I do know what colour looks like

[Donald]

I had to do this one. Just to show that Scotland does have colour

I call it my Scottish Scenes Calendar image. Definitely not what I would want to pursue. But any comments you have will be welcome.

[Shadowman]

Nicely captured.

[pnodrog]

Interesting. If you presented it as a monochromatic image I assume you would have increased the contrast and possibly reduced the brightness. However as a colour image you have chosen to leave it a bit flat and have not increased the saturation.

I know a photographer that increases the saturation of a photo print depending on the country he is sending it to. The U.S.A. market tends to like a saturation much stronger than preferred here in NZ.

I assume that a lower preferred saturation may exist with photographers working predominantly in monochrome. To appeal to a wider group of viewers you may need to increase the saturation beyond your own preference. This is not a criticism but just an observation that maybe in part be due to the fact I am viewing on a laptop computer rather than my normal screen.

It raises the question of how much should a photographer/artist compromise their personal preference in order to gain wider appeal?

[Donald]

That is a fascinating post, Paul.

I didn't know about any of that.

I did look at at the saturation. I put it up and did not like it at all. I think the muted, flat tones are what exist in Scotland and to do anything else would be false. But I appreciate what you say, because you do see the calendar's etc with greatly saturated images.

And, my processing skills lie with B & W. I did very little, if anything to this one.

[JBW]

What would happen if you pp'd the sky as a b&w sky? (if that makes any sense)

[Donald]

What would happen if you pp'd the sky as a b&w sky? (if that makes any sense)

I think so (makes sense).

I don't know. I viewed this as a colour image and so never thought of what it would look like in B & W. I'd probably put in more structure and adapt the tones to suit the image. But it was never intended to be a B & W. If it was, I might not have processed it. I can't say.

[DanK]

Paul,

I don't know of any systematic information, but I suspect what you were told was correct, at least with respect to the US audience.

One reason I post so little landscape photography is that I am not very good at it. Another reason is that on many sites (this, fortunately, isn't one of them), what many people want, and praise, is oversaturated, even garishly oversaturated images. It's even affected advertising. My archetype for this is the TV ads for Viking River Cruises, which reliably look unlike anything I have ever seen in real life.

Dan

[JBW]

I think so (makes sense).

I don't know. I viewed this as a colour image and so never thought of what it would look like in B & W. I'd probably put in more structure and adapt the tones to suit the image. But it was never intended to be a B & W. If it was, I might not have processed it. I can't say.

Nope I didn't make sense. I'll hopefully do better this time.

Leave the shot in full colour. But the sky is close to gray-scale. Would your B&W skill set transfer to the sky in this colour shot?

[Donald]

Nope I didn't make sense. I'll hopefully do better this time.

Leave the shot in full colour. But the sky is close to gray-scale. Would your B&W skill set transfer to the sky in this colour shot?

But that assumes, Brian, that I'd want to do something to the sky. Like I say, I wanted to show the colours of Scotland.

I could have altered the sky, but that would have made it look false .......... and I need to the address the sky in the reflection as well.

[JBW]

But that assumes, Brian, that I'd want to do something to the sky. Like I say, I wanted to show the colours of Scotland.

I could have altered the sky, but that would have made it look false .......... and I need to the address the sky in the reflection as well.

fair enough. Scotland has beautiful colors

[DanK]

Now that I am at my calibrated monitor, I've gone back to this.

It's a beautiful image, even if it is not your usual cup of tea. Given that you want it to be realistic, I'm not sure if these suggestions are outside of the bounds of what you would consider, but I think it looks a bit better if you increase contrast a tad (you can do this with a luminosity blend mode to avoid incidentally increasing saturation) and burning the bright area on the right to make it draw the eye less. I tried it, and I think the change, while not major, helps. I don't know whether you allow posting of edits, so I won't post it now. I can later if you's like.

[Donald]

I don't know whether you allow posting of edits, so I won't post it now. I can later if you's like.

Absolutely. Edit away, Dan.

[DanK]

OK, here 'tis. Just a minor dose of contrast and burning of the yellow grass on the right. You can do an A/B comparison with the arrows in the litebox (lytebox? Lightbox?).

[rpcrowe]

I think that there are some areas of the world in which the light tends to be a bit different from other areas. I think that the light in much of the American Southwest tends to be brighter and the colors more vivid than in many other areas. However, the one place with really special light for me is Coastal Greece and the Greek Islands...

[NorthernFocus]

...I did look at at the saturation. I put it up and did not like it at all. I think the muted, flat tones are what exist in Scotland and to do anything else would be false...

An interesting comment considering you do so much work in B/W which by the very definition is a view that none of us see in nature. But is it "false"? Also considering that the bold contrasts typically represented in you B/W images of Scotland are anything but flat and muted. Indeed to achieve the tonal contrasts typical of your B/W work by a simple monochrome conversion the underlying saturation and contrast would have to be very bold. And in fact when working on your B/W processing don't you actually manipulate color filters?

Food for thought

[Donald]

Food for thought

My B & W images are not meant to be a realistic rendition of the scene that I captured. They are my interpretation of the scene. So I cannot see there being any issue between stating that, in the colour image, I wanted the scene to be as true to reality as possible and in working the B & W image to be an interpretation of the scene. That is why I feel B & W is a far better medium for expressing my vision. Colour captures a scene.

[lunarbo]

As one who has seen a lot of Scotland- my parents retired to Inverness - I'd like to say that it's always a pleasure to see these muted mauves and greys . Add in snow, lush forest and a classic composition, who'd want to beef up the saturates slider?

[NorthernFocus]

My B & W images are not meant to be a realistic rendition of the scene that I captured. They are my interpretation of the scene. So I cannot see there being any issue between stating that, in the colour image, I wanted the scene to be as true to reality as possible and in working the B & W image to be an interpretation of the scene. That is why I feel B & W is a far better medium for expressing my vision. Colour captures a scene.

Though I respect your own preference for how you use the two media I feel compelled to point out that your choice of language to call a modified B/W image as an "interpretation" and a modified color version to be "false" may reflect a deep, underlying prejudice against us people of color

I've never been to Scotland though based on what I've seen in various media I envision it much like parts of Alaska. In which case this time of year one ends up with much the same result whether shooting color or B/W

[Donald]

... your choice of language to call a modified B/W image as an "interpretation" and a modified color version to be "false" may reflect a deep, underlying prejudice against us people of color

In which case this time of year one ends up with much the same result whether shooting color or B/W

Not at all, Dan. I think it to do with the difference we give to B & W and to colour.

A colour image is about colour. To render a landscape in anything other than what is true to the scene that was there, would be false to me. Now, if you are aiming to use colour as an abstraction and clearly intend to be a work of art as opposed to the picture of a scene (which mine was) then of course, go for it.

The B & W is truly a piece of artistic interpretation, which is why I disagree with your final statement, that,"this time of year one ends up with much the same result whether shooting color or B/W".

The B & W image is not a colour image with the colour desaturated out of it. It is a pity you used the word prejudice. I don't think I have a prejudicial bone in my body.

[NorthernFocus]

.... It is a pity you used the word prejudice. I don't think I have a prejudicial bone in my body.

Sorry, Donald, I tried to make the humor in that statement obvious. Though in retrospect the play on words with "people of color" may have been insensitive to some members. If so I also apologize to them as/if necessary.

OK I'll just go do something useful now