2019 P52 - 1st Qtr - Sandy(Skitterbug)

[skitterbug]

Sandy

Yes it does have a stacking routine. I thought it was quite good until I looked more seriously at Zerene ...

Hi Bill - I think if I ever seriously want to stack more than a couple of images, I may have to check Zerene out.Hopefully they give a trial period of use as some more serious software will do? One thing that is nice is that there have been good reviews of it by the members who use it. That's a plus!

Thanks for commenting!

[skitterbug]

It doesn't matter what image format you are using, the process steps should still be the same. If you are using JPEGs you will have less data to work with (8-bit per channel versus 14-bits per channel for raw data). You will also the white balance (colour temperature data) and the colour space you are using "baked in" to the file.

Hi Manfred - Early on, I didn't realize this but eventually came to understand the difference between RAW and JPEG files.

If you are using raw data, it is NEVER changed by Lightroom. It stores any edits in either a sidecar (.xmp) or in the catalog, depending on how you have Lightroom set up. You can't overwrite the raw data. If you are using image files, for instance JPEG or TIFF, then these are overwritten.

The fact that Lightroom doesn't harm RAW data is good to know. I am the suspicious sort about software's claims and because of my earlier problems, I became very cautious about protecting original image files.

I appreciate the added info!

[skitterbug]

I shall follow your 2019 Project with great interest, Sandy, as I have been atttempting to codify my own PP workflow in recent months having recently embraced Lightroom for most of it and transferring to Photoshop if/when necessary. Others here are in a far better position to advise than I am, but I am sure i shall chip in along the way.

Good luck with your 2019 project!

Hi David - I believe being involved in a P52 Image Project has really helped my learning experience. I don't think you'll regret the time involved. I've also found that even though most of my images are of things around our home, the images I take gives me experience in composing, lighting, etc. Practice helps me lots!

Hope you enjoy doing it and I look forward to seeing your work!

[skitterbug]

Sandy, no, I do not use the subscription LR or Photoshop. I use LR6+ and Photoshop CS6.

I purchased CS6 before the subscription version was introduced and have had no need to abandon it. One day I’ll probably acquire a camera that LR6+ won’t work with but until then I’m saving money every month by using my existing paid for software. I did the arithmetic when I needed to upgrade from LR5 (or perhaps 4). It was clear I’d relatively quickly be ahead of the game by paying the one time upgrade cost versus the monthly subscription fee.

Hi Bruce - Yep, I do remember that you have LR6 now since you reminded me. And lucky you for having PS CS6. There was good stuff wrapped up in that version. I was very sorry to see the direction the software company took when it decided to make it a web based application. And yes, eventually new cameras and new software will become necessary to keep up with changing conditions. Whether I'll still be able to manage such stuff when the time comes, is anyone's guess. For now I plan on enjoying what I have!

Thanks for replying!

[skitterbug]

Week 1 - I've been struggling to find something to use as a subject and finally decided the poinsettia would have to work. I used a new Oben tripod to raise the camera over the flower. This was taken in our kitchen so the lighting is a bit suspect.

So steps:
1. find the black material that I'd put away somewhere.......
2. arrange the flower to show a single group
3. set up the tripod and camera. (I tried 3 different lens and finally decided to use the 100-400 lens)
4. took many pictures and finally decided on this one for my project
5. I'd reviewed them in Digital Photo Professional (DPP)
6. Moved the raw file into Affinity Photo
7. adjusted the exposure
8. adjusted the blackpoint
9. adjusted the contrast
10. chose the develop mode of Affinity Photo
11. Didn't do overmuch here except to sharpen the center of the poinsettia
12. I also cloned out the unwanted areas

Exported and I considered it done.

I won't list all the faffing about with set up, DDP, etc. anymore. I've decided that photography is not only capturing images but forced exercise as well! Lots of up and down to get the setup that I wanted.

Enjoy! And of course comments will always be appreciated!

Original photo - f/6.3 - 1/100 - ISO8000 (A very gloomy day)



Finished Poinsettia

[billtils]

Sandy

You have certainly achieved your desired goal here. However (and you knew there was a "however" coming, didn't you ) I prefer the colours in the original - perhaps desaturate the final image a bit and see what you think?

I was a wee bit curious about the EXIF data - it may have been a dull day, but with the camera on a tripod why not go for a longer exposure and reduce the ISO?

[Rufus]

I also wondered about the high ISO, Sandy; perhaps the camera was set to auto ISO?

You are looking to develop a workflow and have set out what you did this time. I notice that you do not mention lens corrections, assuming Affinity Photo has this option. Rightly or wrongly, lens corrections are the first thing I do in RAW.

The finished Pointsettia image seems to have more yellow both in the reds and in the white/cream markings on the leaves. Might a small adjustment to the white balance help with this?

I notice that the leaves appear to have lost some of the depth of the veins. Maybe a slight change to the saturation or contrast would help? Or maybe they need some very localised work of some description along each vein to bring them out?

The cloning seems to have worked well. I assume a plain black background in the finished image was one of your objectives rather than just a by-product of your processing?

I was interested that you chose to sharpen the centre, and wondered why you did this. It is not particularly noticeable (which is "a good thing" in my book for any adjustment). Was it to overcome a perceived issue with DOF or something else?

Sorry, lots of questions and few answers due to my limited PP skills; but it is good to know that more experienced contributors will help out.

I am looking forward to the next 51 weeks of your project.

[billtils]

I notice that you do not mention lens corrections, assuming Affinity Photo has this option.

David

AP will apply automatic lens correction during raw development provided that the lens is in the lensfun database. Manual correction is available for other lenses.

[dnperfors]

Hi Sandy,
Struggling to find a subject is what made me stop the last time. Hopefully you’ll get enough inspiration for the next 51 weeks
Picture wise, I do like the final image, although the colors are too saturated to my taste. Beside that you could probably have gotten a similar result (especially the background changes) with less preprocessing by using a smaller aperture and a flash, a low key photo. (Disclaimer, I only read about it last week and didn’t do it myself yet.)

[rudi]

Hi Sandy,

Week 1 : Poinsettia.
Your original shot is fine with a bit off a yellow color cast, but nice contrast and detail to start with.
BUT, yes there is always a but...For my taste, I think you were a bit 'heavy handed' in the finished version. Iff this look was your intention please ignore the following....;) In your finished version you blew out the red channel, lost contrast and nearly all detail is gone....Just my 2 cent...
With your permission, I will give it a try and post it here....

[DanK]

It's a little hard to tell at this low resolution, but it looks to me as though Rudi is right and that you blew out the red channel. This is a common problem with intensely red flowers.

the problem may be in this innocent-seeming line:

9. adjusted the contrast

If you adjust the contrast with many tools, you are simultaneously increasing saturation, which is often part of the problem with images like this. One thing one can do to avoid this in some software (one can do it in Photoshop but not in Lightroom) is to use a luminance-only blend mode for the contrast adjustment.

To show you the difference, I took your original image and increased contrast using a curve. I used the exact same curve in both; I simply duplicated the layer. However, I used different blend modes. This one uses normal blend mode:



While this one applies the same curve using a luminosity blend mode:



The difference in saturation is obvious.

In any case, I would always look at a histogram showing all three color channels separately for images like this.

[Shadowman]

Nice subject to challenge yourself, I like the second because it has less distracting background.

[skitterbug]

This is a two part reply to the suggestions made. I want to put two different posts here rather than have it all jammed into one reply. So first off, I'm glad for the questions and the assessments made of the image in post #25 (week1). Believe me, it is very helpful and I appreciate the help lots!

So taking suggestions to heart, I did go back and try PP again on the first poinsettia. I totally agree that the red is blown, etc. and looking at the original, it seems flawed because of the settings I used as well as the PP attempt.

I'm hoping someone can tell me how to make the black background look "black" without affecting the rest of the image? I know that isn't entirely the cause of the oversaturation but it is frustrating not knowing how others can adjust that area and still have "normal looking" subjects?

My attempt to correct the oversaturation, etc.

[skitterbug]

Hi David (Rufus) - I don't normally do much about lens correction but I do have the ability to work with it in Affinity Photo's Raw development area, if I choose to do so.
I agree about the white/yellow problem and I think this next image I'm posting, will show a truer color pattern.
I enjoy cloning out imperfections and have become better at using this post processing tool. So if it doesn't change an image "truthfulness", I will remove unnecessary items or flaws.
The reason I sharpened the center of the poinsettia is because I liked the bit of detail in that area.

Rudi - You are welcome to show what you have in mind by adjusting any photo that I put in this thread as well as anyone else who would like to do so. I am a visual learner especially when it is accompanied with "how to do it" info!

Dan - So I compounded the problem by piling on adjustments..... The second photo you improved looks better indeed. Histograms are helpful but I haven't learned to use them as well as you do. My post processing goal this year is that I do need to have a better workflow, making what corrections I feel I need without layering on unnecessary changes by using too many "tools" (Huge sigh)

John - I'm still wondering how to make the black, really black, without changing the rest of the image? This type of photo genre is definitely a challenge. Nature subjects seem much easier......

Both Bill, David (Rufus) and David (dnperfors) suggested that I use the new tripod to better advanatage and to set the speed, ISO, etc. to more appropriate levels.

It is still dull winter weather, snowing even, and this doesn't lend much to cheerful lighting. For this image, I changed to the EF-S 24mm f/2.8 and my settings ended up being f/4 - 0.3ss - ISO100.

Hopefully it is better. Let me know!

Before editing:



After PP work:

[dnperfors]

I'm hoping someone can tell me how to make the black background look "black" without affecting the rest of the image?

With most software you can make local changes to an image by creating a mask for the background, that way you can easily change the settings for your background only.

[skitterbug]

With most software you can make local changes to an image by creating a mask for the background, that way you can easily change the settings for your background only.

Hi David - Affinity Photo does provide masks, but I haven't mastered that very well yet. when I try isolating a background and adjusting it, I'll end up with a tiny outline around the part that I didn't adjust. There has to be something I'm missing about this technique but I'll keep at it. Maybe eventually something will "click" and I'll get it figured out.

Thanks for replying!

[rudi]

Hi Sandy,

Your rework in post #33 is indeed less saturated. I think the bracts are more pinkisk red than deep red, but I can be wrong off course. Tweeking contrast with curves even in luminosity mode increases saturation a bit. The red color easily gets saturated IMO. So, I usually ad a de-saturation adjustment layer, to help overcome this 'problem'. Removing the yellowish tinge would also be helpfull.
I think there is still a bit off a yellow cast though, while in post#34 there is a bit off a bluish cast IMO. Which lead me to the question, have you shot a white balance card ??

In post #34, I would deal with the bluish color cast, and I think that the background cloth adds a bit off intrest....

[MerleP]

What an interesting photo and discussion about lighting. I've found the easiest way to get the background dark and not affect the subject is to light the subject and keep the background away a bit. Use artificial lighting to more easily control both the background and the subject. Adjusting your shadows and blacks will also help.

[Manfred M]

Merle has suggested the first solution that I tend to rely on when I want a dark background in a studio setting.

An artificial light source that is large, relative to the subject, will provide light is soft and diffuse. This means that the light is very close to the subject. In much of my work my lights are either just outside of the camera frame but sometimes I need to retouch bits of it out. With this setup, one has an added benefit when it comes to light falloff (also known as the inverse square law), as the light toward the background just drops of quite quickly. The farther the light source is from the subject, the slower the drop off is.

If you set up your lighting and camera correctly, your background will come out black, without any need to manipulate it in PP. Using a black background will help, but if one has the distance in a dark room, any background will come out looking dark.

[skitterbug]

Hi Sandy,

Your rework in post #33 is indeed less saturated. I think the bracts are more pinkisk red than deep red, but I can be wrong off course. Tweeking contrast with curves even in luminosity mode increases saturation a bit. The red color easily gets saturated IMO. So, I usually ad a de-saturation adjustment layer, to help overcome this 'problem'. Removing the yellowish tinge would also be helpfull.
I think there is still a bit off a yellow cast though, while in post#34 there is a bit off a bluish cast IMO. Which lead me to the question, have you shot a white balance card ??

In post #34, I would deal with the bluish color cast, and I think that the background cloth adds a bit off intrest....

Hi Rudi - I have a white balance card but didn't use it for this project. I also have to admit that I don't see the bluish cast that you do. I struggle with inside projects so I'll pay attention to the next time I try this. Thanks for commenting!

ps: appreciate your comment about the background cloth. I felt it was better than seeing carpet or counter top as a background<smile>