the reversal rings which I bought used from B&H if I recall.

I'm forming the belief that extreme macro is done the way I cook. Mix and match to taste and leave room for additions Goodwill site?

[Stagecoach]

Or I could go with a Raynox and a focus rail? That way I get to keep the all the good stuff. Chris Connolly uses them and he does some incredible wortk.

Brian,

I very much like the work of Chris Connolly because it's the combination of critter, lighting and its habitat/scene that make the images outstanding. But, to achieve such results I suspect the guy spends a lot of time lying on the ground with the agility to move his gear and himself around quickly and also possibly stages some scenes (nothing wrong with that).

In looking through his images I do not see much that 'requires' a bellows to be used. As an example here's a shot I took this morning using an almost expired dragonfly placed on a piece of rock on a table outside. Taken with a FF camera, 105mm macro lens at 1:1 with a Kenko 36mm tube fitted (guessing it's around 1.4 : 1 magnification). With your crop camera and lens you would achieve roughly the same framing/size.

No 1 - Original uncropped


No 2 - PPd and Cropped


So, what's the point I'm trying to make?

You have the 'magnification' already to produce the shot of a dragonflies head as above. What this shot suffers from is not lack of magnification but poor lighting, poor DoF (if you wanted more) and poor scene !

[AlwaysOnAuto]

Brian - the Goodwill site is:
shopgoodwill dot com

It's my go-to used site. You takes your chances as stuff is used/donated so you aren't sure it'll work. I've had very good luck with all the stuff I've gotten off it. You have to watch the pictures carefully as the ad descriptions don't always tell the whole story.

[JBW]

He does do dioramas. Here is a link to his gear page. he doesn't list bellows. I'm thinking that the raynox, a focus rail and the twin flash set up would be nice additions to my set-up?

[JBW]

Brian - the Goodwill site is:
shopgoodwill dot com

It's my go-to used site. You takes your chances as stuff is used/donated so you aren't sure it'll work. I've had very good luck with all the stuff I've gotten off it. You have to watch the pictures carefully as the ad descriptions don't always tell the whole story.

I just took a look and I think I'll be going back

[Stagecoach]

He does do dioramas. Here is a link to his gear page. he doesn't list bellows. I'm thinking that the raynox, a focus rail and the twin flash set up would be nice additions to my set-up?

I found this regarding the 250s use on a Tamron 90mm ........................

For the Base lens at Macro focus, aperture f/4.0:
Magnification: 1X
Working distance (lens front to subject): ~180mm (7")
Depth of Field: ~0.3mm

Adding the DCR250:
1. Using close (macro) focus:
Magnification: 2.44X
Working distance (lens front to subject): ~74mm (3")
Depth of Field: ~0.05mm

2. Using far (infinite) focus:
Magnification: 0.72X
Working distance (lens front to subject): ~125mm (5")
Depth of Field: ~0.29mm

As you can see, you can get a significant increase in magnification with the macro setting, but at the cost of a much smaller (1/6) DoF and much closer working distance. With infinite focus setting, you will get a decrease in your magnification with similar DoF, and only slightly closer working distance.

[JBW]

I found this regarding the 250s use on a Tamron 90mm ........................

For the Base lens at Macro focus, aperture f/4.0:
Magnification: 1X
Working distance (lens front to subject): ~180mm (7")
Depth of Field: ~0.3mm

Adding the DCR250:
1. Using close (macro) focus:
Magnification: 2.44X
Working distance (lens front to subject): ~74mm (3")
Depth of Field: ~0.05mm

2. Using far (infinite) focus:
Magnification: 0.72X
Working distance (lens front to subject): ~125mm (5")
Depth of Field: ~0.29mm

As you can see, you can get a significant increase in magnification with the macro setting, but at the cost of a much smaller (1/6) DoF and much closer working distance. With infinite focus setting, you will get a decrease in your magnification with similar DoF, and only slightly closer working distance.

I will certainly need to up my skill set. Maybe try some indoor diorama?

I'm feeling the same way I did before I got the Tamron. There's a whole new universe awaiting me.

[GrahamS]

Here are a couple of "macro" setups just to illustrate that almost anything is possible:-

Nikon D7100 with manual extension tubes and Nikkor-S 50mm f1.4 manual focus lens.





Nikon D7100 with Nikon F - M39 adaptor and Canon M39 extension tubes with El-Nikkor 50mm f4.0 enlarger lens.





Nikon D7100 with M42 adaptor ring and Praktica bellows with Jupiter 8 50mm f2.0 lens mounted on macro focussing rail.



Pentax K10D with Praktica M42 bellows and TT&H f6.3 six inch anastigmat.