D300 and Bellows, what one to get?

[mark4583]

I have been thinking of experimenting with macro photography with bellows, Im not sure what Nikon Bellow works with my Camera, Im using a D300s and the 105 mac. I have seen a handful of the PB 4,5 and 6 on Ebay for decent price's but what one works best? and besides the 105, what other if any attachments will I need, Thanks

[rpcrowe]

It has been quite a few years since I used a bellows. At that time, I used a selection of Nikon enlarging lenses at the business end of the bellows. The fact that I could select the f/stop on the lens and the f/stop would stay that way for shooting was quite a treat.

If I remember correctly, I could determine the exposure by having the camera in manual and stopping down...

[george013]

What I remember is that not all bellows fit on a Nikon. Not due to the fitting but due to the construction of the camera body. You might need an extension ring to mount it then, to create some more distance between bellow and camera.

George

[AlwaysOnAuto]

I've used my D7000 on my PB-5 bellows. I think it'll work on your D300s as well.
You'll want to look for some reversing rings as that'll get you closer too.
I've posted a pic of my setup in other threads here on the forum. Do a search and it should be in one of the threads on macro work.
(Sorry, I've lost my photo posting sheway(sp?) here on the CinC forum or I'd post another shot of it.)

[DanK]

I'm curious, what level of magnification do you want to reach, and what are you photographing? the latter matters because DOF gets very narrow as magnification goes up, so if you are going to shoot things that aren't flat and use a long bellows, you will have a lot out of focus unless you focus-stack.

Here's a real-life example. This was shot with a 100mm macro lens and only 36mm if extension, at f/13 (nominal) on a full frame camera. Given that effective FL is less than nominal at minimum focusing distance, this is probably a magnification of about 1.5:1. I shot with the bug almost parallel to the sensor to minimize DOF problems, and I shut the aperture down quite a bit. (The effective f/stop is much much higher at this distance, probably about f/52, so this is already in the range that I would otherwise avoid. See https://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tu...cro-lenses.htm. Nikons show effective f/stop, if I am not mistaken, but my Canon shows nominal f/stops.) You can see that most of the bug's body is in focus, but nothing else. Even several of the legs are blurred. At the long extension and much higher magnification you can achieve with most bellows, this problem is much greater.

[mark4583]

Just want to play around with them, I had seen a couple go for less than $100 in nice condition. I like to get stuff like this and play,,

[odds]

I have the PB-4 and it works with the D300 camera.

Some people struggle with mounting the camera to the bellows because of a conflict with a locking screw on the rear standard. One workaround is adding an extension ring to increase the distance between the camera and the rear standard, but I use the alternative solution:

a) rotate the mount ring on the read standard to the position for portrait mode.
b) mount the camera in portrait mode (the locking screw does not prevent this)
c) rotate the mount ring on the rear standard to landscape mode by turning the camera

When done,
d) rotate the camera (and ring) to portrait mode
e) dismount the camera.

I leave the mount ring on the rear standard in portrait mode, thus item a on the list was only needed once. Next time use I do b and c to mount the camera and d, e to dismount the camera.

I find the E2 ring and the AR-2 release useful for switching between fully open and working aperture set on the aperture ring (see https://mycameracabinet.wordpress.co...nsion-tube-e2/ or similar)

I also use the BR-2 https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-pr...mm-thread.html (and sometimes BR-3 https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-pr...mm-thread.html when reversing a lens)

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Odd S.

[odds]

...if you are going to shoot things that aren't flat and use a long bellows, you will have a lot out of focus unless you focus-stack.

Bellows where you can focus by moving the rear standard (and thereby the camera but not the lens) may be the best option for stacking. It does depend on the lens, but macro enthusiasts often use enlarger lenses or microscope lenses where this may be important. Michael Erlewine explains it in this video (which is essentially about focusing rails) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzVD95-9YOU

He claims fixing the entrance pupil relative to the subject by fixing the lens (bellows front standard) and focusing by moving the rear standard is the preferred capture method for stacking. Using the focus barrel on the lens is the second best option and using a focusing rail is the third.

If you do not care to watch the whole video, try the 5 minute period 09:00-13:45.

Mr Erlewine uses the term "back focus" instead of "rear focus type" lens. Back focus may confuse some even though he explains what he means: the lens focuses by internally moving lenses located behind the diaphragm rather than moving lenses in front of the diaphragm.
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Odd S.

[AlwaysOnAuto]

I use Odd S's methodology for mounting my D7000 on my PB-5.

[rpcrowe]

While certainly not quite as versatile; in that you are limited as far as the magnification and you have to side to side or up and down movements (except if you use a focus rail)... A set of extension tubes can give you much of what a bellows provides. If the extension tubes have electrical connection to the camera, you can select the f/stop. Of course, the f/stop is not exactly what the camera reads (I THINK that Nikon provides equivalent f/stops while Canon does not)... However, you ctill can use TTL exposure control...

I have a Canon Macro 100mm (non-L) macro lens and a 1.4x TC which I could use (better said - which I have to use) in conjunction with an extension tube. I an thinking that this combination will provide about a 1.5 to 1 image ratio...

I have just about cleared out my RV garage so that I can have it set up as a studio, When I do, I will begin to post some images that I will shoot with the macro lens, TC and, extension tube combination.

[DanK]

Odd,

Thanks for posting that link.

I am going to study this more, but I have one observation and one question.

The observation is that he did not start with a problem with stacking using a single algorithm. Rather, what he found that when he used a rail and a full frame camera, the composites from the two methods in Zerene, DMap and PMax, did not perfectly match. If I understand correctly, this created a problem only when he used one composite to touch up the other. This is something I do often--I touch up DMap composites from PMax composites because the former have better colors while the latter have less haloing from parallax. He didn't mention any problem with either of the two composites by themselves. He noted that he did not have this problem with adjusting focus with the lens barrel. I do all of my studio macro changing focus with the lens barrel, use a full frame camera, and do all of my stacking in Zerene, and I also have never had the problem. So, it seems to be a fairly specialized problem, but one that will affect some of us. I stand corrected: I have incorrectly told people many times that using the lens barrel and a rack are equivalent at a level of magnification for which the former works. That seems to be wrong: when the two differ, using the lens barrel is superior.

My question has to do with front-focusing lenses, which he often uses. Both of my lenses (Canon EF 100 L and Canon EF-S 60 for my crop) are back-focusing. However, in the case of front-focusing lenses that extend and retract, wouldn't the entry pupil move if one used the lens barrel to change focus when creating the stack?

Dan

[odds]

...Both of my lenses (Canon EF 100 L and Canon EF-S 60 for my crop) are back-focusing.

From what I read about those lenses, they both have "internal focusing" which I believe means that the length does not change, lens elements (or group of elements) just move inside a barrel of fixed length. That does not imply that the focusing elements are also located on the camera (rear) side of the diaphragm. I do not have a rear focus type macro lens, but I do have at least one with internal focus and then some non-macro internal focus lenses. Are you sure those Canon lenses are the rear focusing type?

I have briefly studied my own macro lenses and observed slightly different designs. Some focus by moving the whole lens assembly with the diaphragm as a unit, some focus by moving lens elements in front of the diaphragm and moving different lenses/groups different distances.

The entrance pupil is the diaphragm opening we see when we look through the lenses in front of the diaphragm. I understand, at least I like to think I do, why the entrance pupil's position is important when capturing for stitching panoramas. On at least one of my macro lenses I observe that the entrance pupil diameter changes as I turn the focusing ring/barrel between minimum and infinity focus distance. Front lens elements enlargement of diaphragm features appears to depend on distances between elements and the diaphragm (I am not surprised). Is that virtual change of entrance pupil diameter important when focus stacking, or is it only the entrance pupil's distance from the focused subject that matters?

When looking at the diaphragm from the front end of the lens, does the entrance pupil depend on the distance between the front end of the lens and the eye? If yes, what is the reference eye position? At a central focused point on the subject or at some given constant distance from the front of the lens?
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Odd S.

[DanK]

Yes, my error. They are internally focusing.

I’m still wondering whether front focusing lenses that extend move the entrance pupil, which would give them the same problem that the video describes for rails.


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[odds]

I’m still wondering whether front focusing lenses that extend move the entrance pupil, which would give them the same problem that the video describes for rails.

There may not be one simple answer to your question when "extending lens" is the only parameter. The entrance pupil I see when looking at the diaphragm through the front of some of my lenses while focusing, appears to depend on "what moves", visible on the outside of the lens or not.

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Odd S.

[odds]

They are internally focusing.

DC Nikkors (105mm and 135mm) are both IF and they appear to be the rear focusing type, but they are not macro lenses. The defocus (DC) ring appears to move a lens behind the front element/group as I turn it.
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Odd S.