Exposure Compensation Question

[pschlute]

If film cameras had never existed and manufacturers were to design a digital camera from scratch, what we might have is a mode dial with:
Auto for fully Automatic Exposure (camera uses aperture and shutter speed and ISO to achieve metered exposure)
S (or Tv) for Shutter Priority (camera uses aperture and ISO to achieve metered exposure)
A (or Av) for Aperture Priority (camera uses shutter speed and ISO to achieve metered exposure)
I (or Iv) for ISO Priority (camera uses aperture and shutter speed to achieve metered exposure)
SI (or SIv) for Shutter+ISO Priority (camera uses only aperture to achieve metered exposure)
AI (or AIv) for Aperture+ISO Priority (camera uses only shutter speed to achieve metered exposure)
SA (or SAv) for Shutter+Aperture Priority (camera uses only ISO to achieve metered exposure)
plus
M for Manual, aka "Full Manual".


Cheers,
Dave

Well Dave, I have all those modes on my mode dial already, with the proviso that your SI and AI modes are achieved by using Av and Tv modes with a fixed ISO.

[Tronhard]

Hi Dave:

I think we all agree that we are really only changing one of 3 things ISO, Shutter Speed or aperture. I gather we are struggling with semantics (as has been duly noted and I quite like your suggested dial options!). Then we get onto the issue of whether ISO is altered or not on Manual mode. I have all but one camera being a Canon (sorry about that but there it is... ), and in some of those bodies I can lock out ISO being changed when in M mode. I have only one Nikon body and that is the Df, which is a very special Nikon in its layout to give that experience of using a film camera.

In my old Nikon F3 and Canon A-1 the EC was simply a dial on top of the ISO dial that allowed me to change that value without changing the default ISO itself - remembering in those days the ISO value of film was fixed for a roll. Well the Nikon Df has exactly the same layout, as per the image below - they even put a lock on it to stop you moving it without intending to. So if that isn't allowing me to lock down ISO I don't know what will.

You are right in that if I had kept the menu setting at ON for Auto ISO sensitivity then it would change, as per the manual, top of the second page, but since I turned that feature OFF, as per the manual bottom of second page, the ISO remains locked unless I turn the dial - JUST like film days. So, my point is that if I really don't want to change the ISO (directly or via EC) I just leave that EC dial alone and as long as the setting in the menu for auto ISO is off it stays that way. That's all I was trying to say...

[Dave Humphries]

Well Dave, I have all those modes on my mode dial already, with the proviso that your SI and AI modes are achieved by using Av and Tv modes with a fixed ISO.

Absolutely Peter, nothing is new here, just the way the options could be presented.

I suppose my "I" option is your "P"? (with a fixed ISO), hadn't thought of it like that

[pschlute]

I suppose my "I" option is your "P"? (with a fixed ISO)

Although I could use P with a fixed ISO and it would achieve the same result, there is a Sv (ISO Sensitivity value) exposure mode on the dial. Cannot remember ever having used it though !

[MrB]

Hello Dave.

Just a thought - If film cameras had never existed, digital camera manufacturers might have given the third control affecting exposure a more descriptive name and scale than ISO Values; perhaps Image Brightening (IB), and 1 (base), 2, 4, 8, 16,....etc.

Cheers.
Philip

[rpcrowe]

In the interest of totally transforming our camera's control designations to where we feel comfortable with them

Since when you have HSS selected on a Canon DSLR camera/flash and your shutter speed is at or slower than the maximum sync speed of your camera; the camera/flash automatically reverts to standard sync. Then, if the shutter speed is adjusted to a value faster than the maximum sync speed, the camera/flash reverts back to HSS.

Since this happens automatically, back and forth, there is no reason that I can think of to have an HSS switch on the flash or to select/deselect HSS through the camera/flash control.

I simply place my flash in the HSS mode from the start and forget about it. I know that at a shutter speed of the maximum camera sync speed or less, I will automatically have normal sync and when I exceed the max sync speed, my unit will automatically go into HSS.

Can anyone think of any reason why you might want to shoot at standard sync when the shutter speed is over the maximum sync speed of your camera?

Eliminating HSS would result in one less switch or dial on the flash unit and one less entry in the menu to read. You don't even need the designation HSS. Simply a caveat in the camera/flash user manual stating that the flash is viable at all shutter speeds but, that over a certain sync speed, the flash will emit less power.

[pschlute]

Can anyone think of any reason why you might want to shoot at standard sync when the shutter speed is over the maximum sync speed of your camera?

I don't think any camera will allow you do do that, it should just not fire the flash. If it did allow it you would get an underexposed band on the image.

Like you I cannot think of a reason why you need to put the flash into HSS mode, but perhaps it has something to do with use of multiple flashes either controlled optically or wirelessly.

my camera does not have a HSS setting. It will automatically operate in HSS if I go above the sync speed (and the flash unit is also set to HSS)

[Manfred M]

Richard / Peter - your assumptions on HSS only hold true when shooting a hot shoe mounted flash or use an off camera speedlight connected by a sync cable.

Add in a radio trigger to a speedlight or a studio flash that is capable of HSS and one needs to add in the additional control as the maximum sync speed in both those cases will be lower than the camera's published sync speed.

With my D800 / D810 I could set the point that HSS kicks in at 1/250th sec (the published sync speed) or 1/320 sec, the first speed setting above the published sync speed of the cameras.

[george013]

I don't think any camera will allow you do do that, it should just not fire the flash. If it did allow it you would get an underexposed band on the image.

Like you I cannot think of a reason why you need to put the flash into HSS mode, but perhaps it has something to do with use of multiple flashes either controlled optically or wirelessly.

my camera does not have a HSS setting. It will automatically operate in HSS if I go above the sync speed (and the flash unit is also set to HSS)

Flash power in HSS is completely different.
There're camera's where you can use a higher speed as the syncspeed. The D70s by example, when I remember well. It had a focale plane shutter. Maybe you've that too.

George

[pschlute]

Add in a radio trigger to a speedlight or a studio flash that is capable of HSS and one needs to add in the additional control as the maximum sync speed in both those cases will be lower than the camera's published sync speed.

Ah. is this why radio triggers have a "delay" setting Manfred ?

[Manfred M]

Ah. is this why radio triggers have a "delay" setting Manfred ?

I don't know. My PocketWizards do not have a delay setting and neither does my Godox trigger. The delay I'm referring to is related to the extra time that the electronics need to process and transmit the data and communicate with the various connected flash units.

As an example, my PocketWizards can be integrated with my Nikon flashes / camera metering system and use the pre-flash to determine the light settings. There is a noticeable (few tenths of a second) delay between the time I press the shutter release and the exposure is made.

[pschlute]

Ok thanks. I have only really started using radio triggers in the last 9 months or so so very much a newbie. I have seen the setting in the Cactus triggers I use regarding "delay" but have not investigated enough to understand it yet.

My use of HSS has been limited to on-camera flash outside as a fill. In my "studio" set-up (ie my living room !!) I am using multiple off-camera flash using the radio triggers, but at or below my camera's sync speed. So no need for HSS.