Abstract: The concept of Focus using a Purple Passion Fruit Stamen & Stacking

[JBW]

ISO 100 ~ Shutter Speed 0.4s ~ F/8 ~ Natural Light ~ Thirteen Shot Stack In Zerene

Let me please explain my idea of how C&C works: Someone C&C's on my shot and 9 times out of 10 I'll comment on the comment. I may explain why I made certain choices. I may say yes I can see where your idea would make things better. I also reserve the right to disagree. For me, this is how learning happens.

Brian

[george013]

ISO 100 ~ Shutter Speed 0.4s ~ F/8 ~ Natural Light ~ Thirteen Shot Stack In Zerene

Let me please explain my idea of how C&C works: Someone C&C's on my shot and 9 times out of 10 I'll comment on the comment. I may explain why I made certain choices. I may say yes I can see where your idea would make things better. I also reserve the right to disagree. For me, this is how learning happens.

Brian

No C&C. I just like your experiments.

George

[JBW]

No C&C. I just like your experiments.

George

All of my shooting happens within 2,000 sq. meters. Keeping it fresh requires experimentation

[george013]

All of my shooting happens within 2,000 sq. meters. Keeping it fresh requires experimentation

A famous Dutch football player, Johan Cruijff, also famous for his quotes, said "Every disadvantage has its advantage". Go on.

George

[JBW]

A famous Dutch football player, Johan Cruijff, also famous for his quotes, said "Every disadvantage has its advantage". Go on.

George

I shall

[Rufus]

I like so much of your work Brian and this no exception, and I totally agree with your idea of C&C.

Have I understood correctly that this image involved the use of focus stacking? I have only ever seen that applied to get a complete subject or its most important parts into focus when the DOF of a single exposure is insufficient. Here you have managed to get lovely abstract blury effects. So did you, perhaps, stack images all of which had backgrounds that were not in focus? Were the 13 images required solely to get the stamen in focus, with an artistic decsion made as to how far down it should be in focus? I am curious.

David

[Shadowman]

Nice concept.

[JBW]

I like so much of your work Brian and this no exception, and I totally agree with your idea of C&C.

Have I understood correctly that this image involved the use of focus stacking? I have only ever seen that applied to get a complete subject or its most important parts into focus when the DOF of a single exposure is insufficient. Here you have managed to get lovely abstract blury effects. So did you, perhaps, stack images all of which had backgrounds that were not in focus? Were the 13 images required solely to get the stamen in focus, with an artistic decsion made as to how far down it should be in focus? I am curious.

David

Yes it did involve focus stacking.

The stamen is very small. I took multiple shots each time adjusting for what I thought was the best focus on the tip of the stamen. Each shot had a minuscule difference in focus.

At the distance I was away from the stamen F/8 gives a truly shallow DoF. Every shot was just that little bit different focus. But they all had the blurry bg.

The Tamron 90mm 272E is known for it's exceptional Bokeh.

For my birthday I'll be getting a focus rail and then with the greater control it may be an artistic decision. This time it was simply working with what I got.

Brian.

[JBW]

Nice concept.

I am beginning to use the idea of percolation in my pp. Some of my shots I let percolate for a day or so and then have a go at them.

[AndrewMcD]

I too have been experimenting with using flowers as the basis for abstract images. To my eye the jewel of a stamen that you have captured needs to be a bit more prominent in the image; I find my eye wandering off into the large area of color with little texture that occupies the left hand side of the image. I must add that your work is an inspiration and your approach to C&C is what makes this site so effective.

[Manfred M]

Brian - when I looked at this image, I got the same impression as Andrew. More stamen and less flower might be worth considering. Your "subject" is too minor a part in the overall image.

[JBW]

I too have been experimenting with using flowers as the basis for abstract images. To my eye the jewel of a stamen that you have captured needs to be a bit more prominent in the image; I find my eye wandering off into the large area of color with little texture that occupies the left hand side of the image. I must add that your work is an inspiration and your approach to C&C is what makes this site so effective.

Remember this is an abstract attempting to show how difficult it is to maintain concentration and focus. If I had made the stamen more prominent and the bg less compelling it would have been a stronger shot but would it have conveyed the same message?

[JBW]

Brian - when I looked at this image, I got the same impression as Andrew. More stamen and less flower might be worth considering. Your "subject" is too minor a part in the overall image.

In a competition I'd agree with you. But there are two problems with cropping tighter. The first is that I like to keep my crop above 1600 wide side to work well with my blog. The second is that if I make the stamen more prominent I lose the concept of Focus being hard to find and maintain.

[Manfred M]

In a competition I'd agree with you. But there are two problems with cropping tighter. The first is that I like to keep my crop above 1600 wide side to work well with my blog. The second is that if I make the stamen more prominent I lose the concept of Focus being hard to find and maintain.

If the image is stronger if you looked at it as a shot for a competition, it would also be a stronger image period.

I agree that cropping constraints can lead to issues for the photographer. As a printer, this is something I always wrestle with. Standard frame sizes and standard mats are a lot less expensive than custom ones, so choices have to be made. None of these sizes correspond to the format (height and width) of the camera sensor and in fact, they don't correspond to the paper sizes that the paper manufacturers turn out. As I know I will print the shots I am happy with, I do shoot with crop to print in mind, and in general I will print to standard frame / mat sizes. When this approach would result in a significantly inferior image, I will crop to the strongest image possible and live with the framing costs.

I suspect that you could get a stronger crop than you have here, even within the limitations of the height and width you need to live with for your blog. You question whether the same message will be conveyed to Andrew. The answer is no it will not be the same message but rather the message will likely be stronger as what he suggests is putting more emphasis on the subject, i.e the stamen.

[JBW]

If the image is stronger if you looked at it as a shot for a competition, it would also be a stronger image period.


I suspect that you could get a stronger crop than you have here, even within the limitations of the height and width you need to live with for your blog. You question whether the same message will be conveyed to Andrew. The answer is no it will not be the same message but rather the message will likely be stronger as what he suggests is putting more emphasis on the subject, i.e the stamen.

Manfred let me try again. I created this shot to be used in a specific situation. I needed it to show how difficult it is to find and maintain focus. I intentionally left the bg distracting. It needs to be distracting to abstractly show the hard core reality of how difficult finding and maintaining Focus is.

You agree that if I put more emphasis on the stamen I will change the message. I don't want to change the message. I don't want a stronger different message.

I would like a stronger same message.

Do you have any suggestions about how to strengthen the message that focus is easy to find but hard to maintain?

[Manfred M]

Do you have any suggestions about how to strengthen the message that focus is easy to find but hard to maintain?

It's the same way as getting a stronger image; a tighter crop.

The problem with your crop is that we actually don't see that the focus is easy to find but hard to maintain. A tighter view of the stamen would make this message clearer, in my opinion.

[JBW]

It's the same way as getting a stronger image; a tighter crop.

The problem with your crop is that we actually don't see that the focus is easy to find but hard to maintain. A tighter view of the stamen would make this message clearer, in my opinion.

Originally you stated that you agreed with Andrew and he said "I too have been experimenting with using flowers as the basis for abstract images. To my eye the jewel of a stamen that you have captured needs to be a bit more prominent in the image; I find my eye wandering off into the large area of color with little texture that occupies the left hand side of the image."

Which to me indicates that finding it was no problem but keeping your eye on it was. Which was just the effect I was looking for. How would making the stamen more prominent improve things?

[Manfred M]

Brian - the subject should do three things:

1. Catch the viewer's eye so he or she wants to explore the image some more;

2. Once the viewer's attention has been caught, it should then start to explore the subject; and

3. Once the subject has been fully explore the viewer's eye should wander around and explore the rest of the image.


You've accomplished step 1, but not step 2. When the viewer moves straight to step 3 from step 1, you know the image is not working as well as it should.

The stamen is where you want to explore the image, but it just is not happening because it is a fairly minor element in the whole image. It needs to be larger and more prominent.

[JBW]

Brian - the subject should do three things:

1. Catch the viewer's eye so he or she wants to explore the image some more;

2. Once the viewer's attention has been caught, it should then start to explore the subject; and

3. Once the subject has been fully explore the viewer's eye should wander around and explore the rest of the image.


You've accomplished step 1, but not step 2. When the viewer moves straight to step 3 from step 1, you know the image is not working as well as it should.

The stamen is where you want to explore the image, but it just is not happening because it is a fairly minor element in the whole image. It needs to be larger and more prominent.

No I don't. I want it to catch the viewers attention. But then, fairly quickly I want the viewers attention to move into the background. Then I want the cycle repeated over and over again. That's what needs to happen for this shot to work properly

[Manfred M]

No I don't. I want it to catch the viewers attention. But then, fairly quickly I want the viewers attention to move into the background. Then I want the cycle repeated over and over again. That's what needs to happen for this shot to work properly

And what have you done photographically / compositionally to ensure that that happens?

You seem to have it backwards; you want people to look at your image in a particular way, but do not provide the visual guidance so that happens. The process that I laid out in #18 does not happen by chance, but is the culmination of how the image is achieved from a technical standpoint, how the photographer has arranged the elements of the image and finally how the photographer gets the viewer to emotionally connect with the image. That emotional connection is what has the viewer coming back for a second or third look.

The three steps I have listed are what I was taught in my photographic composition courses:

Step 1 - catch your viewer's eye so that he or she doesn't immediately go to the next image, whether that is online or with a physical image;

Step 2 - draw the viewer's eye with a centre of interest to engage that viewer so that they study that part of the image; and

Step 3 - Once that has happened, the next step that the viewer will take is to explore the rest of the image. At this point, there need to be visual clues that guide the viewer around the image without leaving it. Shadows, curves, all those compositional tools at the photographer's disposal come into play here.

If the viewer finds the image sufficiently engaging, they will probably have a second look, but if not, they will pass on to doing something else.