Nikon D500 to replace Nikon D7000?

[brucehughw]

Hi, everyone.

I'm considering purchasing a D500. I shoot small scale landscapes, symphony musicians (during rehearsals, so I can get close and move around), and candids of parents and children. So nothing too demanding (not much sports or birds), although I may start photographing ballet dancers. The D500's AF has gotten great reviews, and I feel like I'm missing too many shots with the D7000, where the conductor (they move a lot) is often not tack sharp. I'm starting to exhibit, so high-quality images are a must. Anyone have any positive or negative comments re the switch I'm thinking about?

Thanks! Bruce

[Shadowman]

Hi Bruce,

Would help if you could post some images of shots you are not happy with, it would help us to know what shooting settings you used, which lens, and which focusing mode you used. Regarding the camera upgrade, I've never shot with the D7000 but I believe the camera received good reviews, for the D500 I have shot with this camera a few times and it is a pretty good system and it has also received good reviews.

[brucehughw]

Hi, John.

Sure. Here are three images:



The first one (percussionist) has ok focus. The second one (tuba) has pretty good focus. I'm just including it to show some of the challenging lighting situations I encounter. The third one is the conductor - poor focus. I often shoot in the single-shot AF mode, where I focus on something and then recompose. Maybe that's the wrong technique with the moving conductor. On the other hand, the conductor shot was pretty straightforward: he paused, he was in the center of the frame, I focused, and I took the photo. I meant to try the continuous mode when I last shot. Thanks for your help/interest.

[Polar01]

I would suggest that you learn to use Back Button Focusing. A good video, easy to understand was done by Steve Perry see link, https://backcountrygallery.com/af-on...ton-autofocus/
once you learn the method, not hard, no more point focus then recompose, you can often miss the distance this way you will not. The D500 has a great autofocus system, better sensor, that said I think that learning BBF will help to improve your keeper rate.


Cheers: Allan

[brucehughw]

Hi, Allan.

I used to do BBF. I've sort of switched to the shutter button and then holding the "back button" so that it doesn't change the focus when I recompose (actually, it seems to allow me to take the photo when I recompose without refocusing). Re BBF, I'd still need to have the focus point close to where I'd like it, but that would also be true with the D500. One of the things I read about the D500 is the ease with which one can set the AF point. Anyway, how do you think BBF would improve my keeper rate?

Thank you, Bruce

I would suggest that you learn to use Back Button Focusing. A good video, easy to understand was done by Steve Perry see link, https://backcountrygallery.com/af-on...ton-autofocus/
once you learn the method, not hard, no more point focus then recompose, you can often miss the distance this way you will not. The D500 has a great autofocus system, better sensor, that said I think that learning BBF will help to improve your keeper rate.


Cheers: Allan

[Manfred M]

Bruce - when I look at your cameras metadata (85mm lens shot at f/2 at 1/160 s) using single point focus, you've done everything stacked in your favour to nail the focus. I use a slight variant of your technique (single focus point with back-button focus with AF-C) in these types of situations.

The D7000 is getting a bit long in the tooth, but most of the technological changes I see in the newer cameras have refined lower aperture and more complex autofocus algorithms, so I'm really not sure if a more modern body would solve this issue.

My wife and I just went through a very similar thought process in what camera to replace her ancient D90. The D500 and the D7500 both came up for consideration. Both use the same sensor and same AF system and in the end we ended up deciding on the D7500 as it ticked more of the right boxes for her than the D500 (trade-off of functionality versus additional cost of the D500). Ultimately, for her, the deciding factor was that she didn't need dual card slots, ability to add a battery handle and the significantly lower weight of the D7500 vs the D500, so we went for the D7500.

[brucehughw]

Hi, Allan.

I watched the video. Thanks. I'll give it a try. I hope the focus point will move as I recompose, or I may need to select more points, 9 or 21, in the AF-C mode.

Bruce

[brucehughw]

Hi, Manfred.

Thanks you for adding to the discussion. When you used the single focus point with back-button focus with AF-C and recompose, does that single point follow along? For example, I have the focus point in the center, I focus on the conductor, but now I want him 1/3 in from the left and top. If I hold the button down and recompose, will the camera continue trying to keep him (usually a he) sharp? Also, what do you mean by "refined lower aperture?" Lastly, does the 7500 have the same AF system as the 500? I've read that the 500 has Nikon's best AF system, the same as used on the D5. Bruce

Bruce - when I look at your cameras metadata (85mm lens shot at f/2 at 1/160 s) using single point focus, you've done everything stacked in your favour to nail the focus. I use a slight variant of your technique (single focus point with back-button focus with AF-C) in these types of situations.

The D7000 is getting a bit long in the tooth, but most of the technological changes I see in the newer cameras have refined lower aperture and more complex autofocus algorithms, so I'm really not sure if a more modern body would solve this issue.

My wife and I just went through a very similar thought process in what camera to replace her ancient D90. The D500 and the D7500 both came up for consideration. Both use the same sensor and same AF system and in the end we ended up deciding on the D7500 as it ticked more of the right boxes for her than the D500 (trade-off of functionality versus additional cost of the D500). Ultimately, for her, the deciding factor was that she didn't need dual card slots, ability to add a battery handle and the significantly lower weight of the D7500 vs the D500, so we went for the D7500.

[Manfred M]

Hi, Manfred.

Thanks you for adding to the discussion. When you used the single focus point with back-button focus with AF-C and recompose, does that single point follow along? For example, I have the focus point in the center, I focus on the conductor, but now I want him 1/3 in from the left and top. If I hold the button down and recompose, will the camera continue trying to keep him (usually a he) sharp?

There will be a very slight change in the actual focus plane, based on moving the camera. In practice, especially at the focal length / subject distance you are shooting at, it makes no difference. If you are very close to your subject (head shot or closer) at a very wide aperture, a bit more caution is required. I tend to shoot those types of images at f/5.6 or narrower apertures just to make sure.

Also, what do you mean by "refined lower aperture?"

The D7000 autofocus system was designed for lenses that had a maximum aperture of f/5.6 or faster. The newer cameras handled lenses that have a maximum aperture of f/8 or faster. That really only affects some of the really long telephoto lenses. My wife's D90 had trouble shooting at 500mm with her Sigma f5.6 -f/6.3 150mm - 500mm lens in some lighting conditions. My D800 / 810 did not have the same issue.

Lastly, does the 7500 have the same AF system as the 500? I've read that the 500 has Nikon's best AF system, the same as used on the D5. Bruce

My research found that the D7500 and D500 use the same sensor and same autofocus mechanism. Nikon (and in fact all camera makers) tend to use the same technology as much as possible in the same generation of cameras as it cuts down on development and manufacturing costs.

[Polar01]

Bruce to your post #7, you state "I hope the focus point will move as I recompose", I believe that the statement is incorrect. You do not want the focus distance to change when you recompose. I will use the conductor as an example, using BBF you focus on the conductor, take finger off the button that you use to focus, now as you shoot the conductor placed in different positions in the viewfinder as long as you yourself have not moved the conductor should always be in at the correct focus distance.

Cheers: Allan

[george013]

A 85 mm lens, f/2 and a assumed distance of 5m gives a dof of 27cm. Focussing on a moving subject and then recompose is asking for trouble. Recomposing itself is changing the focal plane with an amount depending on your angle of recomposing. Try to change your focus point before focussing, you might even use af-c than.

George

[Manfred M]

A 85 mm lens, f/2 and a assumed distance of 5m gives a dof of 27cm. Focussing on a moving subject and then recompose is asking for trouble. Recomposing itself is changing the focal plane with an amount depending on your angle of recomposing. Try to change your focus point before focussing, you might even use af-c than.

George

George - unless there is a great deal of movement by the subject, then the technique Bruce is using is quite solid. It's a technique I and many other photographers use all the time. In fact almost 100% of the images I have posted for at least the last 5 or 6 years, especially of people, were done this way. Focusing on the eye nearest to the subject and recomposing is a very common and very accurate technique. My success rate of sharp focus is much higher than using some of the other autofocus techniques that the cameras have available.

Traditionally all of the high end, medium format cameras like Phase One and Hasselblad had this as the only focus mode (I'm not sure what some of the newer, lower end medium models do) and in full medium format, the depth of field is even shallower than in an APS-C crop camera.

With a 27cm DoF, a lot of movement can be tolerated before the focus goes soft. As I mentioned in #9, my experience suggests what you write regarding the angle of recomposition, is not an issue other than some extreme close up images at very wide apertures.

[brucehughw]

Hi, Allan, George, and Manfred. Thank you for your comments and clarification. These all help. I think I'll upgrade. As far as the AF, my ideal system is one that would let me focus on, say, the conductor, and then as I recompose the camera would keep him in focus. Probably the more AF points I include in the AF-C setup (1 vs 25 vs even more), the better the camera will do this. The D500 will for sure do this better than the D7000.

[Manfred M]

Hi, Allan, George, and Manfred. Thank you for your comments and clarification. These all help. I think I'll upgrade. As far as the AF, my ideal system is one that would let me focus on, say, the conductor, and then as I recompose the camera would keep him in focus. Probably the more AF points I include in the AF-C setup (1 vs 25 vs even more), the better the camera will do this. The D500 will for sure do this better than the D7000.

Bruce - let me disagree with your statement. More autofocus points will actually make things worse, especially in this shooting environment. With a single autofocus point the photographer is in charge and can precisely position where the camera should focus. Once you go to 25 points, the camera algorithms take over and are more likely to screw up. Regardless of the number of focus points the camera uses, there is still only one focus plane.

There are a lot of good reasons to upgrade your camera, but for this type of shot, l strongly suspect your existing technique is most likely to give you the focus point you’re looking for. The upgraded technology will help.

[brucehughw]

Hi, Manfred. Thanks again for commenting. I follow your logic and accept it. Re "lots of good reasons," do you mind sharing a few? I want to make a purchase for the right reasons.

[Polar01]

Bruce the more focus points in use the greater the likely hood that the camera will select the wrong one you want as Manfred as stated. Go back to the Steve Perry video, I purchased his book on the Nikon auto-focus system. It was see worth the approx. $19.00 US as it let understand the auto-focus system of my D850, it covers all the Nikon cameras. Again well worth the money.
Cheers: Allan

[Manfred M]

Hi, Manfred. Thanks again for commenting. I follow your logic and accept it. Re "lots of good reasons," do you mind sharing a few? I want to make a purchase for the right reasons.

The D7000 came out in 2010, so the technology is over 8 years old; the D500 is about 3 years old and the D7500 is about 18 months old. The D500 / D7500 technology in sensor and various subsystems has improved, so one should expect these improvements to give you better performance.

[billtils]

Bruce

Why not go for a low mileage used D810?

[brucehughw]

Got it. Thank you! I haven't posted in CiC for a while. This is a great group. I'll spend more time here.

[brucehughw]

Hi, Bill.

I don't need the full frame sensor. The 500 is newer and the AF appears better.

https://www.imaging-resource.com/cam...vs/nikon/d500/

Bruce

Why not go for a low mileage used D810?