Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 30

Thread: Rescued by RAW

  1. #1

    Rescued by RAW

    So... I was out shooting gannets (as an aside, when I said this to a lady at the local cafe she thought I was using a firearm and was visibly upset!). The gannets were really busy finding nesting materials and mating (avoiding sexual content here!), but with a brisk wind they were really motoring past me. I was using several different cameras and lenses and in the process of trying to change the focusing matrix of one I inadvertently put -3 stops exposure compensation on.

    I happily blatted away (no chimping for this boy!) but when I got home, what I saw was this...
    Rescued by RAW
    Duh...

    After a bit of work in PS and LR I managed to get it back to this:
    Rescued by RAW
    Phew...

    I don't think could have happened to a JPG file.
    Last edited by Tronhard; 2nd September 2018 at 09:50 PM.

  2. #2
    zen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Clarence, NY
    Posts
    493
    Real Name
    Zen

    Re: Rescued by RAW

    I think you're right. However, I DO shoot RAW and medium JPEGs in my 5d4, and am surprised sometimes what I can get from a JPEG. I usually download both, and then based on a quick view of the JPEGs, decide which images to work on on my larger mach where I have LR and PS.

    In your case here, though, I don't think I could have pulled a JPEG all the way back as you did here in LR/PS. Good job!

    Thankd for sharing.

    Zen

  3. #3
    Shadowman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    WNY
    Posts
    36,716
    Real Name
    John

    Re: Rescued by RAW

    Nice recovery and capture.

  4. #4

    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    amsterdam, netherlands
    Posts
    3,182
    Real Name
    George

    Re: Rescued by RAW

    I don't think I'll be able to do that.

    Zen,
    You don't need to save raw and jpg for that purpose. There's a full jpg embedded in the raw file. Use a browser like IView.

    George

  5. #5
    pnodrog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Nomadic but not homeless, ex N.Z. now Aust.
    Posts
    4,149
    Real Name
    Paul

    Re: Rescued by RAW

    Great - but which camera and what ISO setting?...

  6. #6

    Re: Rescued by RAW

    Quote Originally Posted by pnodrog View Post
    Great - but which camera and what ISO setting?...
    I was using a Canon EOS 80D, ISO 160 and f10, with -3 EV compensations !!! The lens was the EF L 70-300 IS USM.

  7. #7
    pnodrog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Nomadic but not homeless, ex N.Z. now Aust.
    Posts
    4,149
    Real Name
    Paul

    Re: Rescued by RAW

    Quote Originally Posted by Tronhard View Post
    I was using a Canon EOS 80D, ISO 160 and f10, with -3 EV compensations !!! The lens was the EF L 70-300 IS USM.
    It's done a good job. You should thank the ISO 160 as well as the RAW for the stunning recovery job. (OK also some credit to the superb PP skills if you must)

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Central Texas, USA
    Posts
    1,164

    Re: Rescued by RAW

    Well done recovery.

  9. #9
    Moderator Manfred M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    22,148
    Real Name
    Manfred Mueller

    Re: Rescued by RAW

    Quote Originally Posted by george013 View Post
    I don't think I'll be able to do that.

    Zen,
    You don't need to save raw and jpg for that purpose. There's a full jpg embedded in the raw file. Use a browser like IView.

    George
    I believe the embedded JPEG is thumbnail size and is primarily used for preview purposes rather than being large enough to be useful for much else. I’m also not aware of any tool that actually extracts the JPEG from raw data so that it can be edited.

    I am also a raw + JPEG shooter.

  10. #10
    Moderator Manfred M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    22,148
    Real Name
    Manfred Mueller

    Re: Rescued by RAW

    A good example of how all the extra data found in a raw file lets one recover a badly exposed image versus what can be pulled out of a JPEG. 14-bit versus 8-bit. I suspect that close up inspection of the black areas of the wing would show these parts of the image to have more digital noise than a well exposed shot, but being such a small part of the shot lets you get away with it.

  11. #11
    MrB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Hertfordshire, England
    Posts
    1,437
    Real Name
    Philip

    Re: Rescued by RAW

    If anyone makes a similar mistake when shooting JPEGs, all is not completely lost. This is a crop from the dark JPEG in Post#1:

    Rescued by RAW

    Obviously the result from all the extra data in the raw file is bound to be better, but the image recovered from a JPEG might be good enough for web or tablet viewing.

    Cheers.
    Philip

  12. #12

    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    amsterdam, netherlands
    Posts
    3,182
    Real Name
    George

    Re: Rescued by RAW

    Quote Originally Posted by Manfred M View Post
    I believe the embedded JPEG is thumbnail size and is primarily used for preview purposes rather than being large enough to be useful for much else. I’m also not aware of any tool that actually extracts the JPEG from raw data so that it can be edited.

    I am also a raw + JPEG shooter.
    It has been mentioned several times before. The embedded jpg is full size. Use a browser like IView and parse through the raw files. I'm doing this for 10 years now. There's also an embedded jpg as a thumbnail.

    George

  13. #13
    DanK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    8,798
    Real Name
    Dan

    Re: Rescued by RAW

    Quote Originally Posted by george013 View Post
    It has been mentioned several times before. The embedded jpg is full size. Use a browser like IView and parse through the raw files. I'm doing this for 10 years now. There's also an embedded jpg as a thumbnail.

    George
    This argument intrigued me. The most common claim is that the raw file includes a jpeg thumbnail. One also sees a claim that it includes a low-quality full-size jpeg. But then I found this, at https://www.photo.net/discuss/thread...w-file.500315/

    I have received the following today from Canon. Its in Norwegian and I am providing the translation.
    --------------------------------------------------
    Hei Tormod
    Takk for at du kontaktet Canon.

    Jeg kan bekrefte at ikke heller Canons CR,CR2 inneholder en thumbnail og krever RAW codec pack for fremvisning.
    Tjenester som feks Picasa har ofte integrerte løsninger som tillater de vanlige RAW formatene.

    Med vennlig hilsen,




    Ole Buer Askeland
    Canon Services & Support


    Thank you for contacting Canon.
    I can confirm that Canon CR, CR2 do not contain a thumbnail either, and require a RAW codec pack for display.

    Applications like Picasa often have integrated solutions allowing the common RAW formats.
    Best regards
    Ole Buer Askeland
    Canon Services & Support

    I have also received an answer from Nikon:
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    Dear Thormod Nordahl,

    Thank you for contacting Nikon. In regard to your question, Nikon NEF (RAW) file does not contain a JPEG thumbnail.

    Regards
    Laurence
    Nikon Support.

  14. #14

    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    amsterdam, netherlands
    Posts
    3,182
    Real Name
    George

    Re: Rescued by RAW

    Quote Originally Posted by DanK View Post
    This argument intrigued me. The most common claim is that the raw file includes a jpeg thumbnail. One also sees a claim that it includes a low-quality full-size jpeg. But then I found this, at https://www.photo.net/discuss/thread...w-file.500315/
    I've been looking for some raw-files. http://www.rawsamples.ch/index.php/en/canon
    Assuming Zen means 5d markIV I downloaded that and opened in IView.
    The image shown is 4896 x 3264 Pixels (15.98 MPixels) (3:2).
    Other info
    Filename - RAW_CANON_EOS_1DM4.CR2
    ImageWidth - 4896
    ImageLength - 3264
    BitsPerSample - 8 8 8
    Compression - 6 (JPG)
    Make - Canon
    Model - Canon EOS-1D Mark IV
    StripOffset - 63724
    Orientation - Top left
    StripByteCount - 1152364
    XResolution - 72
    YResolution - 72
    ResolutionUnit - Inch
    DateTime - 2009:12:29 16:45:53
    Artist -
    Copyright -
    ExifOffset - 434
    ExposureTime - 20 seconds
    FNumber - 16
    ExposureProgram - Aperture priority
    ISOSpeedRatings - 100
    ExifVersion - 0221
    DateTimeOriginal - 2009:12:29 16:45:53
    DateTimeDigitized - 2009:12:29 16:45:53
    ComponentsConfiguration - YCbCr
    ShutterSpeedValue - 21 seconds
    ApertureValue - F 16.00
    ExposureBiasValue - 0
    MeteringMode - Multi-segment
    Flash - Not fired
    FocalLength - 100 mm
    UserComment -
    SubsecTime - 45
    SubsecTimeOriginal - 45
    SubsecTimeDigitized - 45
    FlashPixVersion - 0100
    ColorSpace - sRGB
    ExifImageWidth - 4896
    ExifImageHeight - 3264
    InteroperabilityOffset - 47364
    FocalPlaneXResolution - 3795.35
    FocalPlaneYResolution - 3904.31
    FocalPlaneResolutionUnit - Inch
    CustomRendered - Normal process
    ExposureMode - Auto
    White Balance - Auto
    SceneCaptureType - Standard

    GPS information: -
    GPSVersionID - 2.2.0.0

    Maker Note (Vendor): -
    Macro mode - Normal
    Self timer - 20/10 sec
    Quality - RAW
    Flash mode - Not fired
    Sequence mode - Single or Timer
    Focus mode - MF
    Image size - Large
    Easy shooting mode - Manual
    Digital zoom - None
    Contrast - Normal
    Saturation - Normal
    Sharpness - Low , -32769
    ISO Value - 32767
    Metering mode - Evaluative
    Focus type - Auto
    AF point selected - 0
    Exposure mode - Av-priority
    Focal length - 100 - 100 mm (1 mm)
    Flash activity - Not fired
    Flash details -
    Focus mode 2 - 65535
    Auto ISO - 100
    Base ISO - 100
    White Balance - Auto
    Sequence number - 0
    Camera Temperature - 31 C
    Flash bias - 0 EV
    Subject Distance - 0.00
    Image Type - Canon EOS-1D Mark IV
    Firmware Version - Firmware Version 1.0.4
    Owner Name -
    Camera Serial Number - 230100050 (0DB703154)
    Sharpness (EOS 1D) - 0
    Directory index (EOS 450D) - 0
    File index (EOS 450D) - 513
    AF point selected - Single-point AF
    Num AF Points - 45
    Valid AF Points - 1
    AF Image Width - 4896
    AF Image Height - 3264
    File number - 000 - 0000
    Sharpness (A0) - 3

    Thumbnail: -
    JpegIFOffset - 49516
    JpegIFByteCount - 14208
    I see the camera model is another as the file link suggested. Just try your own files.
    Using Exiftools or something like that you can extract them both.

    Trev,
    About the used editing. How did you do that. I don't use LR or PS. But I found out that something like exposure correction in post editing isn't always the same.

    George

  15. #15
    DanK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    8,798
    Real Name
    Dan

    Re: Rescued by RAW

    Interesting. one of the sources that is widely cited is lclevy. He (she?) wrote that the NEF format includes a full-size lossy JPEG and that the CR2 includes a number of JPEGs. See http://lclevy.free.fr/nef/ and http://lclevy.free.fr/cr2/. that is rather puzzling given the comments by the tech representatives from Canon and Nikon.

    what seems to be clear is that there is no high-quality full size embedded image.

    I find I am handicapped by not understanding enough of the technical terminology in the documentation I have found.

  16. #16

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    6,956
    Real Name
    Ted

    Re: Rescued by RAW

    FWIW, Sigma raws have full-size embedded JPEGs - of no interest to "most of us" - and there are several apps that can extract them, including the proprietary raw converter. Just sayin'

    However, for your amusement, here's a Foveon image at effectively -3EV (800 ISO) for comparison:

    Rescued by RAW

    Which is why my ISO knob is superglued to 100 ...

  17. #17

    Re: Rescued by RAW

    Hi George:

    First, I capture both the RAW and Full resolution JPG files - it may take up more space but I can whip through the images at home and hone out the ones I don't want from my windows image viewer.

    Having established that they were almost all underexposed I opened up the RAW files using Photoshop Bridge and then went through the process of correcting for the lens etc. I increased the exposure of course, did some minimal sharpening and dehazing and then had to reduce the noise levels a bit. That was about it.
    Lastly, having saved the images as JPG I went into Lightroom and tweaked the size and final exposure settings for my monitor (I don't print at present but do have them as desktop images for my desk monitor and 60in TV screen).

  18. #18

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    6,956
    Real Name
    Ted

    Re: Rescued by RAW

    If we think about it, an accidental shot at -3 EC rescued in post is little different than shooting deliberately at 3 stops higher ISO. No disrespect to your PP effort, Trev.

  19. #19

    Re: Rescued by RAW

    Hey Ted, absolutely none taken. I was just jolly grateful to get my shots back!

  20. #20

    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    amsterdam, netherlands
    Posts
    3,182
    Real Name
    George

    Re: Rescued by RAW

    Quote Originally Posted by Tronhard View Post
    Hi George:

    First, I capture both the RAW and Full resolution JPG files - it may take up more space but I can whip through the images at home and hone out the ones I don't want from my windows image viewer.

    Having established that they were almost all underexposed I opened up the RAW files using Photoshop Bridge and then went through the process of correcting for the lens etc. I increased the exposure of course, did some minimal sharpening and dehazing and then had to reduce the noise levels a bit. That was about it.
    Lastly, having saved the images as JPG I went into Lightroom and tweaked the size and final exposure settings for my monitor (I don't print at present but do have them as desktop images for my desk monitor and 60in TV screen).
    Try IView. It's doing the same as the windows image manager but better, and more.You don't need that extra jpg, resulting in more space using on your memory card, less continous shooting and keeping track of more files. There're other image browsers that do the same and mostly build on the use of Exiftools.

    The other question was about exposure correction in pp. I'm used to CaptureNx2, just 1 file for all recarding all the before, and that behaviour is completely different as what I should expect. It acts more as the middle slider of the levels tool and the extremes, both side clipping, are set kind of by the contrast slider. If the contrast slider is in the right positon, mostly normal, then I can correct between -2 and +2, or 3. I'm on holidays now. Changing between those values will not show clipping. The D750 is not supported in CaptureNx2, so I purchased DxO. Also there the exposure correction is not what I would expect. As somebody that doesn't know what happens.

    George

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •