Nikon announces full frame mirrorless cameras - Z6 and Z7

[Manfred M]

The rumours that we have been hearing about for months have been true and Nikon announced two new mirrorless full frame camera bodies. A new line of S-mount lenses will be shipping as well (three to start) and more coming over the next couple of years. A relatively inexpensive adapter will let enable existing F-mount lenses to be used with these cameras. 6 more lenses will start shipping in 2019 and 3 more in 2020.

https://petapixel.com/2018/08/22/nik...camera-system/


https://www.nikonusa.com/en/index.page

They appear to have done something right and will be releasing a body that seems to beat the D850's performance in some regards. I'm looking forward to the first reviews when the $US 3,400, 45.7 MP Z7 ships in just over one month. The less expensive $US 2000, 24.5 MP Z6 will start shipping in November 2018.

[Manfred M]

It must be a slow news day. Even the BBC has an article on it.


https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-45282922

[pnodrog]

I have been following the release with interest. Sometime in the next 18 months I will probably replace/upgrade my D800 and if these mirrorless Nikons prove themselves one of them will be high on my list. The idea of being able to focus and look at DOF in very low light is very appealing as is the options of user allocated buttons and selection knobs.

Switch to use lens focus ring for EC? I would probably never do it as I switch to manual focus reasonably often but the cameras open up a whole lot of control options.

[dje]

Yes certainly a very interesting development, especially for existing FX owners. If looks like existing FX lenses can be used with full functionality. They are fighting back against Sony! I reckon I could be a prospective purchaser. But like Paul I wiill probably wait a while and see how they perform.

Dave

[xpatUSA]

Having lived with a Panasonic G1 and GH1 for years in addition to my Sigmas, I find it quite odd that manufacturers are still bringing out DSLR's, i.e. non-mirror-less. If Sigma hadn't messed up their first mirror-less ILC quite so bad I would have bought one long ago ...

[Tronhard]

I have been following the release with interest. Sometime in the next 18 months I will probably replace/upgrade my D800 and if these mirrorless Nikons prove themselves one of them will be high on my list. The idea of being able to focus and look at DOF in very low light is very appealing as is the options of user allocated buttons and selection knobs.

Switch to use lens focus ring for EC? I would probably never do it as I switch to manual focus reasonably often but the cameras open up a whole lot of control options.

Hi Paul:

I can understand your enthusiasm - the camera looks like a formidable instrument and their new lens mount is very promising. You might want to have a look at the DPReview video on the pre-production unit they evaluated: apart from being entertaining it also covers a lot of detail.

Here is the link:https://www.dpreview.com/videos/9606...st-impressions - I like the discussion about the Zee vs Zed nomenclature!
There is a discussion about stop-down focusing starting at 6:45

[pnodrog]

Hi Paul:

I can understand your enthusiasm - the camera looks like a formidable instrument and their new lens mount is very promising. You might want to have a look at the DPReview video on the pre-production unit they evaluated: apart from being entertaining it also covers a lot of detail.

Here is the link:https://www.dpreview.com/videos/9606...st-impressions - I like the discussion about the Zee vs Zed nomenclature!
There is a discussion about stop-down focusing starting at 6:45

Thanks for the link I will take a look at it after the news.

[rpcrowe]

I recommend that anyone wanting to try a brand new concept in camera gear to take a "wait and see" attitude. I got burned by Canon's 6D2 (thinking that since the 6D was a good camera, the 6D2 would be better) without doing my proper research.

Just look at how many tries Sony had before they came up with the three present cameras that most photographers are interested in: the A9, A7Riii and the A7iii. Not that the previous A7 cameras were bad, just that (unlike Canon) each new model brought improvements...

If I were a NIKON guy, I'd wait for the dust to settle before shelling out my cold hard cash!

[shreds]

Having been totally Nikon committed for what seems like a lifetime, rather than being seen as a new beginning, I rather see it the opposite way….the end of the road. I do not welcome such a massive change and cannot see me committing to any of their new products. I dont want mirrorless or a lighter weight camera. I have that already in the iPhone.

The pro level stuff I use, will probably now see me out and I do not see advantage in a change. Their loss and I will not be alone

Gosh that all sounds old fashioned and depressing, but rather than being inspired to shell out £5+k on the next version, I will wait for Nikon to be subsumed by Sony or similar merger in the future. And for separate reasons I will never go over to Sony.

[Manfred M]

If I were a NIKON guy, I'd wait for the dust to settle before shelling out my cold hard cash!

I agree 100% Richard. The first new model of any product is likely to have some "teething pains", so I would suggest waiting for the first update of this camera (~ 3 years would be my guess) before looking at this type of camera more seriously.

Having had a chance to work with a couple of high end Sony cameras, I am still not sold on the electronic viewfinder (a pentaprism based DSLR is still superior, in my view) and the battery life will continue to be the weakness of this type of camera. The question of being "good enough" is something we will get an answer to after the cameras hit the market and actual user experience starts hitting the internet.

I have mixed feelings about the new S-mount lenses. The F-mount is ancient so an update makes sense, which is what Canon did when it discontinued the FD mount and replaced it with the E mounts. The difference being that Canon had a very limited "professional" market so while the existing user base was not happy with the decision, they were able to introduce a modern lens mount that ended up making them the market leader.

Nikon is in a more challenging position as they are supporting a large and significant professional and serious amateur user base that has invested in F-mount lenses in both the Ff and APS-C formats. They have now introduced a new series of lenses that just muddy the waters.

[rpcrowe]

This may or may not be diverging from the subject but, since it involves electronic vs. pentaprism viewfinders it might be appropriate.

I also like the TTL pentaprism viewfinder. However, I have not tried any top line EVF's such as are on the latest Sony A7 series or A9 cameras for example. The main reason that I might like an EVF is the eye detect focus that Sony touts. However, I have viewed some YouTube videos by folks that I respect (Tony and Chelsea Northrup and Dirkson Photography) who have stated that despite the hoopla, the eye detect of the Sony A7 (series) cameras do not give you 100% sharp focus on the eyes, more like 80% or less. Never having used the lens myself, of course, I can neither confirm nor deny these statements. They are, however something to think about!

I can do better than that using my TTL AF on my 7D Mark 2. IMO accuracy is more important than speed in portraiture. One of the most annoying things in photography is to get a great expression (and sometimes the difference between good and great is very-very small) only to find that the subject's eye is a TAD bit OOF.

[Tronhard]

Richard
I agree with your concerns about the EVF, however I was interested to read the glowing reviews the one on the new Z bodies received - some comments suggested it was as clear as a DSLR. I guess we shall see when the production models hit the streets and the feedback flows in...

[Tronhard]

I don't want mirrorless or a lighter weight camera. I have that already in the iPhone.

The pro level stuff I use, will probably now see me out and I do not see advantage in a change. Their loss and I will not be alone.

I suspect and hope that the next iteration of the Nikon Df will still have a pentaprism as it is supposed to be a retro style camera. I love my Df's and welcome the evolution of a new one with a few "fixes" thrown in.

[Tronhard]

Interesting.... I came across this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUii9dTwPkw
It's a different point of view and I have no skin in the game, but it's... interesting...

[Hanginon]

"Almost as good as Sony" cameras, that will hopefully stop, or at least slow, the move away from Nikon...and it may work, depending upon the lens adapter.

I believe that diehard Nikonian's can put up with, and make excuses for, things like a single memory card and no eye focus, IF their tons of F mount lenses work exactly like a native Z lens when using said adapter - and I'm talking real world, not what a sheet a paper says. If they don't, and have to get native Z lenses anyway, it's a whole different ball game. Then it will be catch-up time, and Nikon will probably be forced to release their code to third party lens companies.

Canon may not have this problem, and hopefully will not release an "almost as good as Sony" camera.

IMHO, what is still not understood in the boardroom of Nikon (and maybe Canon, we shall see), is that young people do not have brand loyalty with anything (not just cameras) - and quickly move to whatever works best.

[Manfred M]

IMHO, what is still not understood in the boardroom of Nikon (and maybe Canon, we shall see), is that young people do not have brand loyalty with anything (not just cameras) - and quickly move to whatever works best.

That is true only insofar as going with a specific brand when one is starting out. The problem is that once one has invested in a system, it is expensive to change, so brand loyalty is financially driven more than anything else.

The other issue is support, especially for commercial photographers. The infrastructure, especially in service and support, is quite different than for amateur photographers. Canon and Nikon have this in place for their commercial photography community; none of the other brands (outside of the what the medium format camera makers; Phase One, Hasselblad and Leica provide for this community) have this support network. In my view, that is one of Sony's main liabilities right now (as well as the robustness of their cameras and their lack of speciality lenses (shift-tilt, for instance)).

Sony knows how to do this as they have a service and support arm set up for their pro video equipment (Panasonic does too), but not for their still camera lines. They really are not in the pro market, which supports some of the innovation. I have heard the same complaints about FujiFilm and Ricoh (Pentax) as their medium format offerings are clearly aimed at the amateur market.

[Tronhard]

I agree with Manfred. I can personally testify that I knew I was making a strategic decision when I bought my first Canon DSLR. Up until then I could use adaptall lenses and switch between brands. Now, as time has passed and my investment in Canon has increased, it would be very hard and extremely expensive for me to move to another brand en masse. I will admit I went out and got two Nikon Df's and a couple of lenses, but that was because for me they offered something quite unique with their shooting experience.

Being retired and having less disposable income I shall be far more stingy in investing in hardware, so it my next purchase will a carefully mulled-over decision.

[Dave Humphries]

Another thought that crosses my mind is the lack of long focal lengths in the foreseeable future.

I suspect the lag of any sensor+EVF system is another factor that will make their use; e.g. for wildlife or aircraft shooting, impractical.

Perhaps explaining why there's no rush to get anything longer than 200 mm out.

A case that the Z6/7 'horse' doesn't suit that 'course'.

Interesting though,
Dave

[rpcrowe]

Interesting.... I came across this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUii9dTwPkw
It's a different point of view and I have no skin in the game, but it's... interesting...

As a Canon guy and a DSLR user, I also don't have any horse in this race BUT... if I were to consider ANY camera it would need to have spot on autofocusing. And for me to even THINK about switching to a mirrorless body, the absolute requirement would be EYE DETECT" autofocus that is right on! Otherwise, my 7D2 does me quite well. Sorry I cannot say the same about my 6D2...

However, I can say this about the 6D2. The Dual Pixel CMOS autofocus in live view is absolutely excellent. It is fast and is exceptionally responsive to the touch screen (which according to the Northrups is not the case with the Z cameras). The problem with the 6D2 is that you need to use live view to initiate the Dual Pixel CMOS AF and it is difficult (at least for me) to shoot using live view in the bright sun. Using an auxiliary viewfinder such as the Hoodman or, even better, the SWIVI allows me to view the LCD even in the bright sun. However, it negates the use of touch screen focus because you simply cannot touch the screen. Moving the focus point around with the back of camera controls is absolutely dead-on accurate but slow as molasses.

What I am getting at is that Canon has floated their mirrorless crop sensor M-50 camera without a lot of hoopla. It does have at least one feature that I am exceptionally impressed with: you can view and frame your image using the eye level electronic viewfinder while at the same time, choosing your focus point with your thumb on the touch screen LCD - either with the LCD folded into the back of the camera or articulated out to the side of the camera. I think that this would be the best of two worlds and wonder if this might not be one of the features planned for the eventual full frame Canon DSLR.

I am not trying to equate a six or seven hundred dollar camera like the M-50 with an expensive model like either of the forthcoming Nikon Z cameras. What I am suggesting is that I strongly suspect Canon may be using the feature set of the M-50 as a sounding board to see which are embraced by the consumers and which are not liked.

I think that Nikon might have benefited by introducing an entry level consumer crop sensor mirrorless camera - that was based on what a full frame Mirrorless Camera, might be like,before they shot their load on the Z-series cameras...

After all Canon fell on its sword by not including a second memory slot in the 6D2 and Nikon followed right along with that. IMO, a second card slot is imperative for professional use in arenas such as weddings and other non-repeatable events. The prices of the Z-series, especially the Z-7 would indicate that this is aimed at the pro market or the very-very well off non-pro...

As far as the possibility of adding an upgraded CF card slot. I have absolutely no problems using two different type cards in my Canon 7D2. I just wish that I could record video on one card and stills on the other...

BTW: as an opinion requested by no one: I think that the Sony A7iii and A7Riii are bigger threats to sales of Canon bodies than to sales of Nikon bodies. I am basing that completely unscientific opinion on the fact that, I have read that, the Sony bodies are a better fit for Canon lenses with adapters than for Nikon lenses. Therefore a Canon shooter who has amassed a collection of excellent and expensive EF lenses might be more likely to cross deck to a Sony body than a Nikonian who could not adapt his equally as excellent and expensive Nikon glass as easily.

[Dave Humphries]

Was I mistaken, or did I see mention of space having been left for the future provision of a (nextgen)CF card? It had a name I didn't recognise. Most of my research was on the articles on DPR, so look there first to corroborate (or dismiss).

If so, I suspect they are waiting for the specification to be tied down to an industry standard before committing to hardware manufacture.

That would give it two slots, albeit for different shaped cards, which will annoy many I'm sure.