Windows Photo viewers...some observations

[pschlute]

Having recently moved from windows7 to 10 I have some observations on how the default photo viewers work.

Note, I am using an AdobeRGB capable screen which I have calibrated. For most of my work i use Photoshop/Lightroom and have set up colour management in both those applications.

In windows7 the default application is "Windows Photo Viewer". My experience of this is that it is to a degree colour managed. When i open a sRGB image it is displayed correctly (ie no oversaturated colours). However, if I select the "slideshow" option in the Photo Viewer which displays full-screen, it is no longer colour managed and I see the image become over saturated. The same over saturated images are displayed in the screen-saver slideshow mode. That is not colour managed either and in fact I suspect it is the same application as the Photo Viewer in slideshow mode.

However the way to get images to display correctly in screen-saver slideshow or Photo viewer slideshow in windows7 is to use AdobeRGB tagged images. As the application is not colour manageing the image, it simply displays the AdobeRGB image through my Adobe RGB screen and I get the normal colours.

In windows 10 the default is the "Photos" App. Opening a sRGB image in this shows oversaturated colours in either normal or slideshow mode, so i assume this app is not colour managed at all. Also the windows 10 background slideshow shows the same oversaturation so I assume that is not managed either ( or like windows7, it uses the photos app slideshow mode).

However, this is where it gets interesting. If i open an AdobeRGB image in windows 10 in either the slideshow mode or the desktop slideshow, I see the same oversaturated image. It does not work as things did in windows 7. I am at a loss to understand how this difference can be?

look forward to your thoughts on this.

[dje]

Having recently moved from windows7 to 10 I have some observations on how the default photo viewers work.

Note, I am using an AdobeRGB capable screen which I have calibrated. For most of my work i use Photoshop/Lightroom and have set up colour management in both those applications.

In windows7 the default application is "Windows Photo Viewer". My experience of this is that it is to a degree colour managed. When i open a sRGB image it is displayed correctly (ie no oversaturated colours). However, if I select the "slideshow" option in the Photo Viewer which displays full-screen, it is no longer colour managed and I see the image become over saturated. The same over saturated images are displayed in the screen-saver slideshow mode. That is not colour managed either and in fact I suspect it is the same application as the Photo Viewer in slideshow mode.

However the way to get images to display correctly in screen-saver slideshow or Photo viewer slideshow in windows7 is to use AdobeRGB tagged images. As the application is not colour manageing the image, it simply displays the AdobeRGB image through my Adobe RGB screen and I get the normal colours.

In windows 10 the default is the "Photos" App. Opening a sRGB image in this shows oversaturated colours in either normal or slideshow mode, so i assume this app is not colour managed at all. Also the windows 10 background slideshow shows the same oversaturation so I assume that is not managed either ( or like windows7, it uses the photos app slideshow mode).

However, this is where it gets interesting. If i open an AdobeRGB image in windows 10 in either the slideshow mode or the desktop slideshow, I see the same oversaturated image. It does not work as things did in windows 7. I am at a loss to understand how this difference can be?

look forward to your thoughts on this.

Hi Peter

Interesting observations. I've not used the "Photos" app much as I use FastStone Image Viewer as my default and it is colour managed. However I had a look at Photos with an sRGB image and the same image converted to the Adobe RGB colour space (with embedded profile). Both look identical on my sRGB monitor. This suggests to me that there is some form of colour management going on with the app. However I don't have a wide gamut monitor to test with and it's possible that the Photos app just converts all images to sRGB for display. Maybe it doesn't inter-work with the monitor profile. Can you set your monitor to sRGB and see what happens?

Windows 10 incorporates apps as well as programs. The apps are stored in a special folder. Photos is an app rather than a program whereas Windows Photo Viewer is a program. I think apps are designed for use with Windows tablets as well as PC's and are Microsoft's way of competing with iPads and Android devices. This may have some bearing on the provision of full colour management, I don't know.

Dave

[pschlute]

Hi Peter

I use FastStone Image Viewer as my default and it is colour managed.

Thanks for replying.

I downloaded Fastone and it made no difference. Apparently the colour management does not work with wide gamut monitors I discovered after a bit of googling.

However I had a look at Photos with an sRGB image and the same image converted to the Adobe RGB colour space (with embedded profile). Both look identical on my sRGB monitor.

I am no expert on this subject but I think that is what one would expect to happen.

I have no problem at all when viewing/editing in Silkypix raw converter, or Photoshop or Lightroom. They all display the image correctly. If I upload the jpegs (sRGB) to the web and view them in Firefox browser with the colour management settings enabled in Firefox they also display correctly.

It is just frustrating that a simple photo viewer cannot do the same. Anyone have any other suggestions of what I might try ?

[Manfred M]

Apparently the colour management does not work with wide gamut monitors I discovered after a bit of googling.

I would dispute that as I have been using a wide gamut screen for close to a decade; I'm on my second wide gamut screen now. I can set mine to work in sRGB or AdobeRGB mode if I want to. I work in both colour spaces as well as in ProPhoto RGB.

I remember using an earlier version of the MS Photo Viewer in class and I have no idea what it was doing. The colours, including sRGB ones were not displaying properly and ever since, I avoid using MS imaging software.

[pschlute]

Think i may have found one. "Fast Picture Viewer Pro" seems to do the job (sort of)

if you enable colour management and monitor profiles in the settings then it honours the tagged profiles.

It doesnt display TIFF files but hey ho.

[pschlute]

I would dispute that as I have been using a wide gamut screen for close to a decade; I'm on my second wide gamut screen now. I can set mine to work in sRGB or AdobeRGB mode if I want to. I work in both colour spaces as well as in ProPhoto RGB.

Interesting. Can you link to a download site Manfred in case I downloaded an old version. Ticking the box in settings for colour management did not work for me. This is where I found the admittedly old posts about Fastone not taking into account a monitor profile https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/60839308

[Manfred M]

Interesting. Can you link to a download site Manfred in case I downloaded an old version. Ticking the box in settings for colour management did not work for me. This is where I found the admittedly old posts about Fastone not taking into account a monitor profile https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/60839308

Unless you have the same screen that I do, there is no such link. The change control is hardware, rather than software, driven for my screen a Benq SW2700.

[pschlute]

Unless you have the same screen that I do, there is no such link.

The link I am referring to is a download link. I downloaded Fastone from here http://faststone.org/

Despite enabling colour management in the settings, it just did not honour my tagged images. Fast Picture Viewer pro however does.

I use EIZO CS 2730

[Manfred M]

The link I am referring to is a download link. I downloaded Fastone from here http://faststone.org/

Despite enabling colour management in the settings, it just did not honour my tagged images. Fast Picture Viewer pro however does.

I use EIZO CS 2730

Sorry. I'm not the one who recommended FastStone. I've tried it and was not particularly impressed with it and do not use it.

[dje]

"However I had a look at Photos with an sRGB image and the same image converted to the Adobe RGB colour space (with embedded profile). Both look identical on my sRGB monitor."

I am no expert on this subject but I think that is what one would expect to happen.

Only if the software actually looks for the embeded profile and converts the image to sRGB if necessary. Some viewing software doesn't even do that! (It just assumes it's sRGB). It appears that this "partial" form of CM is what happens with FastStone Viewer. Interesting to find that out as I would never have discovered that not having a wide gamut monitor. It relies on the monitor being pretty close to sRGB which mine is.

I've actually just started to use ACDSee Pro for viewing/browsing as well as editing and I believe it is fully colour managed but I'll have to check that (I'll change the monitor profile drastically to see if it is being used!)

Dave

[pschlute]

I can remember getting a headache when i first looked at colour management over a decade ago. In the passing years my ageing brain has not managed to make too much headway into the subject

[dje]

I can remember getting a headache when i first looked at colour management over a decade ago. In the passing years my ageing brain has not managed to make too much headway into the subject

I know the feeling

[xpatUSA]

Hi, I'm also creating photos via iPhone for instagram. I am looking for a pleasant and comfortable application for working with photos

I can recommend:

FastStone Viewer for quick and dirty edits. Very good comparator for culling out bad images. Can convert many but not all raws or just use the embedded JPEG (your choice). Free but donation appreciated.

XnView is a slightly better editor but has a less friendly User Interface. Can do batching and allows extensive meta-data editing (IPTC and/or XMP). Excellent Search Engine in the latest version.

I use either one to good effect. I also have Photo Mechanic but it's pretty expensive.

[loosecanon]

One can download and use Adobe Bridge for free (registration required) which enables easy identification of imagess and the single key (spaacebar) full screen display.