Black and white with a hint of pink

[Rufus]

I gather that when printing, colour management can be controlled by the photo processing software or the printer driver software, but never both.

I can see in Photoshop how to set it up for colour management but I cannot find where/how to turn it off in the printer software. I have a rather basic (3 colour + black) Canon iP4700 colour printer. Black and white prints come out with a magenta tint which I gather is a characteristic of conflicts between the two colour management systems.

I use Canon inks and paper and the Canon profile in the printer settings. I do not have the facility to calibrate the printer, and for the time being I would prefer not to do so. I want to get the basics right first!

As an aside, should black and white prints only use the black ink?

Many thanks for your insight everyone.






Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Manfred M]

In general when printing in colour, it is advisable to set the printer settings to let the image processing software control the colour. When it comes to B&W, the settings should be that the printer should control the colour. If I try to print B&W on my Epson 3880 using Photoshop software, the printed images have a green tint if I try to let Photoshop control the colours, rather than letting the printer do so.

The problem is that this advice suggests that one is using a colour photo printer and these settings will be available / accessible through the photo editing software. Without knowing what software you are using, it's impossible to give any more specific advice.

[xpatUSA]

As an aside, should black and white prints only use the black ink?

Logically, a black and white print should never involve color cartridges. But I don't print, so what would I know?

My MG8120 Canon printer has two black cartridges and one gray one, no idea why ...

[DanK]

I print from lightroom, so I don't know one tells Photoshop to manage colors. However, in my workflow, printing from LR to a Canon printer, I have to tell LR to take control of the colors, and then I have to tell the printer in its own firmware not to try to control it. In the Canon printers I have, this entails finding the "color matching" section of the print dialog and selecting "none".

If you don't do this, both the firmware and the software will try to control colors, and the results are distorted.

Re Manfred's comment: with my printer, what he said is exactly right: use the software to control color for color prints but use the firmware to manage B&W printing. In my workflow, that involves telling LR to let the printer control color and then setting the Canon printer firmware to B&W. Re Ted's comment: that's why one does this. If the firmware is set to B&W, the printer will only use black and gray cartridges only. If you let the software control the color, with my gear, the B&W prints have a magenta cast, indicating that LR is using more than the black and gray cartridges.

David--the issue is not calibrating the printer. The printer will be calibrated if you use the correct Canon ICC profile, which you can download from Canon if it is not already on your computer. The monitor is what needs to be calibrated. If your monitor is not calibrated (and if it is far off, which not all are), and if everything else is set up right, you won't get prints that look like what's on your monitor.

[Rufus]

Thank you for commenting Manfred. Your logic and mine concur. And I can see that one or more grey tanks might render denser greys when combined with black or white.

I created a file with blobs of black on a graduated black to white background. The black blobs appear jet black but the greys have the tint.

I don't print a great deal, but it's really disappointing to get this outcome with mono prints.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Rufus]

Thank you for commenting Manfred. Your logic and mine concur. And I can see that one or more grey tanks might render denser greys when combined with black or white.

I created a file with blobs of black on a graduated black to white background. The black blobs appear jet black but the greys have the tint.

I don't print a great deal, but it's really disappointing to get this outcome with mono prints.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I apologise Ted for calling you Manfred, and apologies also to Manfred.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Shadowman]

Unless you have an optional photo gray cartridge that you can switch out you'll need to use the colors for your shades of gray.

[Rufus]

In general when printing in colour, it is advisable to set the printer settings to let the image processing software control the colour. When it comes to B&W, the settings should be that the printer should control the colour. If I try to print B&W on my Epson 3880 using Photoshop software, the printed images have a green tint if I try to let Photoshop control the colours, rather than letting the printer do so.

The problem is that this advice suggests that one is using a colour photo printer and these settings will be available / accessible through the photo editing software. Without knowing what software you are using, it's impossible to give any more specific advice.

That's interesting. I didn't know that the "rule" is reversed for B&W. I will certainly try that.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Rufus]

I print from lightroom, so I don't know one tells Photoshop to manage colors. However, in my workflow, printing from LR to a Canon printer, I have to tell LR to take control of the colors, and then I have to tell the printer in its own firmware not to try to control it. In the Canon printers I have, this entails finding the "color matching" section of the print dialog and selecting "none".

If you don't do this, both the firmware and the software will try to control colors, and the results are distorted.

Re Manfred's comment: with my printer, what he said is exactly right: use the software to control color for color prints but use the firmware to manage B&W printing. In my workflow, that involves telling LR to let the printer control color and then setting the Canon printer firmware to B&W. Re Ted's comment: that's why one does this. If the firmware is set to B&W, the printer will only use black and gray cartridges only. If you let the software control the color, with my gear, the B&W prints have a magenta cast, indicating that LR is using more than the black and gray cartridges.

David--the issue is not calibrating the printer. The printer will be calibrated if you use the correct Canon ICC profile, which you can download from Canon if it is not already on your computer. The monitor is what needs to be calibrated. If your monitor is not calibrated (and if it is far off, which not all are), and if everything else is set up right, you won't get prints that look like what's on your monitor.

From what you say it looks like PS and LR print options are presented in a similar way. I can select an option to have PS take control of colours.

I did find the None option in Colour Matching, so maybe I was looking in the right area in that respect.

I am not at home so cannot check the settings, hence I am not sure if I found a B&W tick box, but there is definitely a Print in Greyscale tick box. I will investigate both possibilities.

I use the the standard Canon profiles such as the Photopaper Glossy II which are available to select along with things like paper size and print quality. The profiles were downloaded when I installed the printer after I bought my new PC a couple of months ago so should be up to date.

I have a Spyder 3 to calibrate my screen, but nothing for the output from the printer, so it is good to learn that the latter is not needed to resolve the tint problem.

Thank you for some useful information.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Rufus]

In general when printing in colour, it is advisable to set the printer settings to let the image processing software control the colour. When it comes to B&W, the settings should be that the printer should control the colour. If I try to print B&W on my Epson 3880 using Photoshop software, the printed images have a green tint if I try to let Photoshop control the colours, rather than letting the printer do so.

The problem is that this advice suggests that one is using a colour photo printer and these settings will be available / accessible through the photo editing software. Without knowing what software you are using, it's impossible to give any more specific advice.

I am using Photoshop CC 2018 (and potentially LR but I am not yet comfortable with LR).

The driver is the Canon inkjet driver downloaded automatically when I installed the printer to the new computer I bought a couple of months ago.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Manfred M]

I am using Photoshop CC 2018

So do I.

I have only printed with Epson printers (I own a Stylus Pro 3880) and have used both a 3800 and a P600 as well. I have no experience with Canon controls and drivers, so will have to defer to people that use Canon printers.

[xpatUSA]

Unless you have an optional photograph cartridge that you can switch out you'll need to yes the colors for your shades of gray.

After a bit of reading, it seems that my MG8210 has a gray cartridge in addition to the four CMYKs and, on top of that, a larger black cartridge for printing pure black and white documents (no grayscale).

[Shadowman]

After a bit of reading, it seems that my MG8210 has a gray cartridge in addition to the four CMYKs and, on top of that, a larger black cartridge for printing pure black and white documents (no grayscale).

Yes, that was poorly written, I meant photo gray not photograph cartridge.

[Manfred M]

After a bit of reading, it seems that my MG8210 has a gray cartridge in addition to the four CMYKs and, on top of that, a larger black cartridge for printing pure black and white documents (no grayscale).

Most photo printers contain two black cartridges. One is for "normal" matte papers and the other is used for photographic papers that have some gloss. Certainly in my printer, which I use exclusively for photo printing, both cartridges are used and the paper selection determines which black the printer uses.

When it comes to the grey cartridge, it's there simply to allow for a more subtle set of neutral tones. Unlike our computer displays that can natively display 2^6, 2^8 or 2^10 colours per channel, depending on the technology in use, our printers are restricted to a set number of dots that can be sprayed on the paper. Some higher end ones can also vary the dot size, but regardless, the number of unique colours is still related to the number of individual colours that are sprayed by the dot pattern. Add a grey into the mix and the printer has effectively increased the tonal values that can be produced. Some higher end printers have two grey cartridges.

[DanK]

Some higher end printers have two grey cartridges.

Some lower-end dedicated photo printers too, including my Canon Pro-100, which I got free with my last camera.

Most photo printers contain two black cartridges. One is for "normal" matte papers and the other is used for photographic papers that have some gloss.

The dye-based photo printers have only had one black, so I wonder if this is something specific to pigment inks.

Interestingly, the multifunction printers I have had, which use dye-based inks, have had two black inks. I believe the seoncd one is a pigment-based ink for text, but I am no longer certain.

[Rufus]

It has been a while since I originally posted about the pink tint, and I owe you all an update. The tint or colour cast varies significantly with the ambient lighting. In daylight it is not nearly so apparent. I need to buy a different bulb for my study, and maybe paint the walls grey!

I tried four test prints in all permutations of grayscale/non greyscale and Photoshop/printer manages colours. Printing in greyscale appears to give a better result whereas not printing in greyscale lightens the light greys and darkens the dark greys and thus sacrifices some detail. Selecting the printer or the Photoshop to manage the colours seems to make little difference.

I am in correspondence with Canon support team and asked them for the optimal settings in the printer driver for Black and White printing. I have also asked how I can disable the printer's colour management in the printer driver as Photoshop reminds me that it should be disabled if Photoshop is to manage the colours. I am delighted that they have engaged with me but I still await a proper response. I will let you know what I discover.





Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Manfred M]

I wonder if you are seeing "bronzing" issues.

https://imagescience.com.au/knowledg...-inkjet-papers

[Rufus]

I have not come across "Bronzing" as a phenomenon and I read the link Manfred provided. The printer is a little old, but the slight cast does not vary with the angle of the print so I boldly deduce that may not be the issue. Recent prints have improved and I have asked Canon for some further clarification. I will post an update when that arrives.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[DanK]

Re-reading your OP, I have a different suggestion.

For black and white prints, you want the printer not to use the color inks. Normally, you do this with Canon printers by telling the software to let the printer control color and then setting the printer controls (in the dialog box) to either black and white or gray scale. (Some printers offer one, some the other.)

For color prints, you tell the software to take control of the color, and then in the printer's dialog box, set color to "manual", which should bring up a box about color matching, in which you select "none." with some canon printers, I think you get the color matching choice directly, without having to specify "manual."

[xpatUSA]

Re-reading your OP, I have a different suggestion.

For black and white prints, you want the printer not to use the color inks. Normally, you do this with Canon printers by telling the software to let the printer control color and then setting the printer controls (in the dialog box) to either black and white or gray scale. (Some printers offer one, some the other.)

For color prints, you tell the software to take control of the color, and then in the printer's dialog box, set color to "manual", which should bring up a box about color matching, in which you select "none." with some canon printers, I think you get the color matching choice directly, without having to specify "manual."

Small caveat: if I set the printing on my Canon Pixmar MG 8120 to B&W, I get the big black "document" cartridge - for which the print resolution in "squirts/sq.mm" is considerable less than that for the color cartridges.