Box

[Shadowman]

Thanks John I now see the box in better ways. What a sad and tragic photograph. (Looks like something Robert or myself might take).

Hi Sharon,

I think the next few images and my comments will bring the scene more into perspective, both from my angle of view and the scene as it unfolded.

[Shadowman]

I'm wondering why that right hand remains in the same place

Hi Grahame,

Thanks for commenting.

[Shadowman]

Interesting shot John. I like the way that you have focussed on her head (pun intended), but am not sure which of the shots tells the best story - I think I slightly prefer the last one, because there is a sense of indifference coming from the OoF lower body image of the guy in the background.

Different, captivating and full of interest.

Hi Bill,

Thanks for commenting, the scene also brings into mind a thread I started years ago about indifference and photography. I'll see if I can find it but it asked the question of "if faced with a scene of danger or suffering do you as a photographer/citizen get involved, take the shot, or do nothing?".

[Shadowman]

Strange skin. Looks like very old, or over sharpened. But the rest of the body isn't.
Waiting for the explanation.

George

George,

Coming soon.

[lovelife65]

Hi Bill,

Thanks for commenting, the scene also brings into mind a thread I started years ago about indifference and photography. I'll see if I can find it but it asked the question of "if faced with a scene of danger or suffering do you as a photographer/citizen get involved, take the shot, or do nothing?".

I think that’s a great question and maybe best answered based upon intent of the photographer. ... what do they plan to do with the photograph?

What this scene looks like to me is a woman down on her luck and someone having given her a pizza in a box. Maybe instead the woman was in a temporary crisis and the box is meaningless

[Manfred M]

Hi Manfred,

I had to take the shot from the seated position I was in, she was about seven feet away from me, I couldn't change my angle of view without being to conspicuous, also I'm not sure whether or not the pizza box was part of the narrative. Thanks for commenting.

This type of picture seems to try to tell a story. As the photographer you have to decide what parts of the compositional elements contribute to the story and leave them in and which ones do not; those have to be left out. Your viewer's don't know about the circumstances and conditions you had to face to get the shot. They only see the image that you have presented. It either works or does not work.

Based on the comments about the box and your comments about not being sure of whether it is part of the narrative or not suggests to me that it probably should not be there. The image would have been stronger without it.

[Shadowman]

Here are my captures documenting the rest of the encounter, as you can see the pizza box disappears but not from my doing.

Box 4 by JOHN, on Flickr

Box 5 by JOHN, on Flickr

Box 6 by JOHN, on Flickr

[Shadowman]

I think that’s a great question and maybe best answered based upon intent of the photographer. ... what do they plan to do with the photograph?

What this scene looks like to me is a woman down on her luck and someone having given her a pizza in a box. Maybe instead the woman was in a temporary crisis and the box is meaningless

Hi Sharon,

A few members on this forum has asked the question "what will the photographer do with the images?", they feel if it isn't going up on a wall why bother. For me some of my shots won't go up on my wall but they will be displayed in my home, I prefer to put the image on an easel or lean it against a wall. I do plan to exhibit some of my images and the street shots would be part of the exhibit. What were my intentions when I took these shots, I just automatically reacted, I knew that help was on the way, I heard and saw the ambulance before I saw the woman passed out. Also my angle of capture was dictated by my position from her; I was seated on the ground and she was no less than 7 feet away from me, I had a friend and a few others to my right and if they were seated between me and the woman I probably wouldn't have shot across their position. I also didn't want to rise up and take the shot as I said in earlier post, I was already self conscious of taking the shot and didn't want to appear as overeager to get the shot.

[Shadowman]

Manfred,

I don't have any issues cloning out particular obstructions from an image, but even if I don't know how it (the box) fits within the composition I feel including it lends a feeling of reality to the image. If this were a shot of a city park with some interesting background, sunset, etc. I would feel that a bit of debris would be worth removing but an image like this the distraction is different as it is a realistic element no more different than a napkin blowing in the wind.

[lovelife65]

Ouch, very sad scene. I wonder, is she one of those suffering from opioid overdose?

Here are my captures documenting the rest of the encounter, as you can see the pizza box disappears but not from my doing.

Box 4 by JOHN, on Flickr

Box 5 by JOHN, on Flickr

Box 6 by JOHN, on Flickr

[Shadowman]

Hi Sharon,

She seemed to revive on her own so I'm not sure what caused the event, however they did take her away in the ambulance; there might be a new protocol for EMTs these days.

[lovelife65]

Hi Sharon,

She seemed to revive on her own so I'm not sure what caused the event, however they did take her away in the ambulance; there might be a new protocol for EMTs these days.

What's kind of odd to me, and maybe it's the perspective of the shot, is that nobody else is really around wondering what's going on with her? Are there a lot of homeless in the area? I see a woman playing on her phone, but not many others even appearing interested.

My final (I think) question is, what did the box have to do with the overall scene and its story?

[Manfred M]

My final (I think) question is, what did the box have to do with the overall scene and its story?

Exactly! If it had nothing to do with the overall scene and its story, why is it in the image as it is a significant element in the composition.

[Shadowman]

What's kind of odd to me, and maybe it's the perspective of the shot, is that nobody else is really around wondering what's going on with her? Are there a lot of homeless in the area? I see a woman playing on her phone, but not many others even appearing interested.

My final (I think) question is, what did the box have to do with the overall scene and its story?

Sharon,

This incident occurred on a Sunday afternoon during a gay pride parade, most of the individuals that were near her walked away as the ambulance was approaching, I think she passed out as she approached the door step because there was another group of people in that spot only moments ago. The neighborhood where this was photographed is a mix of apartment buildings, small businesses, and bars so this is not necessarily a homeless area but some interesting life choices are made amongst the people who live nearby.

Regarding the box, any element in a photograph can be used to try and interpret the scene, what does the element tell us about the scene (you did use your imagination to make some assumptions about the scene) if I clean the scene does that make you think the neighborhood is normally clean, also in the later photographs "who cleaned up the area?", there was a pizza box and a cup on the ground but not in later photos, why did someone clean up the area, did they not want the area to look cluttered, did the debris prevent them from helping the woman?

[lovelife65]

That does give me a better idea as to your goal with the caption and photograph and the stages of what you revealed. Including what you did in the very beginning had me believing I was looking at a homeless woman crashed on the street and someone had possibly left her a pizza.
That doesn’t seem to be an accurate conclusion. She does look pretty disheveled and out of it tho, so I have to still wonder if her passing out was because of a bit too much from the bottle or pipe. 🤭

Sharon,

This incident occurred on a Sunday afternoon during a gay pride parade, most of the individuals that were near her walked away as the ambulance was approaching, I think she passed out as she approached the door step because there was another group of people in that spot only moments ago. The neighborhood where this was photographed is a mix of apartment buildings, small businesses, and bars so this is not necessarily a homeless area but some interesting life choices are made amongst the people who live nearby.

Regarding the box, any element in a photograph can be used to try and interpret the scene, what does the element tell us about the scene (you did use your imagination to make some assumptions about the scene) if I clean the scene does that make you think the neighborhood is normally clean, also in the later photographs "who cleaned up the area?", there was a pizza box and a cup on the ground but not in later photos, why did someone clean up the area, did they not want the area to look cluttered, did the debris prevent them from helping the woman?

[skitterbug]

Hi John - I did find myself wondering why no one offered her any assistance. In answer to my own question, it did look like she had her head resting on some sort of cushion so it could be people thought she was okay but perhaps homeless and just taking a break? Apparently someone finally was concerned enough if an ambulance was called in along with police authority.

As far as the pizza box was concerned, maybe she was the "owner" of the box? Hummmm, maybe the pizza made her sick? I thought having the box included in the scene gave it a real feel instead of being "set up". I wonder if the police took the box to simply check it out or to just clean up the area?

I appreciate the dialog of this thread and the photos you provided. I feel sad for people who appear to be dealing with problems of any sort.

[Digital]

John, this is a very interesting thread. Been following it very closely. The problem with this whole situation is that we do not have all the facts. Unless we do, we can speculate all we want.
By no means am I suggesting you track this story down, this is just my observation.
IMHO, this incident is interesting with, or without the pizza box.

Bruce

[FootLoose]

Pizza box? I thought the title of the photograph referred to the framing of the subject - there is pipe of some sort across the top, a wall at the left side, and some object at the bottom boxing her in.

As for removing the pizza box - I thought removing objects from the frame was against the street photographers code.

[lovelife65]

The third photo is disturbing, as she looks as if her eyes are rolling back in her head.
Given how she is dressed, and I can see that more clearly thinking she is a homeless person is no longer valid.
I suspect the garbage was just picked up, as it should have been in the first place... or never thrown on the sidewalk at all.
We are pigs in this country. I've been many places elsewhere, and people don't throw garbage all over the streets and sidewalks in a city they love.
I lived in the Bay Area for several years, and San Francisco is a giant trash can.

Here are my captures documenting the rest of the encounter, as you can see the pizza box disappears but not from my doing.

Box 4 by JOHN, on Flickr

Box 5 by JOHN, on Flickr

Box 6 by JOHN, on Flickr

[Shadowman]

Hi John - I did find myself wondering why no one offered her any assistance. In answer to my own question, it did look like she had her head resting on some sort of cushion so it could be people thought she was okay but perhaps homeless and just taking a break? Apparently someone finally was concerned enough if an ambulance was called in along with police authority.

As far as the pizza box was concerned, maybe she was the "owner" of the box? Hummmm, maybe the pizza made her sick? I thought having the box included in the scene gave it a real feel instead of being "set up". I wonder if the police took the box to simply check it out or to just clean up the area?

I appreciate the dialog of this thread and the photos you provided. I feel sad for people who appear to be dealing with problems of any sort.

Hi Sandy,

Thanks for your comments, the help or not question is open for debate, could you do more harm by trying to help as you could do something wrong or could you place yourself in danger (recent story of EMT being struck by patient when revived from OD). There are some things you can do (such as warn someone about impending danger) and some activities that should be left to the professionals.