Another Computer Advice thread!!

[russellsnr]

Hi, OK now I am thinking of getting a new computer (Please note THINKING ABOUT) I have always used Windows for the Web and Editing images but if I was to turn and buy a MAC just for image editing what would you say is a good starter setup? Note that I am slowley also turning my back on Adobe, my last P/S is CS6 along with L/R 6, I have been stuggling witjh On1 for a long time on a Windows machine (never been able to get it go any faster than snail pace)and now turning to Luminar and/or Affinity Photo along with a couple of other softwares.
Maybe my imaginative mind but I see that the MAC community don't seem to have so many problems with software. I do also use an NEC monitor for image editing.
As I say not 100% sure on going down the MAC road.
Thanks,
Russ.

[Manfred M]

Hi, OK now I am thinking of getting a new computer (Please note THINKING ABOUT) I have always used Windows for the Web and Editing images but if I was to turn and buy a MAC just for image editing what would you say is a good starter setup? Note that I am slowley also turning my back on Adobe, my last P/S is CS6 along with L/R 6, I have been stuggling witjh On1 for a long time on a Windows machine (never been able to get it go any faster than snail pace)and now turning to Luminar and/or Affinity Photo along with a couple of other softwares.
Maybe my imaginative mind but I see that the MAC community don't seem to have so many problems with software. I do also use an NEC monitor for image editing.
As I say not 100% sure on going down the MAC road.
Thanks,
Russ.

Russell - I have used both Windows and Macs in my work and frankly see no difference at all in performance or other issues. I had a very hard look at the Windows vs Mac before deciding on my current computer a few years ago. I ended up staying with a Windows machine, because overall it made the most sense for my situation.

I will not buy a Mac because they do not offer as good value for money as PCs. Apple has the highest markups / best profit margins in the business so I find I can get a better system for significantly less money in a PC. The other main advantage of PCs is the ability to upgrade easily. I recently replaced my graphics card and will likely be adding another internal hard drive over the next few weeks. With a Mac that can be either difficult, expensive or impossible, depending on the model and upgrade required.

In terms of ease of operation and stability, Windows machines have caught up and some say surpassed Macs. Macs had a real quality issue about 5 or 6 years ago, but stung by the low ratings, they have improved and they seem to have solved their hardware quality issues. They have taken a lot of flak for software issues lately and are said to be working to ensure that they return to the days of past where they were well known for stability.

My advice to people has always been it is easiest to stick with what you know as there is a learning curve to any new operating system. Unless there is a specific application you must have that only runs on a specific operating system (Final Cut Pro, for instance is Mac only), I wouldn't get too hung up on one or the other. Most of the main players have ported to both operating systems. As a Adobe user, there are no real functional differences between the Mac and PC versions.

[James G]

Russell, Manfred has more or less said what I would have regarding the 'relative' merits of Apple vs Microsoft. Personally I have stayed woth Microsoft and certainly believe that their current operating system is the most stable that has come out and despite the rather irritaing 'bloatware' that comes with a new machine, it is reatively easy to remove unwanted 'offerings' and establish/optimise windows 10 for my needs.

There is one other 'option' worth considering, before you make a decision.

I have over the last 10 years or so, purchased custom built windows machines, rather than go to the 'standard' vendors such as HP, Lenovo etc.

There are a number of companies that do this here in the UK, though I have prefereded to use PCSpecialist.

https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk

The ability to make choices optimising component selection/cost to suite my specific photographic needs, has proved invaluable.

James

[george013]

Hi, OK now I am thinking of getting a new computer (Please note THINKING ABOUT) I have always used Windows for the Web and Editing images but if I was to turn and buy a MAC just for image editing what would you say is a good starter setup? Note that I am slowley also turning my back on Adobe, my last P/S is CS6 along with L/R 6, I have been stuggling witjh On1 for a long time on a Windows machine (never been able to get it go any faster than snail pace)and now turning to Luminar and/or Affinity Photo along with a couple of other softwares.
Maybe my imaginative mind but I see that the MAC community don't seem to have so many problems with software. I do also use an NEC monitor for image editing.
As I say not 100% sure on going down the MAC road.
Thanks,
Russ.

I have a trial of On1. On 1 pc it just doesn't work, on another it's like yours, slooooow.
If you want to use Affinity for raw-conversion you must check if it the works with sidecar files. I don't think so. But I stopped with it.
Have a look at Raw Therapee. Looks good and free. You don't need a new pc for it.

George

[russellsnr]

Hi, Thankyou for ALL the advice. As I said in the OP " THINKING ABOUT" and reading here just wonder if I may be better to upgrade what I have or at least get someone with the no how to do it. As I have both CS6 and Lightroom 6 and again in the OP Luminar and/or Affinity Photo.
Thanks again, Russ.

[Rufus]

I replaced my Windows 7 PC with a purpose built Windows 10 PC about 6 months ago. I briefly considered a Mac, but cost, inability to tailor the spec, and to a lesser extent getting used to a new OS meant there was no reason to change even though I love my iPhone and iPad.

There were some great tips in the forums here about the best specification which helped me put together an initial spec. Then I went to a trusted local dealer to choose one of their standard build specs which I could modify in conjunction with their advice to suit my needs and budget. I am absolutely delighted with the result as Photoshop and Lightroom load really quickly as do images and processes which work on several files at once such as HDR. I put this down to selecting an SSD and lots of memory. However I don't work on dozens of layers like some people - my skills are not up to it!

What I could not find was a board with several USB 3C type ports to future proof the kit. So I ended up with a multi-card reader with 4 x USB 2 and 2x USB 3.0.

David

[rpcrowe]

A thought, if you decide on a new computer - dual hard drives might be the way to go... My computer has two hard drives: an SSD which I have the programs (such as Photoshop) on and a standard larger hard drive to which I save my files and edited files.

The SSD (256 GB I think) is very fast while the standard hard drive (1 TB I think) has the space to accommodate my image files.

I was able to purchase this computer, which is a Dell, from Costco wholesale (a large U.S. corporation) which enabled me to customize the computer.

I don't think that I could have purchased such a powerful machine with the various goodies of my computer for anyway near the cost I paid if I had opted to go the Mac Route.

BTW: Regarding a possible substitute for Photoshop, if you are not planning to purchase another computer... I just purchased a small Acer notebook computer with the expectation of using it to tether my camera and also to download RAW files during my very occasional travel. The computer has a very small 64 GB memory (I planned to use a small size but larger capacity external hard drive) but, I like it because the screen is exceptionally sharp.

I was wondering what program to use to download my RAW files (I was thinking about using the supplied Canon program) but, the computer came with a rather nice photo editing program already loaded on it. It is the Cyberlink Photo Director Version 8 (they are up to version 9 now). This is a pretty nice full featured program that seems to be able to work on less powerful computers like my little notebook.

Here is a link to the program...

https://www.cyberlink.com/products/p...UaAnzeEALw_wcB

There is a free trial and the price is right. List price is $99 ($ USD) with 50% off right now, Plus an additional 10% off from that which computes to right about $45 USD...

As an added consideration: I always download my files using a card reader. I don't download straight from the computer, nor do I use the computers memory card slot for downloads, so I don't have to worry about slot compatibility: I use SD cards for my Canon 6D2 and CF cards for my Canon 7D2...

[JohnRostron]

If you want to use Affinity for raw-conversion you must check if it the works with sidecar files.
George

Affinity does not read any sidecar files at present, neither from Adobe nor any others. This will only be important if you want to open files developed with the other software. Otherwise, I highly recommend Affinity.

John

[george013]

Affinity does not read any sidecar files at present, neither from Adobe nor any others. This will only be important if you want to open files developed with the other software. Otherwise, I highly recommend Affinity.

John

That means when I stop editing and continue next day all my editing is gone. I'm talking about the raw-conversion.

George

[DanK]

I also agree with Manfred--if you are really adept at doing things in one OS, there is a real cost to moving to another. I am very comfortable in a Windows environment and can make do in Linux, which is the OS under which I do a lot of my statistical computing. Years ago, when Macbook Airs first came out, my wife brought one home, and I thought it was a wonderful laptop. (At the time there were no close substitutes in the Windows world. Now there are, including my current Lenovo X1 Carbon.) I played with it for several evenings and found that I got stuck doing all sorts of things that were automatic for me in Windows.

I currently use a stock Dell Optiplex 7050 with an i7-77000 CPU clocked at 3600 GHz, an AMD Radeon R5 430 video card, a 500 GB SSD for my software, and a 2 TB internal hard drive. I went with this because my university has a contract with Dell. I'm guessing that a custom configuration might be a tad better, but this one is fast and handles photo editing well. I match the 2 TB physical drive with a 2 TB external hard drive that serves as my first, local backup. (I sync to it rather than backing up.)

Re software: the software I use for photo editing (primarily Lightroom, Photoshop, and Zerene) functions pretty much the same regardless of the OS, so once one is working in the software, the OS doesn't matter. Presumably it does matter for some software, but I can't comment on that.

[Manfred M]

Affinity does not read any sidecar files at present, neither from Adobe nor any others.

Sidecar files are not the only way that edits using a raw converter / parametric editor can be stored. Adobe Camera Raw (*.xmp) and DxO Photolab (*.dop) use this approach while Adobe Lightroom and Phase One Capture One store the edit information (by default at least) in a database (which they refer to as a catalog). There is NO need for a pixel based editor (like Serif) to be able to read sidecar data.

The output of a raw converter is an image file, where the raw data has been assembled into one by the de-mosaicing process and has had parameters like white balance and colour space "baked-in" to the image file. The raw converters have different ways of sending the image data to the pixel based editors, like Affinity (or Photoshop, etc.). A TIFF file, PSD file, even a JPEG can be used to do this.

It's hardly surprising that Adobe has developed an easy way to connect their raw converter software to their pixel based editor, but third party converters can use a more traditional route. It's not at all surprising that Serif cannot open a raw file directly, as there is no need to and it just complicates things.

I have not used Serif in well over a year, so I'm sure the product has improved even more. At the time I tested it they used the Apple Aperture raw converter as well as a fairly rudimentary one they were building. I had no issues at all using Capture One an DxO Optics Pro (now PhotoLab) to do the raw conversions and then edit in Affinity.

[DanK]

Adobe Camera Raw (*.xmp) and DxO Photolab (*.dop) use this approach while Adobe Lightroom and Phase One Capture One store the edit information (by default at least) in a database (which they refer to as a catalog).

While Lightroom defaults to storing edits in the catalog, it's a choice, and I tell newbies that one of the first things they should do is to change this setting so that edits are stored in an xmp sidecar file. The setting is a bit hard to find; it's under <edit> <catalog settings> <metadata>. There are several advantages of this, one of which is that your edits are saved if you have a catalog failure. (Of course, if you are careful, you can restore a backup catalog--I back mine up once a week.)

[george013]

While Lightroom defaults to storing edits in the catalog, it's a choice, and I tell newbies that one of the first things they should do is to change this setting so that edits are stored in an xmp sidecar file. The setting is a bit hard to find; it's under <edit> <catalog settings> <metadata>. There are several advantages of this, one of which is that your edits are saved if you have a catalog failure. (Of course, if you are careful, you can restore a backup catalog--I back mine up once a week.)

That's the essence of a parametric editor. You can save the edits and continue later. With Affinity you can't.

George

[Manfred M]

That's the essence of a parametric editor. You can save the edits and continue later. With Affinity you can't.

George

Affinity is a pixel based editor (just like Photoshop), not a parametric editor.

I have not used Affinity since early in 2017, so I'm sure there have been changes. I had no problems working on a file and returning to it later on. What I cannot confirm is how well the internal raw converters / parametric editors work. In early 2017 when I had a trial copy, this functionality was so poor that I used external raw converters instead.

[DanK]

That's the essence of a parametric editor. You can save the edits and continue later. With Affinity you can't.

George

You can save edits and continue later in Photoshop, which is not a parametric editor.

My point about LR is just that it's the user's choice whether to save the edits in the catalog or as a separate side-car file. The editing process is identical in the two cases.

[george013]

Affinity is a pixel based editor (just like Photoshop), not a parametric editor.

I have not used Affinity since early in 2017, so I'm sure there have been changes. I had no problems working on a file and returning to it later on.

I'm speaking of Affinity Photo RAW, the converter. And from the beginning I used raw or nef. And can look back for 10 years now what I've done with that raw image. I thought that was general habbit when shooting raw.

George

[Manfred M]

I'm speaking of Affinity Photo RAW, the converter. And from the beginning I used raw or nef. And can look back for 10 years now what I've done with that raw image. I thought that was general habbit when shooting raw.

George

Thanks for the clarification George. We have been writing about two completely different products.

That being said, the few comments I have seen regarding the Serif's raw converter have tended to be negative. Slow and buggy seemed to be the overall consensus.

[Dave Humphries]

As you're UK based, Russell, I'll also recommend PCSpecialist (link in James G's post #3), they built my system about 17 months ago, still happy with it.

I went with SSD for the system HDD (and also as the editing drive), plus 2TB HDD for documents and timeshifted TV, although I keep images on external drives. Asus Motherboard and Windows 10 OS.

Cheers,
Dave

[davidedric]

I had my system built by Chillblast, https://www.chillblast.com
and have been very happy with, and also the friendly responses when I've had questions - changing the graphics card, for example.

Dave

[russellsnr]

As you're UK based, Russell, I'll also recommend PCSpecialist (link in James G's post #3), they built my system about 17 months ago, still happy with it.

I went with SSD for the system HDD (and also as the editing drive), plus 2TB HDD for documents and timeshifted TV, although I keep images on external drives. Asus Motherboard and Windows 10 OS.

Cheers,
Dave

Thankyou for the advice Dave. Not UK based however, I live on Rhodes Island, Greece Thanks, Russ.